ES2 for Canon 5D Mk3

[MDM]

48 minutes ago, Betty LaRue said:

 

MDM said
There are people (mostly male) like wim and Harry who like making things and tinkering with things and they are clearly very good at it - fair dues. Then there are people like me who don't enjoy (that is an understatement for me - hate would be more appropriate 😀) this type of activity and are often really bad at it (definitely me)

 

Me, me, me......Truer word were never spoken.

But thank heavens for the others, who are the inventors of the world. I’m just a person who uses what they invent.

 

I love technology so cameras, computers, software,  computer innards all fine but I really don’t enjoy doing intricate mechanical tasks, DIY etc.  I love science, learning, observing, analysing and deducing but inventing something - not a chance. 

 

 

[wiskerke]

5 hours ago, MDM said:

Sorry wim. No excuses, not even exhaustion. I must read things more carefully. 😀. Although I do think the negative digitisation feature of the D850 is way overblown for the reason I mentioned above. 
 

Edit. Just to add it is not just the Nikon owner who can enjoy the no hassle solution of course. The ES-1 and 2 can be easily used on other makes of camera. 

An evening a short while ago I would have given a fair sum if I could have had that function. Now it took me a fair chunk of my sleep until I was able to produce half decent color corrected positives from 20 year old negatives. Of which I did have contemporary scans: tiny 800x533px scans from the Hema our equivalent of Tesco or Woolworths. Which had done a lot better color conversion than anything I could muster. It took me hours to understand the correct procedure to even get to the starting line. After that getting to a half decent finish was just an hour more. For 4 images! Yikes. Anyway I now know the basics. Hopefully I will remember those when the next opportunity presents itself.

 

The ES-1 is a good and adaptable design because it has an extendable inner tube, which I never see in any Nikon ad. The ES-2 seems to have been designed very much for a couple of specific lenses.

 

Now let me get my calipers out and measure some slide mounts.

- all in mm:

Pakom (US pro lab prob. Nat Geo)	1.25
Hema NL bulk lab	1.7
No name (pro lab Asia)	1.75
Kodak Ektachrome plastic (pro lab US)	1.8
Hama Hamafix one-piece glassless	2.25
Macbro (?) one piece w slit	2.35
Wess (slide-sound show) no glass	2.9
Gepe AN 2 sided metal 2 sided glass	2.95
Gepe non metal non glass	3
Agfacolor double glass 2 sided glue	3.1
Titania	3.2
Color Clip double glass	3.2
Olympus 35 Clip no glass	3.2

 

There must be more: pro Wess mounts with notches to position slides; Gepe with no glass, but double metal, which I use to scan slides in the Coolscan.

 

wim

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2021 by wiskerke
mm

[Betty LaRue]

4 hours ago, MDM said:

I love technology so cameras, computers, software,  computer innards all fine but I really don’t enjoy doing intricate mechanical tasks, DIY etc.  I love science, learning, observing, analysing and deducing but inventing something - not a chance. 

 

 

And I love photography, painting, reading, writing, and designing and making jewelry. If you ever need to know what color to paint the sky, just ask. There are many blues.
I’ll trade you for a computer or LR tip.

[geogphotos]

 

The 'Thing' has these two plastic flaps that hold the slide in place as it is positioned into the holder. You can see that my ones are close to perishing now after a year of use and no longer grip thin slides. I have used it like this for big fat Agfachrome slides and then straightened them up by hand - not ideal but better than breaking up the mount, it is just a matter of time before the plastic breaks apart.

 

Some system that allowed for slides of different thicknesses would be very useful. It seems odd that the designers of the Nikon products didn't consider that.

Edited April 2, 2021 by geogphotos

[Harry Harrison]

13 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

Some system that allowed for slides of different thicknesses would be very useful. It seems odd that the designers of the Nikon products didn't consider that.

Interesting to see how it's made, he did a good job for you. Actually the ES-1 is very similar in that respect but the spring clips are stainless steel and will presumably last for ever. Two machine screws secure the diffuser and clips into the substantial metal body, it's very well made. Perhaps the only weakness is that you need to take good care of the diffuser, I doubt that it is available on its own so you wouldn't want to scratch it. You could however remove it, the same screws will potentially screw in further to just hold the clips though some judicious spacers would be more elegant. Better to just look after the diffuser.

 

I have just tried two 2mm slides together, so this trumps anything in Wim's useful slide thickness league table. No problem at all.

[geogphotos]

Maybe I should just buy ES products both and look after them in case I want to resell.

 

Having the proper equipment is essential. 

 

Yes, I agree with you Harry, Alan did an amazing job for me. Extremely kind of him. I must have copied almost 3000 slides using it over the last year. 

[Harry Harrison]

2 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

Maybe I should just buy ES products both

I'd hold off on the ES-2, the ES-1 will be a perfect replacement for Alan's prototype. You just need to get the correct spacers sorted out but you've got that 23mm of adjustment to play with. That neg holder that I linked to will probably work for negs OK, I didn't follow through to see how much it would cost in total.

[geogphotos]

18 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

I'd hold off on the ES-2, the ES-1 will be a perfect replacement for Alan's prototype. You just need to get the correct spacers sorted out but you've got that 23mm of adjustment to play with. That neg holder that I linked to will probably work for negs OK, I didn't follow through to see how much it would cost in total.

 

Thanks Harry

 

I've gone ahead and bought them both - can always resell. Just need to figure out the spacers as I've bought a step down ring. 

 

I had a Paypal balance hanging around accrued from slide copies that I had sold direct so it doesn't seem like real money😀

[geogphotos]

The 'Thing' is 14cm long to the end ( and then the slide holder is in front)and that is a little too long.

 

I'm looking for suggestions on optimum lengths of spacer rings/extension rings to use on both the ES1 and ES2 - I only have the one 100mm Canon lens so ideally will want a combination of spacers that I can use on both and not too much waste. I see ones at 28mm and then smaller. So 4 x 2.8 should be okay?? Or 3 x 2.8 and then a couple of thinner ones? What do you reckon? Not sure how much length each ES adds.

 

 

I understand that these are imported from Asia - so are there unexpected costs associated with importing them? 

 

Apologies for more dopey questions - please ignore if irritated.   

Edited April 2, 2021 by geogphotos

[Harry Harrison]

1 hour ago, geogphotos said:

Not sure how much length each ES adds.

I can't speak for the ES-2, but this short video gives you an idea. You'll see that it also has built-in adjustment and also that, unlike the ES-1, it comes with some rings of its own, one is a step-down ring I think:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBWNgtxMlY0&t=221s

 

I'm not sure what you mean by 'that is a little too long'. Do you mean that you're capturing too much border so losing resolution, less would be better? If so how much less I wonder.

 

Really we just need to know the distance from the filter ring of your lens to the slide at optimum magnification. Fairly simple from there.

 

[wiskerke]

5 hours ago, geogphotos said:

 

The 'Thing' has these two plastic flaps that hold the slide in place as it is positioned into the holder. You can see that my ones are close to perishing now after a year of use and no longer grip thin slides. I have used it like this for big fat Agfachrome slides and then straightened them up by hand - not ideal but better than breaking up the mount, it is just a matter of time before the plastic breaks apart.

 

Some system that allowed for slides of different thicknesses would be very useful. It seems odd that the designers of the Nikon products didn't consider that.

 

2 rubber bands on either side will do a much better trick pressing the slide to the tube.

 

wim

[geogphotos]

2 hours ago, Harry Harrison said:

I can't speak for the ES-2, but this short video gives you an idea. You'll see that it also has built-in adjustment and also that, unlike the ES-1, it comes with some rings of its own, one is a step-down ring I think:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBWNgtxMlY0&t=221s

 

I'm not sure what you mean by 'that is a little too long'. Do you mean that you're capturing too much border so losing resolution, less would be better? If so how much less I wonder.

 

Really we just need to know the distance from the filter ring of your lens to the slide at optimum magnification. Fairly simple from there.

 

 

 

This shows it:

 

[spacecadet]

That's barely more mount than I usually get and I don't worry too much about the extra- unless you are trying to eliminate having to crop each copy. I get about 75% of the sensor size.

The annoying bit with Kodachromes is having to crop off so much to get rid of the curved corners.

Edited April 2, 2021 by spacecadet

[geogphotos]

3 minutes ago, spacecadet said:

That's barely more mount than I usually get and I don't worry too much about the extra. I get about 75% of the sensor size.

The annoying bit with Kodachromes is having to crop off so much to get rid of the curved corners.

 

I often use the clone tool to sort out the corners, but then again there is often a lot of crud close to the edges so it is nice to chop that off. Depends on the picture. 

 

[wiskerke]

3 hours ago, geogphotos said:

The 'Thing' is 14cm long to the end ( and then the slide holder is in front)and that is a little too long.

 

I'm looking for suggestions on optimum lengths of spacer rings/extension rings to use on both the ES1 and ES2 - I only have the one 100mm Canon lens so ideally will want a combination of spacers that I can use on both and not too much waste. I see ones at 28mm and then smaller. So 4 x 2.8 should be okay?? Or 3 x 2.8 and then a couple of thinner ones? What do you reckon? Not sure how much length each ES adds.

 

 

I understand that these are imported from Asia - so are there unexpected costs associated with importing them? 

 

Apologies for more dopey questions - please ignore if irritated.   

 

Maybe the extension tube of the ES-1 is sufficiently long to bridge the difference.

Have a brief look at this video.

 

wim

[geogphotos]

1 hour ago, wiskerke said:

 

2 rubber bands on either side will do a much better trick pressing the slide to the tube.

 

wim

 

 

You can see that one of the plastic flaps is a bit stronger than the other. I have had pretty good results holding thicker slides outside the actual slide area held in the plastic flaps by a finger or two. But you don't want to be doing that for too long.

[geogphotos]

21 minutes ago, wiskerke said:

 

Maybe the extension tube of the ES-1 is sufficiently long to bridge the difference.

Have a brief look at this video.

 

wim

 

Thanks.

The ES1 and ES2 are coming from UK so won't take too long to arrive. Then I'll have a better chance of figuring out what needs to be done in terms of buying spacers. 

Edited April 2, 2021 by geogphotos

[Harry Harrison]

2 hours ago, geogphotos said:

This shows it:

OK, since it's a little difficult to guesstimate how much shorter it should be you can let that be the longest option. 

 

So if it is 141mm to the slide from the filter ring of your lens we get:

 

ES-1  fully stretched - 72mm to slide

Step-down ring - 2mm (?)

Leaving 67mm

 

Given that you can shorten the ES-1 by another 23mm then I would think 2 x 28mm would be about right. 28 + 21 would also be OK I think.

[geogphotos]

6 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

OK, since it's a little difficult to guesstimate how much shorter it should be you can let that be the longest option. 

 

So if it is 141mm to the slide from the filter ring of your lens we get:

 

ES-1  fully stretched - 72mm to slide

Step-down ring - 2mm (?)

Leaving 67mm

 

Given that you can shorten the ES-1 by another 23mm then I would think 2 x 28mm would be about right. 28 + 21 would also be OK I think.

 

Thanks Harry. 

 

Is the ES2 the same length fully stretched?

[MDM]

2 hours ago, wiskerke said:

 

Maybe the extension tube of the ES-1 is sufficiently long to bridge the difference.

Have a brief look at this video.

 

wim

 

19 hours ago, wiskerke said:

 

 

The ES-1 is a good and adaptable design because it has an extendable inner tube, which I never see in any Nikon ad. The ES-2 seems to have been designed very much for a couple of specific lenses.

 

 

 

They have been designed for specific Nikon macro lenses but will work with other macro lenses as well - Nikon and others. The best lens I have found is the Tamron 90 (the one before the current one), as it is sharp corner to corner and the AF works perfectly even at the close distances involved. I have to put a few cheap plastic extenders in front of the lens. The other excellent one is the Micro Nikkor 55 which needs a proper extension ring behind the lens to get 1:1. That is MF only. The AF is a big advantage for really accurate focusing.

 

It depends on the lens but most short telephoto macro lenses won't focus close enough so it is really a matter of trial and error. As these bits of plastic that go between the lens and the holder (ES-1 or ES-2) are generally very cheap (usually < £10), it is my opinion that buying one or two extra ones beyond what one thinks one will need

 at the time of purchase is the sensible way to go, especially given that they come from China and it can take a couple of weeks for them to arrive. For those so inclined, they could even sell the extra ones off on eBay or the like if not required. 

 

This and a lot lot more was covered in extensive detail in that other thread. 

 

 

 

[geogphotos]

25 minutes ago, MDM said:

It depends on the lens but most short telephoto macro lenses won't focus close enough so it is really a matter of trial and error. As these bits of plastic that go between the lens and the holder (ES-1 or ES-2) are generally very cheap (usually < £10), it is my opinion that buying one or two extra ones beyond what one thinks one will need

 at the time of purchase is the sensible way to go, especially given that they come from China and it can take a couple of weeks for them to arrive. For those so inclined, they could even sell the extra ones off on eBay or the like if not required. 

 

This and a lot lot more was covered in extensive detail in that other thread. 

 

 

 

 

 

I would like to order what I need for the two Nikon attachments. I'm not particularly bothered about the cost or having a few that I don't need. The time factor is what is more important and not finding out that when the order arrives that I need something that I should have ordered. It is the deficit rather than the surplus that concerns me. Though I would like to do it without waste if possible.

 

It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that somebody reading this forum has already solved this conundrum and can say exactly what they their experience is.  In any case we have some very helpful and knowledgeable people right here. Thanks to you all. 😁

[MDM]

As I said above, it is my opinion that ordering more than one thinks one might need is the sensible approach. The ES-2 extension is a little shorter than the ES-1 extension so an extra plastic spacer might be wise if cutting it tight in the initial calculation. It is likely, in my opinion, that there would be more waste and carbon usage involved in having to buy an extra one or two and a second package delivered in more plastic packaging from China. In addition the build quality of these cheap tubes of hard plastic may not be exactly world beating so having a spare or two is a good idea in my opinion. 

[geogphotos]

7 minutes ago, MDM said:

As I said above, it is my opinion that ordering more than one thinks one might need is the sensible approach. The ES-2 extension is a little shorter than the ES-1 extension so an extra plastic spacer might be wise if cutting it tight in the initial calculation. It is likely, in my opinion, that there would be more waste and carbon usage involved in having to buy an extra one or two and a second package delivered in more plastic packaging from China. In addition the build quality of these cheap tubes of hard plastic may not be exactly world beating so having a spare or two is a good idea in my opinion. 

 

I am just trying to find out what I need to order because I don't know what I need to order. 

 

 

[Harry Harrison]

1 hour ago, geogphotos said:

 

I am just trying to find out what I need to order because I don't know what I need to order. 

I see that the ES-2 comes with two adapters, both have 62mm at the lens and 52mm to attach to the slide holder, one is 9mm and the other is 33mm, both are plastic.  I suspect that if you get a 21mm & 28mm '52mm' extension ring then you will be all set. Seems they are available on Amazon here.

 

However, I'd also agree that buying a 14mm & a 7mm would give you more scope even if you don't end up needing them, or just wait till the ES-2 arrives I guess.

[wiskerke]

3 hours ago, MDM said:

They have been designed for specific Nikon macro lenses but will work with other macro lenses as well - Nikon and others. The best lens I have found is the Tamron 90 (the one before the current one), as it is sharp corner to corner and the AF works perfectly even at the close distances involved. I have to put a few cheap plastic extenders in front of the lens. The other excellent one is the Micro Nikkor 55 which needs a proper extension ring behind the lens to get 1:1. That is MF only. The AF is a big advantage for really accurate focusing.

 

It depends on the lens but most short telephoto macro lenses won't focus close enough so it is really a matter of trial and error. As these bits of plastic that go between the lens and the holder (ES-1 or ES-2) are generally very cheap (usually < £10), it is my opinion that buying one or two extra ones beyond what one thinks one will need

 at the time of purchase is the sensible way to go, especially given that they come from China and it can take a couple of weeks for them to arrive. For those so inclined, they could even sell the extra ones off on eBay or the like if not required. 

 

This and a lot lot more was covered in extensive detail in that other thread.

 

Ah yes that thread that lasted half a year if I remember correctly. Wasn't it about chairs and Russian ladies? And the answer probably was 42.

 

What I use as extension rings sometimes is old filters, which are mostly worthless. Just remove the glass or plastic and stack them. The cheap ones are the best, because those can be unscrewed to get the glass out. (Use rubber gloves, preferably no tools.)

Because they're so thin, one needs quite a few, but adjusting is very easy because of that. Another advantage is that the size of one's own filters usually matches one's own lenses.

 

wim