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ES2 for Canon 5D Mk3


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I'm looking at buying an  ES2 and have a dopey question or two. 

 

Mark Chapman kindly helped me with the basics some time back.

 

I know that I need a 67-52mm step down ring for my Canon 100mm macro.

 

I also need spacers - my question is should the spacers be 67mm or 52mm. And how many?

 

And will the thread on the ES2 match either sized spacer - is this standard and without Nikon/Canon variation. 

 

My basic concern is that I order these spacers and then can't thread the ES2 onto them.

Edited by geogphotos
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I'm not convinced the ES2 is all that good for slides:

The combination FH-5 plus ES-2 only allows to hold slide mounts with a thickness of 2mm or less. That is a terrible design flaw!

(here)

And here someone even says it's 1.7mm

1.7mm is the thickness of the Kodak paper mounts. Most normal mounts are 2.3mm or even thicker for glass mounts.

Maybe people have 3d printed better solutions by now for the ES-2. Or made one out of cardboard.

Otherwise it's just one of those slide copy attachments that's marketed a bit better.

The holder for filmstrips looks good. Mine are from a long deceased Polaroid/Microtek scanner, and look similar. I have Nikon holders FH2 and 3 too, but I'm still using those with my Coolscan.

 

The old Nikon ES1 was designed for a single mounted slide. They usually go for around $45 on Ebay, still a bit steep. People used the (also pricey, because: Nikon) FH2&3 filmstrip holders for the Coolscan with the ES1, which worked.

The USP of the ES2 is the D850 I think, because of the built-in Negative Digitizing feature.

 

10-15 years ago these contraptions were everywhere and people made all sorts of thingies themselves, usually from Pringles tubes. Or clothes pins. This was before 3d printing of course. Before that they were part of your macro equipment, I have a nice Novoflex one that fit none of my current cameras, because it's for Minolta. My beautiful Olympus bellows sadly is missing this wonderful part.

Frequently complete film duplicators from the analog era turn up on Ebay and at garage sales. I have two. Some come apart and the slide/film holder can be detached. Some even come with nice slide holders.

Currently I'm using a copy stand, but for mounted slides this is overkill.

 

wim

 

edit: Maybe the slide holder for the old ES-28 will fit, they look very much alike. Otoh over at Nikonians.org, someone seems to have adapted the humble Es-28 to a regular lens.

 

Edited by wiskerke
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5 hours ago, wiskerke said:

I have a nice Novoflex one that fit none of my current cameras, because it's for Minolta.

If it's a Novoflex A-mount bellows, and from the picture I think it is, then could you use this?

 

https://www.speedgraphic.co.uk/bellows_systems/novoflex_bellows_camera_adapter_sony_emount_short/23709_p.html

 

They do a long version as well.

 

https://www.speedgraphic.co.uk/bellows_systems/novoflex_bellows_camera_adapter_sony_emount/22347_p.html

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13 hours ago, geogphotos said:

I also need spacers - my question is should the spacers be 67mm or 52mm. And how many?

Standard 52mm spacers will be fine but they may need to be ordered from the Far East. In the other thread we discussed that your 100mm Canon Macro actually has quite a small front element so vignetting is unlikely to be a problem. In terms of how much extension is required you will need to measure precisely the distance from the front filter thread of your lens to the slide when using your 3D printed adapter and work backwards from there. I don't have the ES-2 but the 'mounting thread to slide' distance on the ES-1 is adjustable between 49 - 72mm. The ES-1 is well made from metal and doesn't have the slide thickness limitation that Wim describes but I imagine you might be looking to copy negatives as you can already copy slides. When setting these things up the odd millimetre here and there can make a difference so allow for the 62-52mm adapter and those 52mm extension rings are only available in a few sizes.

Edited by Harry Harrison
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I was thinking about copying my negs but this design flaw about the ES2 only taking very thin card slide mounts is putting me off. The price seems too high just for being able to do some negs. I had intended being also able to use it for slides. 

 

I still have Alan Gallery's 'thing' and it can accept most slides - not glass mounted one or the thicker type of Agfachrome. Having said that Alan's Thing does have two plastic clips outside the slide holder and I have been able to use that for thick slides. and a bit of steady 'balancing in position' by hand.

 

This was an end of the tax year notion so I think it best to hold off. I have plenty to be getting on with. 

 

You would think that when designing a slide copier they would have considered the variety of slide mounts that there are in the real world. 🤨

Edited by geogphotos
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3 hours ago, Harry Harrison said:

 

I have some of the Novoflex adapters. At least Nikon and Canon I believe. However this one was fitted with a fixed Minolta mount. Which is Sony A. So a Sony A to Sony EF  (or the other way around) would do the trick. Also fixed is relative of course. Most fixed things can easily be un-fixed. 😁

 

wim

 

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48 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

I had intended being also able to use it for slides. 

ES-1 is a better better bet, certainly better value. I don't actually use the ES-1 but I was interested to try it out. Really what's needed is a custom 35mm slide mount that has a larger 36 x 24mm aperture so there's no cropping plus the ability to fit a strip of negatives. I customised a metal-masked GePe mount to do this, removing the metal mask opened up the aperture and a file dealt with the internal ribbing to allow a strip of negatives to fit in. Just put the negative strip in place and close the customised mount over it. Something a 3D printer designer could probably knock up quite easily, perhaps they already have.

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8 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

ES-1 is a better better bet, certainly better value. I don't actually use the ES-1 but I was interested to try it out. Really what's needed is a custom 35mm slide mount that has a larger 36 x 24mm aperture so there's no cropping plus the ability to fit a strip of negatives. I customised a metal-masked GePe mount to do this, removing the metal mask opened up the aperture and a file dealt with the internal ribbing to allow a strip of negatives to fit in. Just put the negative strip in place and close the customised mount over it. Something a 3D printer designer could probably knock up quite easily, perhaps they already have.

 

 

That's why I think I will wait.

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6 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

ES-1 is a better better bet, certainly better value. I don't actually use the ES-1 but I was interested to try it out. Really what's needed is a custom 35mm slide mount that has a larger 36 x 24mm aperture so there's no cropping plus the ability to fit a strip of negatives. I customised a metal-masked GePe mount to do this, removing the metal mask opened up the aperture and a file dealt with the internal ribbing to allow a strip of negatives to fit in. Just put the negative strip in place and close the customised mount over it. Something a 3D printer designer could probably knock up quite easily, perhaps they already have.

 

I first bought a used ES-1 to digitise a few hundred family images my father had shot. Later I took on a paying job digitising a slide collection, and I still haven't finished them. Later I bought new an ES-2 to digitise a selection of my 35mm E6 and B&W negatives, all stored in strips of 6. I've only got as far as separating the ones to digitise. Have the recommended Nikon macro lenses for both,

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1 hour ago, wiskerke said:

I have some of the Novoflex adapters. At least Nikon and Canon I believe.

I see, they sold the same basic bellows in a variety of configurations, I have a Leicaflex version (body & lens) together with an A-mount version which has a 39mm thread for an enlarger lens. Actually designed for the Chromapro slide duplicator. The adaptors are rarely available second-hand but at least they still make them. Novoflex bellows are  far better quality than the widely available (in the UK) BPM versions.

 

The setup in your picture looks good, is that an enlarger lens?

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2 hours ago, Harry Harrison said:

I see, they sold the same basic bellows in a variety of configurations, I have a Leicaflex version (body & lens) together with an A-mount version which has a 39mm thread for an enlarger lens. Actually designed for the Chromapro slide duplicator. The adaptors are rarely available second-hand but at least they still make them. Novoflex bellows are  far better quality than the widely available (in the UK) BPM versions.

 

The setup in your picture looks good, is that an enlarger lens?

It is not my setup, just an illustration of what the Novoflex looks like. I have described my search for a method here (where you also took part). I tested most lenses on my Olympus bellows, which is structurally much sturdier. But I bought it at that same time, thinking the slide attachment might come in handy at one point. As for bellows: in that Ikea case alone there are a Nikon bellows with a part hacked off (not by me): a GDR one; the Olypus one and the Novoflex. I'm sure I have some more. Albeit in parts maybe. Or broken; or both.

Once in a while I get the tinkering bug. 😁

Currently adapting the A7R2 to my Sinar 4x5. (Conclusion: not really worth the effort, but an interesting project.)

 

wim

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There are people (mostly male) like wim and Harry who like making things and tinkering with things and they are clearly very good at it - fair dues.

 

Then there are people like me who don't enjoy (that is an understatement for me - hate would be more appropriate 😀) this type of activity and are often really bad at it (definitely me). When it comes to precision devices for copying 35mm film, such as the ES-1 and ES-2, I am happy to pay the small price and have something that works really well in terms of quality of the copied slide or neg (holds the film at exactly 90 degrees and is flat across the field), is highly efficient (speed of placing the film, speed of focusing etc), lends itself to easy placement of a light (easy behind the ES-1 or ES-2 diffuser) and is healthy in terms of ergonomics (e.g. can be done sitting at a table at head height rather than say bending over a tripod trying to focus on a slide placed below). 

 

 

13 hours ago, wiskerke said:

 

The USP of the ES2 is the D850 I think, because of the built-in Negative Digitizing feature.

 

 

That was or is just an added marketing extra not a USP. I doubt if anyone ever bought a D850 for that reason. It spits out a JPEG which negates the benefit of camera copying (having a raw file) and anyone who knows the first thing about Lightroom and/or Photoshop can produce a decent positive from a negative. In my opinion, the USP of the D850 is that it is by far the best DSLR ever made.😀

 

 

Edited by MDM
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11 minutes ago, MDM said:

When it comes to precision devices for copying 35mm film, such as the ES-1 and ES-2, I am happy to pay the small price and have something that works really well

Can't remember whether you use the ES-2 Michael? The problem with the ES-2 that Wim has pointed out seems to be that the FH-4 holder takes two slides but they have to be very thin, there isn't such a limitation on the ES-1 which I have myself. If needing to shoot strips of negatives on an ES-1 then something like this may be the answer:

 

https://www.triontechg.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=109163

 

However who knows how well designed or executed it is and then there's carriage, import duties etc. 

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24 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

Can't remember whether you use the ES-2 Michael? The problem with the ES-2 that Wim has pointed out seems to be that the FH-4 holder takes two slides but they have to be very thin, there isn't such a limitation on the ES-1 which I have myself. If needing to shoot strips of negatives on an ES-1 then something like this may be the answer:

 

https://www.triontechg.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=109163

 

However who knows how well designed or executed it is and then there's carriage, import duties etc. 

 

I did get an ES-2 as I have a lot of negs to copy and have had no problem with the Fujichrome or Kodachrome mounts or any from any labs that I had mounted slides from. The problem seems to be with thicker Gepe mounts. It might be a design thing. I doubt Nikon would be trying to get people to also buy the ES-1 just for that reason as I think the success or not of the slide copiers is not going to make or break Nikon. I am dubious about the 1.7 mm claim in any case but am not in a position to test without buying 2mm Gepe mounts.

 

I do admire guys (mainly if not almost exclusively) like yourself by the way who can do and enjoy doing all that intricate mechanical stuff. 

Edited by MDM
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2 hours ago, MDM said:

There are people (mostly male) like wim and Harry who like making things and tinkering with things and they are clearly very good at it - fair dues.

 

Then there are people like me who don't enjoy ........... this type of activity and are often really bad at it.....

Assuming a bit of manual dexterity, in these times it qualifies as Something To Do. The bad news that something will take a while to sort out is also the good news. Then there's time versus money- especially in these times, when some people (definitely me) have noticed an unfavourable change in the relative availability of those particular items.

Edited by spacecadet
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2 hours ago, MDM said:

I am dubious about the 1.7 mm claim in any case but am not in a position to test without buying 2mm Gepe mounts.

Yes, the guy in the review spoke about GePe metal mask glassless slide mounts being 3mm, well I have those and they're 1.95mm, it's printed on the box. Maybe they used to be 3mm, or maybe he meant with glass. I imagine they'd be fine, as would all Kodachromes as you say.

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4 minutes ago, spacecadet said:

Assuming a bit of manual dexterity, in these times it qualifies as Something To Do. The bad news that something will take a while to sort out is also the good news. Then there's time versus money- especially in these times, when some people (definitely me) have noticed an unfavourable change in the relative availability of those particular items.

The assumption of manual dexterity does not apply here, at least not that type of manual dexterity. Given from now until the end of time (my time or anyone else’s), even if I had the inclination, I would never have the manual dexterity to make something like a high precision slide holder. For me it would be a complete waste of my time  but, as I said, I do admire those with the inclination and manual dexterity to do so. I would far rather spend my time learning a skill that might make me some money down the line or, at least that I really enjoy doing. Video shooting and editing has been the big lockdown thing for me. It has certainly not been fast but I am getting there. I don’t know if it will ever be a money maker but hopefully....?

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5 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

Yes, the guy in the review spoke about GePe metal mask glassless slide mounts being 3mm, well I have those and they're 1.95mm, it's printed on the box. Maybe they used to be 3mm, or maybe he meant with glass. I imagine they'd be fine, as would all Kodachromes as you say.


Sure. Once again it goes to show one should not just go on hearsay. I think the ES-1 is still better for slides only though as it is very fast to change them. Having said that, if I had not had the ES-1 in the first place, the ES-2 is more than adequate. 

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2 hours ago, MDM said:

There are people (mostly male) like wim and Harry who like making things and tinkering with things and they are clearly very good at it - fair dues.

 

Then there are people like me who don't enjoy (that is an understatement for me - hate would be more appropriate 😀) this type of activity and are often really bad at it (definitely me). When it comes to precision devices for copying 35mm film, such as the ES-1 and ES-2, I am happy to pay the small price and have something that works really well in terms of quality of the copied slide or neg (holds the film at exactly 90 degrees and is flat across the field), is highly efficient (speed of placing the film, speed of focusing etc), lends itself to easy placement of a light (easy behind the ES-1 or ES-2 diffuser) and is healthy in terms of ergonomics (e.g. can be done sitting at a table at head height rather than say bending over a tripod trying to focus on a slide placed below). 

 

 

 

That was or is just an added marketing extra not a USP. I doubt if anyone ever bought a D850 for that reason. It spits out a JPEG which negates the benefit of camera copying (having a raw file) and anyone who knows the first thing about Lightroom and/or Photoshop can produce a decent positive from a negative. In my opinion, the USP of the D850 is that it is by far the best DSLR ever made.😀

 

 

Haha!

 

I said: The USP of the ES2 is the D850.

Not: The USP of the D850 is the built-in Negative Digitizing feature.

 

The real USP of the ES2 is indeed the no hassle solution for the Nikon owner and especially the D850 owner.

 

wim

 

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17 minutes ago, wiskerke said:

Haha!

 

I said: The USP of the ES2 is the D850.

Not: The USP of the D850 is the built-in Negative Digitizing feature.

 

The real USP of the ES2 is indeed the no hassle solution for the Nikon owner and especially the D850 owner.

 

wim

 


Sorry wim. No excuses, not even exhaustion. I must read things more carefully. 😀. Although I do think the negative digitisation feature of the D850 is way overblown for the reason I mentioned above. 
 

Edit. Just to add it is not just the Nikon owner who can enjoy the no hassle solution of course. The ES-1 and 2 can be easily used on other makes of camera. 

Edited by MDM
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18 minutes ago, MDM said:

 Given from now until the end of time (my time or anyone else’s), even if I had the inclination, I would never have the manual dexterity to make something like a high precision slide holder.

Well fortunately my system didn't require anything very high- it's cardboard and Plasticard. With some Blu-Tack for positioning. That's about my limit, I don't really do metal. But then with the vertical Illumitran I do have gravity assist. Nothing drops off.

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MDM said
There are people (mostly male) like wim and Harry who like making things and tinkering with things and they are clearly very good at it - fair dues. Then there are people like me who don't enjoy (that is an understatement for me - hate would be more appropriate 😀) this type of activity and are often really bad at it (definitely me)

 

Me, me, me......Truer word were never spoken.

But thank heavens for the others, who are the inventors of the world. I’m just a person who uses what they invent.

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