Canon slide copying set-up

[geogphotos]

Just now, M.Chapman said:

 

But I'm not looking at your image on an iMac.  A retina display would make your 100% crop look sharper to you, but not to me as I've only got a regular display. I suspect Photoshelter has downsized the cropped image or it's not a 100% crop from a 3,786 x 2,635 image.

No worries. I was just being curious.

 

Mark

 

That's probably it Mark. Photoshelter constraining the image. Sorry didn't think of that.

[M.Chapman]

20 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

 

 

I've got a feeling that we are back to that 100% not really being 100% on recent Macs. 

 

I don't know about all the maths and calculations just posting screenshots from my usual workflow.

 

This is at 200% - I do not normally view at this level. 

 

 

 

 

Hi Ian, it looks like Photo-shelter is doing something. Surely it's too much of a coincidence that the longest side on all the images you've posted is exactly 500 pixels? So although you maybe uploading a 100% crop to Photoshelter, that's not what they are "serving" back to the forum posts.

 

Oops looks like our posts are crossing 🙂 

 

Try uploading a 100% crop that has a longest side of 500 pixels or less. Then it should appear correctly (perhaps).

 

Mark

Edited March 26, 2020 by M.Chapman

[geogphotos]

Thanks Mark, I was just trying to make the point that with a bit of improvisation I am able to make files for Alamy using this lens even without the attachments, extension rings and whatnot. 

 

I've cut out some cardboard so each slide can slot into the corner of the lightbox, the camera stays in the same position on the tripod,  fire the shutter, and in with the next one.

 

As imperfections and errors are par for the course I might well cut down on the dust busting.

 

 

[M.Chapman]

10 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

Thanks Mark, I was just trying to make the point that with a bit of improvisation I am able to make files for Alamy using this lens even without the attachments, extension rings and whatnot. 

 

I've cut out some cardboard so each slide can slot into the corner of the lightbox, the camera stays in the same position on the tripod,  fire the shutter, and in with the next one.

 

As imperfections and errors are par for the course I might well cut down on the dust busting.

 

If you can increase the space between the slide and lightbox a little (some sort of spacer), then any dust on the lightbox surface will be out of focus which can help.

 

Mark

[geogphotos]

22 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

 

If you can increase the space between the slide and lightbox a little (some sort of spacer), then any dust on the lightbox surface will be out of focus which can help.

 

Mark

 

Good idea. I'll try using the slide holder from my film scanner but it is amazing how much dust can be shifted with a blower and bit of wiping. A cleaned slide should keep the lightbox space clean.

[Rob C]

Have you tried giving the slides a clean with Isopropyl Alcohol (99% pure), to remove grease, fingerprints etc?

[MDM]

14 minutes ago, Rob C said:

Have you tried giving the slides a clean with Isopropyl Alcohol (99% pure), to remove grease, fingerprints etc?

 

Isn't that the main ingredient of hand sanitiser? Did you say you were wild camping in Oman in which case you may not have heard what a rare commodity Isopropyl Alcohol is at the moment. 😀

[KevinS]

14 hours ago, Harry Harrison said:

With that 81mm extension does that get you to the middle of the range of adjustment built in to the ES-1 itself, and roughly how much is that in fact?

It gets me very close to the end of the range. The ES-1 gives 24mm of travel. By manually setting the lens to minimum focus distance, the slide is in focus with the ES-1 racked out to about 23mm. If I rack the slide holder all the way out, AF (works if light source is bright enough) backs the focus off very slightly (Maybe 1 degree of lens barrel rotation). I think I'll be using AF when I get going with this, because the outer part of ES-1 wobbles quite a bit. Hard against the stop will ensure the slide is alined properly.

Edited March 26, 2020 by KevinS

[spacecadet]

30 minutes ago, MDM said:

 

Isn't that the main ingredient of hand sanitiser? Did you say you were wild camping in Oman in which case you may not have heard what a rare commodity Isopropyl Alcohol is at the moment. 😀

We're down to our last 250ml, but we wash our hands at home so it's still reserved for film cleaning- I've not needed to clean slides with it yet but it's the only thing for getting old splice residue off 16mm. It's analytical grade, too, seems a shame to waste it on some crummy life-threatening virus.😀

[geogphotos]

1 hour ago, Rob C said:

Have you tried giving the slides a clean with Isopropyl Alcohol (99% pure), to remove grease, fingerprints etc?

 

 

I've got some elderberry wine 😃

[Harry Harrison]

37 minutes ago, KevinS said:

It gets me very close to the end of the range. The ES-1 gives 24mm of travel. By manually setting the lens to minimum focus distance, the slide is in focus with the ES-1 racked out to about 23mm. If I rack the slide holder all the way out, AF (works if light source is bright enough) backs the focus off very slightly (Maybe 1 degree of lens barrel rotation). I think I'll be using AF when I get going with this, because the outer part of ES-1 wobbles quite a bit. Hard against the stop will ensure the slide is alined properly.

Excellent Kevin, thank you.

[MDM]

1 hour ago, KevinS said:

It gets me very close to the end of the range. The ES-1 gives 24mm of travel. By manually setting the lens to minimum focus distance, the slide is in focus with the ES-1 racked out to about 23mm. If I rack the slide holder all the way out, AF (works if light source is bright enough) backs the focus off very slightly (Maybe 1 degree of lens barrel rotation). I think I'll be using AF when I get going with this, because the outer part of ES-1 wobbles quite a bit. Hard against the stop will ensure the slide is alined properly.

 

29 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

Excellent Kevin, thank you.

 

More than working out exact lengths of extenders, it is better to approximate closest focus distance and then buy more extension than you think you need. The extenders are really cheap so buying an extra extender is better than having to order twice. Mine took about 2 weeks to arrive from China when I bought them back in early Feb but it might take longer now. I bought 52mm ones and used an adapter to step down the lenses I have used but it really wouldn't matter using 58mm extenders and attaching to the ES-1 with a step down adapter. Note these are not classic extension rings that go behind the lens. These are simply spacers to enable the ES-1 to be placed at or slightly beyond minimum focus distance.

 

To summarise shooting technique, with the D810 on a tripod,  I use f11, manual cable release,  mirror-up and electronic first curtain shutter. Not sure if the electronic first curtain shutter does any good for minimising any shake but it is not harmful. I use a high CRI LED light close behind the diffuser.  I use f11 to as the optimum aperture for depth of field and corner to corner sharpness. The best lens I have for this is a Tamron 90 macro only beating the Nikkor 55 because of the AF. 

[geogphotos]

Sorry to be dumb, certainly too dumb to make estimations for which you need more skill and knowledge than I possess.

 

Please could I have a simple shopping list so that my Canon 5D mk 3 plus 100m L lens can work with a Nikon ES-1

 

1) ES-1

2) ?

3) ?

4) ?

Edited March 26, 2020 by geogphotos

[Harry Harrison]

2 hours ago, MDM said:

More than working out exact lengths of extenders, it is better to approximate closest focus distance and then buy more extension than you think you need. The extenders are really cheap so buying an extra extender is better than having to order twice. Mine took about 2 weeks to arrive from China when I bought them back in early Feb but it might take longer now. I bought 52mm ones and used an adapter to step down the lenses I have used but it really wouldn't matter using 58mm extenders and attaching to the ES-1 with a step down adapter. Note these are not classic extension rings that go behind the lens. These are simply spacers to enable the ES-1 to be placed at or slightly beyond minimum focus distance.

 

To summarise shooting technique, with the D810 on a tripod,  I use f11, manual cable release,  mirror-up and electronic first curtain shutter. Not sure if the electronic first curtain shutter does any good for minimising any shake but it is not harmful. I use a high CRI LED light close behind the diffuser.  I use f11 to as the optimum aperture for depth of field and corner to corner sharpness. The best lens I have for this is a Tamron 90 macro only beating the Nikkor 55 because of the AF. 

Thanks, I think this thread turned into a very good resource for anyone wanting to use the ES-1 on any lens, it's all here. 

[spacecadet]

1 hour ago, geogphotos said:

Sorry to be dumb, certainly too dumb to make estimations for which you need more skill and knowledge than I possess.

 

Please could I have a simple shopping list so that my Canon 5D mk 3 plus 100m L lens can work with a Nikon ES-1

 

1) ES-1

2) ?

3) ?

4) ?

I may need correcting, but for full- frame you need 1:1 reproduction, and the distance from the front of the lens (MWD- minimum working distance) for that will be in the lens spec.  So, if the ES-1 measures X mm. from the thread to the plane in which the slide sits (I don't know that measurement- has it been mentioned?, or someone can tell you) you need extenders totalling (MWD-X)mm. As MDM says, cover the range from a bit more to a bit less.

 

[geogphotos]

13 minutes ago, spacecadet said:

I may need correcting, but for full- frame you need 1:1 reproduction, and the distance from the front of the lens (MWD- minimum working distance) for that will be in the lens spec.  So, if the ES-1 measures X mm. from the thread to the plane in which the slide sits (I don't know that measurement- has it been mentioned?, or someone can tell you) you need extenders totalling (MWD-X)mm. As MDM says, cover the range from a bit more to a bit less.

 

 

Okay, thanks I'll gracefully bow out of this. I don't want to be annoying. 

[sooth]

.
 

Edited March 26, 2020 by sooth

[MDM]

2 hours ago, geogphotos said:

Sorry to be dumb, certainly too dumb to make estimations for which you need more skill and knowledge than I possess.

 

Please could I have a simple shopping list so that my Canon 5D mk 3 plus 100m L lens can work with a Nikon ES-1

 

1) ES-1

2) ?

3) ?

4) ?

 

 

In case you haven't disappeared gracefully or otherwise, then you need something like this but you need several and it is impossible to say exactly how many as it depends on the minimum focus distance of your lens. Given their cheapness, I would suggest that you get more than you need. Earliest delivery is late April now on these ones but you might find them elsewhere. I bought them in a few different sizes so I had some flexibility. You will also need a step down ring to go from 67mm to 52mm. So the 67 side attaches to the front of your lens and the thread on these tubes is 52 mm like the ES-1 itself. If you can't get a single 67-52 you can two and combine.

[MDM]

4 minutes ago, sooth said:

ES-1 will work better with the non-L macro with extension rings alone.  ES-1 won't work with the L-macro unless you also add to the mix, a stepdown ring(s); theoretically, the end result could lead to vignetting and require possible slight cropping.  

 

 

That bit you quoted about vignetting and tunnel effect was a silly mistake on my part. I thought it had gone away but seeing as you mentioned it I better explain. I had actually attached a wide angle lens which looked very like another 67mm macro lens I have to the ES-1. I only realised it later when I decided to check it out again. So there is no tunnel effect or vignetting. Forgive me please 🤓😎.

 

Anyway the important things are these extenders that fit in front of the lens, not normal extension rings that go behind the lens.

[Harry Harrison]

1 hour ago, geogphotos said:

Okay, thanks I'll gracefully bow out of this. I don't want to be annoying. 

I'd be very surprised if the measurements that Kevin gave won't be the same for your lens but using your tripod arrangement you can set your lens for 1:1, or thereabouts to give you a little bit of cropping leeway, and then measure the distance from the lens to the slide. Then deduct the length of the ES-1 as Kevin has explained and then work out which combination of extension rings and step down rings you need. MDM preferred to buy 52mm rings but the 58mm rings would be just as good and come in a good range of suitable lengths. Obviously you'll need to buy the appropriate step-down ring(s) according to whether you go for 52mm or 58mm diam. extension rings. 

 

It will be worth the effort but you do need to invest a bit of time in understanding what we are describing. It will be so much better than what you are doing at the moment.

[M.Chapman]

6 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

 

Okay, thanks I'll gracefully bow out of this. I don't want to be annoying. 

 

No need to bow out. It's clear that you have already photographed a 35mm slide "freehand". Set it up a bit more carefully this time using a tripod to support your camera and lens above a 35mm slide on your lightbox. Move the camera as close to the slide as you can until, either the slide fills the field of view, or you reach the point where the lens refuses to focus any closer. Then measure the distance from the front of the lens (or the lens filter if you are keeping that on) to the slide and let us know what that distance is. No need to be deadly accurate, if you can find the distance within a few mm that will be fine.

 

Mark 

[spacecadet]

1 hour ago, geogphotos said:

 

Okay, thanks I'll gracefully bow out of this. I don't want to be annoying. 

Not annoying at all. It's what the forum is for.

 I happen to have learnt the reproduction ratio stuff years ago so I'm just reeling it off. That dates me on its own- since when did recordings come on a reel.😀

[geogphotos]

Well truly touched by all this but to be honest have still not had an answer that I can understand as per my OP.

 

I have a Canon 5D.

 

What exactly do I need to buy to be able to copy 35mm slides in the way that has been described here ( I think using a Nikon camera) using a slide holder illuminated by a light source behind

 

I am prepared to buy what is needed and would prefer to get properly set up.

 

lens?

 

adapter?

 

slide holder?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

[M.Chapman]

Deleted

Edited March 27, 2020 by M.Chapman

[M.Chapman]

12 hours ago, geogphotos said:

Well truly touched by all this but to be honest have still not had an answer that I can understand as per my OP.

 

I have a Canon 5D.

 

What exactly do I need to buy to be able to copy 35mm slides in the way that has been described here ( I think using a Nikon camera) using a slide holder illuminated by a light source behind

 

I am prepared to buy what is needed and would prefer to get properly set up.

 

lens?

 

adapter?

 

slide holder?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

Camera = Canon 5D

Lens = your 100mm Canon L macro lens

Slideholder = Nikon ES-1

Adapters = 67 to 52mm step down ring and spacers (see exact details below)

 

There's no particular "magic" to the ES-1 that means it will only work with Nikon. The ES-1 is just an adjustable length metal tube, with slide holder and light diffuser at one end, and a filter thread at the other. It happens to be designed so that it works without any extension tube/spacers/adaptors with the right Nikon macro lens. But it will also work with other manufacturers' macro lenses too. It's just a case of getting the right thread and the spacing roughly right (by screwing in a step down ring and some extension tube(s)) and then using the adjustment range of the the ES-1 to make the final tweak.

 

Ken Rockwell quotes the minimum working distance of the 100mm Canon L as 133mm (see here https://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/lenses/100mm-f28-is.htm#spex)

He doesn't quote the front lens element diameter, but I can see from the photo see it looks to be less than 40mm, so 52mm extension tubes should be just fine (no danger of vignetting even at f2.8.

 

I also note Kevin (above) needed around 81mm of extension to get the ES-1 to work with his 100mm (non-L) Canon, which is a similar, but not identical lens.

 

So, if it was me ordering the bits, I'd buy the following;

 

1 off - Nikon ES-1 (wherever you can get the best price)

1 off - 67-52mm step down ring for £4.99 from Amazon https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00ZUCCZIS

4 off - 52mm x 28mm long extension tube spacers from Amazon at £7.99 each https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B009VPPZYQ (Thanks MDM)

 

You may only need to use 3 of the spacers, but if you buy 4 you will have the option of shooting below 1:1. This will making slide positioning a little less critical and you can crop in PS later.

 

Job done (providing you have a suitable light source. You could use daylight, but I wouldn't recommend it).

 

Mark

Edited March 27, 2020 by M.Chapman