Windows 10 vs. Linux

[Harry Harrison]

5 hours ago, MDM said:

Check out Mac Upgrades - company near Cambridge specialising in  all things Mac

Thanks, great website

[M.Chapman]

John, Harry, a few hidden costs you might want to be aware of if you do decide to try a Mac.

 

If you're running an older version of MS Office under Windows, you may find that you don't have a licence to run on a Mac, as this has to be purchased separately. The licence restriction on Mac version is also more restrictive (doesn't allow re-install without contacting MS). Although MS Office for Mac and MS Office for Windows are highly compatible they aren't 100%. If you rely on some of the more advanced features in MS Office (especially Excel VBA) you may find that spreadsheets created in Windows MS Office don't operate correctly in Mac MS Office. If you don't need 100% Office compatibility and are happy to adapt then Libre Office is pretty good free alternative that runs on Windows, Linux and Mac.

 

But if you need/want to stick with MS Office and decide to go for a Mac, instead of buying another Office licence (for Mac), I recommend buying a Parallels licence instead. Then you can install a copy of Windows 7 and Office (and any other Windows 7 programs that you want which don't need internet access) into a Virtual Machine and run them as if they were apps on your Mac. Parallels works really, really well and is easy to set up. I found Parallels very useful as it softened my transition from Windows to Mac. I was able to become familiar with Mac apps one at a time, rather than all at once because I still had direct access to my Windows programs.

 

I still use Parallels today to run MS Office 2010 for Windows and some Windows only programs. Providing you get  8GB of RAM it works well with minimal hit on performance. I wouldn't recommend running PS or LR in the VM though. 

 

Another hidden cost, if you want to connect a MacBook to an external monitor, is you'll need a special adapter or cable. Although there are cheap 3rd party versions of these, some of them don't work as well as the Apple Version.

 

Mark

Edited August 4, 2019 by M.Chapman

[Autumn Sky]

I'm not trying to do a commercial for Apple,  in fact I don't even like several aspects of company as a whole, but as end consumer all it matters is bang for your buck, right?  I have MacBook Pro 15 inch bought in 2009 (!!!) and it still runs.  It was hammered, abused, had wine spilled over the keyboard, battery is now gone as consequence, keyboard gets non-responsive at times, etc etc -- but it still runs.    Yes price tag was higher but at the end for the same $$$ I'd probably have gone through 2 or 3 win based machines (I use computers a lot for variety of tasks) so money would even out but I have better end user experience like this.  I like to say "you can get 1 pair of Levis or 3 pairs of brand name jeans in Walmart for same amount of money.  At the end all 3 Walmart ones will rip faster than single Levis".

 

That being said,  latest MacBook Pro 15 inch model is insanely priced -- 3500 CAD for a laptop??  I chatted with employee at Mac Store & was told they are now primarily purchased by corporate, while "small operators" have been priced out.

 

But there are other options.   iMac 21 inch with Retina goes for ~1700 CAD and this is solid, albeit stationary, investment that will go for many years.  Then add MacBook Air 13 inch for another 1700 CAD and you have 2 for 1;  sync is not a big issue, but you are mobile & can travel with it too. Big deal for photographers being able to process & maybe upload photos while trekking far away from home.

 

One can also go refurbished way;  they still have Apple warranty. I'd never buy refurbished but it is an option.

[John Mitchell]

3 hours ago, M.Chapman said:

John, Harry, a few hidden costs you might want to be aware of if you do decide to try a Mac.

 

If you're running an older version of MS Office under Windows, you may find that you don't have a licence to run on a Mac, as this has to be purchased separately. The licence restriction on Mac version is also more restrictive (doesn't allow re-install without contacting MS). Although MS Office for Mac and MS Office for Windows are highly compatible they aren't 100%. If you rely on some of the more advanced features in MS Office (especially Excel VBA) you may find that spreadsheets created in Windows MS Office don't operate correctly in Mac MS Office. If you don't need 100% Office compatibility and are happy to adapt then Libre Office is pretty good free alternative that runs on Windows, Linux and Mac.

 

But if you need/want to stick with MS Office and decide to go for a Mac, instead of buying another Office licence (for Mac), I recommend buying a Parallels licence instead. Then you can install a copy of Windows 7 and Office (and any other Windows 7 programs that you want which don't need internet access) into a Virtual Machine and run them as if they were apps on your Mac. Parallels works really, really well and is easy to set up. I found Parallels very useful as it softened my transition from Windows to Mac. I was able to become familiar with Mac apps one at a time, rather than all at once because I still had direct access to my Windows programs.

 

I still use Parallels today to run MS Office 2010 for Windows and some Windows only programs. Providing you get  8GB of RAM it works well with minimal hit on performance. I wouldn't recommend running PS or LR in the VM though. 

 

Another hidden cost, if you want to connect a MacBook to an external monitor, is you'll need a special adapter or cable. Although there are cheap 3rd party versions of these, some of them don't work as well as the Apple Version.

 

Mark

 

Thanks for the suggestions, Mark. Interesting to hear what can be done with a little ingenuity. I've been using LibreOffice, so no problem there. However, I'll probably stick with clunky PC's, being frugal by both nature and necessity. My current Windows 7 machine is a hand-me-down that was assembled locally. It cost me a song, runs fast, and has been super reliable. If it does the job, then that is all I really care about. One odd thing about my current computer is that it won't accept RAM upgrades. It has only 4 GB, which fortunately is adequate for the older software that I'm using. However, I do occasionally run out of memory when processing large image files. I've tried to add an additional 4 GB on a couple of occasions without success -- i.e. it won't recognize new RAM. I took the computer to my favourite computer guy, and he couldn't figure out the problem either. Since, by the looks of it,  I will eventually be switching to a Windows 10 machine with more RAM, I won't bother trying to add additional memory at this point, but it is curious. I've never had any problems like this with other PCs that I've owned. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by John Mitchell

[Harry Harrison]

4 hours ago, M.Chapman said:

John, Harry, a few hidden costs you might want to be aware of if you do decide to try a Mac.

Thanks Mark, all very useful information. There are definitely programs that I would miss if I switched entirely to Mac so I probably won't do that but I like the look of the MacPro laptop when my Lenovo bites the dust. I enjoy using the Imac that we have and may even try that with an external monitor for PP, I think I can get a genuine adapter cable quite cheaply for that. 

 

I've also got an old G5 floor standing machine which I can't really use as it is on 10.5, but it is a work of art really, beautifully designed and so easy to access and expand. Pity they gave up on that style really.

[Betty LaRue]

I know the Mac vs PC is like Canon vs Nikon arguments. Just sayin’.

I used PCs from the start.  Got tired of the crashes. Got tired of the grey screen “safe” mode that struck terror in my bones.

 

Got an IMac and never looked back. Smooth sailing all the way. The extra in cost is worth my not having PC meltdowns (and my own).

Not saying Macs can’t have problems, any machine can. It’s just that on the whole Macs are more reliable. I did use Parallels with my first Mac. It was like a security blanket that I seldom used.

Betty

[John Mitchell]

1 hour ago, Betty LaRue said:

I know the Mac vs PC is like Canon vs Nikon arguments. Just sayin’.

I used PCs from the start.  Got tired of the crashes. Got tired of the grey screen “safe” mode that struck terror in my bones.

 

Got an IMac and never looked back. Smooth sailing all the way. The extra in cost is worth my not having PC meltdowns (and my own).

Not saying Macs can’t have problems, any machine can. It’s just that on the whole Macs are more reliable. I did use Parallels with my first Mac. It was like a security blanket that I seldom used.

Betty

 

I haven't had any of those annoying PC problems for about ten years. Things have improved greatly since the "old days" -- or perhaps I've just lucked out.

[Brian Yarvin]

Look at this thread! Poor Linux has been completely forgotten about.

[Betty LaRue]

12 minutes ago, Brian Yarvin said:

Look at this thread! Poor Linux has been completely forgotten about.

😂

[Brian Yarvin]

Mr. Mac entered the room and everybody else was pushed aside.

[Autumn Sky]

1 hour ago, Brian Yarvin said:

Mr. Mac entered the room and everybody else was pushed aside.

LOL!!

This about sums it all up 🤑

[MizBrown]

On 03/08/2019 at 12:47, John Mitchell said:

In a similar vein, I have an old Acer Aspire One Netbook that will be toast after support for Win 7 ends. I use it only for checking e-mail, Web browsing, and backing up RAW files when travelling. Can anyone recommend an easy-to-use, lightweight Linux distro (with good security) for this machine? I'd hate to have to use it as a paperweight.

 

Here are the specs:

 

Intel Atom 1.67 Ghz processor

1 GB RAM

32-bit OS

170 GB HD

 

Thanks.

 

UPDATE: I found this website. Any of these distros sound good?

 

I used Linux for a while and even had a Solaris desktop at one time.  Some of the less well known OSen seem to be easier to configure than some of the others.  NetBSD is configured with flat files (text files edited with a text editor).

 

The advice to try a few and see what you like.  For email, copying files, and browsing, any of them should be okay.  Graphics programs for just viewing files are available, and GIMP may be reading for real photo editing (not editing jpegs for the web) by now.

 

[sb photos]

5 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

 

I haven't had any of those annoying PC problems for about ten years. Things have improved greatly since the "old days" -- or perhaps I've just lucked out.

 

Long ago I used to run CPM, then DOS, dabbled with Xenix 286/386, then Windows, remembering Windows 1.1 bundled on a Tandon 286. Used my first Mac in 1987, had my own a few years later. In more recent years have run Windows 7 and now 10 under Boot Camp, but only for a few electronics/technical applications not available for the Mac. During the limited time I've run Windows 10 it has been stable, but personally I don't like it, Windows 7 had a better feel. Either Boot Camp or Parallels gives the Mac user the possibility of running Windows for applications they would miss if they switched.

Edited August 5, 2019 by sb photos

[M.Chapman]

5 hours ago, Brian Yarvin said:

Look at this thread! Poor Linux has been completely forgotten about.

 

Yes, it's a real shame. Linux Mint Mate has a lovely clean and consistent user interface that's easy to use (unlike Windows 10 that's a dog's dinner). But there's no way to run PS, LR and MS Office applications on it other than via a Virtual machine (which kind of defeats the point). I've tried other options like WINE and Crossover and Libre Office, but there's always something that doesn't quite work. If I was starting all over again I'd definitely go for Linux, but I need to support and access so much legacy stuff now and have to deal with businesses who expect to send and receive 100% MS Office compatible files. There's also quite a learning curve for GIMP and DarkTable.

 

But... Linux does keep improving, so every so often I try again..

 

Mark

[wiskerke]

10 hours ago, Brian Yarvin said:

Mr. Mac entered the room and everybody else was pushed aside.

 

No problem if you have deep pockets. Can I have a Tesla with it while we're at it?

 

So what would a desktop Apple cost with two 24 inch 10bit displays; 32Gb; 1TB ssd; 20 TB hdds; 10bit graph...

Ooohh wait stop - there is no desktop system: only iMacs. There's an iMac Pro 2017 starting at € 5.497,91 which sort of does what my machine does. Except for a second screen and the storage.

The desktops will come though: this fall.

The specs look promising and definitely faster than my machine. Maybe not for Photoshop. But if you're into CGI or video, it will be faster. We have no price for it. But this article states it's the price of the cheapest Tesla. Hmm I think I'll have the Tesla in stead and continue working on PCs for now.

Mine was the price of a nice bicycle. Not my carbon road bike, but one of the decent ones. See my bikes are a bit like the Mac-Pc story too.

Apple makes great iPhones; iPads (and iProfits).

 

wim

 

edit: Ha! I just sold a Tesla 😁 this one 😜

Probably PU.

edit 2: No PU, but Presentation or newsletter

Edited August 5, 2019 by wiskerke

[noelbennett]

Another option,just to confuse you, turn your PC into a Chromebook, Googles OS, its free for personal use, very easy to install, and boots surprisingly fast. its a version of Linux. I tried it on an old laptop and was impressed.

 

https://www.neverware.com/#intro

[M.Chapman]

2 hours ago, noelbennett said:

Another option,just to confuse you, turn your PC into a Chromebook, Googles OS, its free for personal use, very easy to install, and boots surprisingly fast. its a version of Linux. I tried it on an old laptop and was impressed.

 

https://www.neverware.com/#intro

 

Excellent, thanks for that, I've got an old laptop I'll try it on.

 

Mark

[John Mitchell]

3 hours ago, noelbennett said:

Another option,just to confuse you, turn your PC into a Chromebook, Googles OS, its free for personal use, very easy to install, and boots surprisingly fast. its a version of Linux. I tried it on an old laptop and was impressed.

 

https://www.neverware.com/#intro

 

Sounds promising. I'll try it on my Netbook. Thanks.

 

 

[John Mitchell]

 

14 hours ago, Brian Yarvin said:

Mr. Mac entered the room and everybody else was pushed aside.

 

And it's only a matter of time before Mr. Nikon shows up as well (or has He been replaced by Ms. Fuji). 😍

[John Mitchell]

7 hours ago, noelbennett said:

Another option,just to confuse you, turn your PC into a Chromebook, Googles OS, its free for personal use, very easy to install, and boots surprisingly fast. its a version of Linux. I tried it on an old laptop and was impressed.

 

https://www.neverware.com/#intro

 

After some fiddling around, I managed to download this OS and try it on my Acer Netbook. It runs fast and seems perfect for e-mail and Web browsing. However, this is what I don't understand. Right now, I'm booting from a removable USB device. If I install the Chromebook OS permanently on my netbook's HD, as Google recommends, will I no longer be able to use Windows 7 -- i.e. will it not be possible to use both operating systems? In other words, can the two operating systems coexist on the same computer?

 

UPDATE: Uh-oh. I think this answers my question, as does this as well.

Edited August 5, 2019 by John Mitchell

[noelbennett]

I installed this a few years ago and can currently boot to either system. I was unaware of the those new arrangements.

 

https://cloudreadykb.neverware.com/s/article/What-happens-to-my-existing-files-and-operating-system-when-I-install-CloudReady

 

[John Mitchell]

There's a blog post about it here.

 

Sounds like you don't get updates any longer. Perhaps it's possible to install updates manually.

Edited August 5, 2019 by John Mitchell

[Betty LaRue]

9 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

 

 

And it's only a matter of time before Mr. Nikon shows up as well (or has He been replaced by Ms. Fuji). 😍

Ms Fuji says yes, Mr. Nikon has been replaced. Chuck and MDM will protest this statement. 

[M.Chapman]

7 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

There's a blog post about it here.

 

That's exactly why I dislike Windows 10, it can break stuff when updating and you can't stop it from doing it.... To corrupt a dual boot setup is not good.

 

Mark

[M.Chapman]

12 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

 

After some fiddling around, I managed to download this OS and try it on my Acer Netbook. It runs fast and seems perfect for e-mail and Web browsing. However, this is what I don't understand. Right now, I'm booting from a removable USB device. If I install the Chromebook OS permanently on my netbook's HD, as Google recommends, will I no longer be able to use Windows 7 -- i.e. will it not be possible to use both operating systems? In other words, can the two operating systems coexist on the same computer?

 

UPDATE: Uh-oh. I think this answers my question, as does this as well.

 

I just tried Neverware too on an old Toshiba notebook. I don't like it much. Why did they try to make the menus look like Windows 10? All "spaced out" so they don't fit on the screen and need scrolling with scroll bars that don't appear until you start scrolling.  I much prefer the UI of Linux Mint and Linux Mint Mate versions which are close to Windows 7.

 

Mark