Paulstw Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I don't normally reach out for help in fear of getting my fingers chewed off, however, I do feel these days I'm going backward with photography. Namely in a photo-journalistic sense. I'm purely self taught of three years now. I landed on the news thing by accident and I'm not really qualified enough to call myself a photojournalist. In fact it's an insult to those who are, if I was to give myself that label. It's the situations I sometimes find myself in that gets me the shots. I know my area well enough to know when there's something not right. I go and investigate and more often than not there's something there to document. However, I do feel I've been dropping the ball a lot on the story telling aspects of the shots lately. Is it something you just learn through your mistakes or is it one of these "you're just born with it" things? I'm not really sure I'm getting any better from a photographic sense. Yes I have a better camera and invested in good glass, which has resulted in cleaner images and better reproduction of the scene, however, one abundant truth seems to be that the actual images don't seem to have much weight to them, and it's annoying me to no end, and I have no idea how to fix it. Is there training? Useful books? Willing to try new approaches to what's been a very stale run of late. Appreciate the time to read. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dov makabaw Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Having decent gear is always helpful as these are the prerequisite tools of our trade. If there was a magic wand then we would all be using it. With ever increasing quantities of photographers in a market where prices are shrinking and expectations are dropping it is difficult to see where and how to make your mark. A distinctive style or niche sector in the market can help make a name. Looking at images of successful photographers in your field may help. Perseverance and luck will both help. Good luck - dov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulstw Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 Having decent gear is always helpful as these are the prerequisite tools of our trade. If there was a magic wand then we would all be using it. With ever increasing quantities of photographers in a market where prices are shrinking and expectations are dropping it is difficult to see where and how to make your mark. A distinctive style or niche sector in the market can help make a name. Looking at images of successful photographers in your field may help. Perseverance and luck will both help. Good luck - dov Aye the gear is only a percentage of the outcome. It's likely going to take years to master this art, and even then it will reveal new challenges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radharcimages Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Paul, look up the 10,000 hour rule. Its an idea but its not far off the mark. As for training, books etc. Look at how you progressed in your day job, mentoring, evaluation, feedback, measures, results, training, books. See how much of that is actually training (courses) and books. Very little. Nothing prepares you for your first peer review. I remember my first code review when I was first out of university, I had a degree and was completely shattered by it. Wind forward 10 years and sitting in the editors office when I got my first months review there. I learned more in both those hours than I ever did in courses, magazines, books and going around taking photos on my own. Its the thing a lot of people who buy cameras and go out and take photos dont think about. Books, research, internet articles and training courses can only go so far (this coming from someone who offers portfolio reviews, 1-1 training courses and who until recently taught photography as part of a degree path). Real life situations where your livelihood or if you can pay the mortgage next month focus the mind, the art, the craft more than anything. As an aspiring photojournalist sitting in a news room is a sobering experience and an invaluable one as you learn the type of photos that get used and why they get used. Its a feedback loop whereas supplying stock (without regular good sales) is just pushing things out into the ether. Similarly full time photographers with real life clients will have that feedback loop because their clients will be similar to those who license stock photography and its a matter of adapting that knowledge to stock. When looking at the images from other photographers, people forget that a lot of the times those images are driven by particular clients wishes, wants, styles etc so that might be red herring as one client will see something and then want the opposite because they dont want theirs to look like a competitors, conversely Ive had work from clients within a particular field because I shoot for the opposition. Its hard to know! Of course if you add in economics then its easier to decide when you should be out taking photos with your camera of if you should be inside watching the football. Every time I leave the house it has an associated cost in terms of the business in percentage of fixed costs and hard costs after closing the door. That is the real key to deciding what is worth going out and covering. Theres also knowledge that stories can get trumped, like for instance a well known football nation getting hammered in the world cup semi final which puts a lot of the stories which would have run before 9:36 last night out of the column inches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Endicott Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 It's not about the gear. Many photojournalists these days are using simple iPhones to illustrate the story. Experience is a good part of it. Learning to walk up to strangers and talk to them asking their name and such is also very intimidating. Learning to talk with them is also a learned skill. The BBC Academy recently released training videos to the public. Maybe they will help? I intend to go through them (haven't had a chance yet). http://petapixel.com/2014/07/08/bbc-opens-internal-visual-journalism-training-resources-public/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/academy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jill Morgan Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 i haven't submitted to the news yet, so if I have some assumptions wrong, please correct me. I looked at the set you have for the overflowing river. Although you specify Glasgow, you don't specify exactly where in Glasgow that particular shot was taken. On the people on strike, and on the ones with the tree on the car, often the caption has nothing to do with the photograph as the captions are the same for the whole series. And on the tree on the car, you don't mention the street. As Ed mentioned, having people's names, such as those on strike, or the car driver (if possible) would also help. I assume (there's that word again) that when you upload to news, every picture gets the same caption in the set. Maybe upload only those that match the caption as a set and do a separate upload for the photos that require a different caption. Remember those age old newspaperman's questions - who, what, when, where, why and how. Jill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Rooney Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 In the words of Bill Clinton, Paul: I feel your pain. And some advice to heed would be PJ Robert Capa's one-liner: "If your pictures aren't good enough, you're not close enough." Simple but true. This is the Magnum site: http://www.magnumphotos.com/C.aspx?VP3=CMS3&VF=MAGO31_14 If you look at the work of the masters -- Ian Berry, Capa, Cartier Bresson, Elliott Erwitt, Burt Glinn, W. Eugene Smith and the many others -- you can ask yourself about the difference between what they did and what you are doing. The snaps you have of the vendor in the greengrocer's with the witche's mask and the passing shoppers shows that you do get it; this shows that you're capable of being intuitive with situations. I would guess that Mr. Capa would consider that your shots of the police and the storm aftermath are . . . not close enough. You will get better if you keep at it. I see promise. There's no reason to get down on yourself. Good luck, Edo (Me? It's been a very long time since I've done any PJ work.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulstw Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 Cheers folks Jill, for the purposes of the news feed all comments, captions and headings need to be the exact same for the images to group together. More often than not it's tied to a particular event so I just keep them the same in my library. Ed I have been looking at the work of other greats lately. Don McCullin, Robert Capa, and Bresson. Also been watching some work on Bruce Gilden and trying to find a common rail to work off. They all possess excellent traits and more often than not they were able to get right into the thick of it. I do have my days where I just go out and ask for folks pics. It's a small number of times but it's getting more frequent. I'm still early days I guess, but sometimes you take a punch to the gut and it takes a while to get back up lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jill Morgan Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Cheers folks Jill, for the purposes of the news feed all comments, captions and headings need to be the exact same for the images to group together. More often than not it's tied to a particular event so I just keep them the same in my library. But does that not render some of the photos useless as the caption and photo don't match? What is the point in uploading a news image if the caption is not describing the scene? Not being difficult, just trying to help. Jill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 IPTC captions can be different. From what I remember the other day, Alamy themselves wrote the caption which appears above the thumbnail on the live news page. As long as the first few words of the IPTC headline are the same the images group together as one set. My headlines weren't identical except for the place and date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulstw Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 Cheers folks Jill, for the purposes of the news feed all comments, captions and headings need to be the exact same for the images to group together. More often than not it's tied to a particular event so I just keep them the same in my library. But does that not render some of the photos useless as the caption and photo don't match? What is the point in uploading a news image if the caption is not describing the scene? Not being difficult, just trying to help. Jill As far as I can tell all the news images I have submitted have accurate captions for the event. Maybe not on a per image basis now, but at the time it was accurate. I probably should go round and change them but I'm selling a couple a month now so haven't thought about it. It was more to do with having less images but with a stronger impact. There's a few on here that just nail it everytime on the news feed. I'd like to be consistent with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Another thing- Alamy edit captions to accord more closely with the news guidelines. They do a good job of it very quickly- they must have worn out a few keyboards on Monday afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Clemson Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 It's not about the gear. Many photojournalists these days are using simple iPhones to illustrate the story. Experience is a good part of it. Learning to walk up to strangers and talk to them asking their name and such is also very intimidating. Learning to talk with them is also a learned skill. The BBC Academy recently released training videos to the public. Maybe they will help? I intend to go through them (haven't had a chance yet). http://petapixel.com/2014/07/08/bbc-opens-internal-visual-journalism-training-resources-public/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/academy Thanks Ed for the pointers to this material. I've not looked for photography related stuff yet but I found a 30 minute discussion 'Shooting for the Edit' in the BBC TV production/Self Shooting section and I've learned more about what I should be doing in stock video production in that 30 minutes than I did in the previous seven years where I've actually been shooting video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Thompson Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Hi, How did you get on with Pholio? Did they provide any constructive ideas? I'm afraid I cannot help with the news side of things as my sucess has also been limited. Just keep plugging away, it will come Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Brooks Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Paul you have to struggle in order to master any domain. Once you master the domain you have to keep struggling in order to stay a master. Rome was not built in a day. Your attitude is great. Learn something every time you take an image, and eventually you will see results. Once you get results, keep struggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Endicott Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 ...some advice to heed would be PJ Robert Capa's one-liner: "If your pictures aren't good enough, you're not close enough." Simple but true.... Just some ramblings about this quote..... I want to caution that it is one of the most mis-interpreted quotes from Capa. By being "close" he didn't mean getting up in someone's face with a 16-35 lens (I've actually seen a PJ do this...at a memorial service...to a member of the U.S. Military who was mourning the death of a fellow soldier that occured earlier in the day. I cringed). Capa meant get close to the subject....shoot what you are passionate about....shoot with interest. Don't just take snap shots at a newsworthy event. I thought about this a lot when I covered PrideFest here in Denver. I don't think I did as good of a job as I could have because 1) I'm not gay and I'm not familiar with the culture, and 2) I felt that many of the participants were not really "genuine" in their participation. That affected what I delivered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Rooney Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 "I want to caution that it is one of the most mis-interpreted quotes from Capa. By being "close" he didn't mean getting up in someone's face with a 16-35 lens (I've actually seen a PJ do this...at a memorial service...to a member of the U.S. Military who was mourning the death of a fellow soldier that occurred earlier in the day. I cringed). Capa meant get close to the subject....shoot what you are passionate about....shoot with interest. Don't just take snap shots at a newsworthy event." -- Ed And of course I didn't say any of that or even offer an interpretation of Capa's remark. And I don't agree with your explanation of Capa's remark. Where did you read that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I've seen various interpretations of Capa's remark - it meaning both physical distance and emotional distance or both. http://pdnpulse.pdnonline.com/2013/12/what-does-robert-capas-close-enough-rule-mean-today.html Either way it's right, maybe Gene Smith was one who did encompass both 'sides' of the remark.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Endicott Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Ed I wasn't referring to what you said...I was just relaying the information that the quote is widely mis-used. I've read it more than once and it basically derives from the fact that when he said that, it was in French, and then translated to English. You can find various explanations on the internet.... here's one from Black Star Rising.... http://rising.blackstar.com/if-your-pictures-arent-good-enough-youre-not-close-enough.html "Several photographers said that over time, they decided that Capa’s adage is a demand not for proximity but for empathy." http://pdnpulse.pdnonline.com/2013/12/what-does-robert-capas-close-enough-rule-mean-today.html "Robert Capa famously once said, "if your pictures aren't good enough, you're not close enough." He didn't mean use a long lense either, but rather get closer and more involved and more intimate with your subject." http://journals.worldnomads.com/simon_monk/story/100681/Oman/If-your-pictures-arent-good-enough-youre-not-close-enough#axzz36zT4kjsB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Rooney Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 "Ed I wasn't referring to what you said...I was just relaying the information that the quote is widely mis-used. I've read it more than once and it basically derives from the fact that when he said that, it was in French, and then translated to English." - Ed But you did quote me. I was passing the remark on as a simple, direct way to improve Paul's images. Not, of course, suggesting he or anyone should stick the camera in someone's face. I read Geoff's link, which leaves the point open to interpretation. I'll read yours when I come back in a few hours, Ed. But I would not make any cryptic, artsy suggestions to Paul, like 'be passionate.' Not gonna go there. Have a good afternoon, everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Rooney Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Remind me never to quote Robert Capa again. After reading all this stuff and evaluating the possibility of a bigger meaning, I come back to "get a little closer." That was surely what I meant to say to Paul. Personally, I like to be able to read the expression on a subject's face. Of course you can get too close (as we see below). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Edwards Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 You cannot learn it from a book as all have said - it's experience.... Something that i lack much of the time also.. However, to help I really recommend "Pictures on a Page"...... A collection of news photographs with first-hand accounts of how photography has given shape to important moments in modern history. Many leading photographers were interviewed for the book, which includes an analysis of how photographs are taken, selected and edited for newspapers and magazines. Many regard it as as a sort of PJ bible... http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/0712673881/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Rooney Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I have a copy of that book around here somewhere. It was published a long long time ago. Sir Harold Evens, the author, is married to Tina Brown, former editor of The New Yorker. The book was for shooters and picture editors what the Paris Review interviews was for writers . . . but I think/thought it was out of print? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Look after your copy, Ed, according to Amazon it's worth a good piece of money. I'll be keeping mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulstw Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 Thanks every so much for the replies folks. I have ordered the book (£7 on Ebay). Look forward to reading through it. Yesterday was a bad day. Nothing went right and it kind of was the peak of a bad few weeks. I wrote a list of the shots I've been missing lately and started to work on getting those this morning. Hopefully over time things will settle down. The PholioUK review was quite positive. I'll paste the reply I got here Paul Stewart Portfolio Review Let me start by saying you clearly know how to use a camera and have presented a nice range of styles! Your compositional style is strong and quite classical. You are clearly experimenting with a range of techniques, which is good to see. Although I must say at this point (and this is one of my only real criticisms with your work); you don't need to tell me about the specific technical details of each shot in a review like this. I do appreciate it, but I can also tell from the images themselves how they were taken. It's good to use the text to connote upon the image and shed some light on the conceptual side of things. You don't have to put a lengthy conceptual statement; it can simply be the name of the subject and the place for example. It's good to try and write something that the image doesn't give you instantly. Anyway this is not of key importance, but nonetheless worth mentioning and considering. Your wildlife, landscape and reportage shots are great. Nice technique but I'd say be careful when using HDR as it can look a little tacky, also be wary of things moving between shots, like the trees to the right of the image. I think your shot of Loch Lomand proves that your work does not need HDR to work very effectively! There is amazing depth and colour in there without having to 'pump it up' with HDR. The image of the kingfisher is amazing, well composed and nice colours, what patience too; I was left feeling a huge amount of respect for what must have been a frustrating endeavour! Onto your image of the eggs balancing on the forks, I really do like the concept and composition of this but I think the lighting and attention to detail are perhaps just a little lacking. If you're going to do a studio shot like this you need to make it as clean as possible. I appreciate you may not have access to a full professional setup but with an image like this you don't need it. The problem with transparent materials is you get that slight double reflection as opposed to something opaque but smooth and reflective, white Perspex is very good for this. The other thing is the background is a little too close, as the shadow of the egg is climbing up it. Having it further away makes it easier to fill and get rid of shadows if you wish to, and a slight increase in the brightness of the light on the background would help reduce some of those (I assume) unwanted shadows. Some advice regarding the shot of your partner and the way you've used fill light; it's good that you recognized the sun was too strong and the clipping light is nice. But the fill is too strong and flat in my opinion. I'd say you need something more from the side to make it more flattering. Plus if the sun is so strong you can use it to bounce back in, this creates a much nicer softer light. Much of this advice depends what you aim to achieve in photography. A lot of what you have would work very well as stock images. I think you have a good eye for reportage as well as the patience and skill of wildlife work. But perhaps it might be good to explore some more conceptual work. I’m thinking it would be good to see a little more work along the lines of your image "Motion on the Road", which I actually love. There is a real depth in this photograph that draws the viewer in. The sort of multiplication and division of subject through the reflection on the bus and the view through it make this image really interesting. Overall you have a really strong selection of images here. Good composition and interesting subjects. Just be careful of fill light, it's good you're using it and you're nearly there though. And perhaps have a go at exploring some more conceptual ideas. I hope this has given you some useful pointers and areas to work with. You've got some great work and I wish you all the best in future. Having never had my work reviewed before I was a bit nervous. They did mention in the prerequisite that to include as much info about the image as possible. I think a large amount of the reply was telling me off for giving too much info. I doubt that was needed. Overall I don't think I can be too sad about my work overall. I will always be my worst critic and for me it'll never be good enough. However, when all the conditions are met, it does make for a pleasing time. If only we could have it our own way all the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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