losdemas Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 EDITED TEXT: Just been in touch with CR, who have assured me that they haven't licensed my image (below) to an editorial publication for online usage (possibility in print also). <IMAGE SNIP> I see that it has also been used by a county council on (at least) their Twitter feed. Have any contributors had direct dealings with these companies/organisations? Just trying to gauge invoice price level. Alamy's guide appears to be £29.99 - fine, if they had bothered to actually license it. Any suggestions for an additional % for, well, let's not beat around the bush - blatant theft? TIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDM Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 The Irish Independent is one of the major newspapers in Ireland so I would be very surprised if they would just grab an image and use it intentionally without licensing it. You should probably send them an invoice as I would be surprised if they refused to pay. I can't advise on how much to ask for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losdemas Posted March 13, 2019 Author Share Posted March 13, 2019 Just now, MDM said: The Irish Independent is one of the major newspapers in Ireland so I would be very surprised if they would just grab an image and use it without licensing it. You should probably send them an invoice as I would be surprised if they refused to pay. I can't advise on how much to ask for. It's has only ever been available for license via Alamy. My other outlets don't have this particular image. I have an (initial, polite enquiry) email ready to go, but it does appear that they have lifted it. Maybe an individual using it in error, but I don't see how this could be the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDM Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 9 minutes ago, MDM said: The Irish Independent is one of the major newspapers in Ireland so I would be very surprised if they would just grab an image and use it without licensing it. You should probably send them an invoice as I would be surprised if they refused to pay. I can't advise on how much to ask for. I don't know as I have never had any dealings with them but I would be really surprised if it was blatant image theft. The Irish Independent is one of the oldest national newspapers in Ireland and they would certainly be aware of the laws around image usage. Let's know how you get on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sally Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Would you not have to ask Alamy to chase this for you since it is available here? Edit: since it is an editorial use only today surely it will just be reported later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryptoprocta Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Just now, Sally said: Would you not have to ask Alamy to chase this for you since it is available here? I was surprised in the OP to see that Alamy confirmed no sale but didn't say they would follow it up. Mind you, Ireland 😞 Grrrr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avpics Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Odd. I reported an old Sun usage that they'd downloaded but not owned up to, and Alamy just processed the sale after the event. I'm surprised they haven't offered the same here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDM Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 16 minutes ago, Sally said: Would you not have to ask Alamy to chase this for you since it is available here? Edit: since it is an editorial use only today surely it will just be reported later. The article is dated December 2018. You are seeing today's date on the website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sally Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 17 minutes ago, MDM said: The article is dated December 2018. You are seeing today's date on the website. Ah Ok. Even so, these uses can take months to be reported and Alamy usually doesn’t want to know unless at least 4 months have elapsed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avpics Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, Sally said: Ah Ok. Even so, these uses can take months to be reported and Alamy usually doesn’t want to know unless at least 4 months have elapsed. They would know whether there was a download in the system, which doesn't appear to be the case given their response Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sally Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 16 minutes ago, Avpics said: They would know whether there was a download in the system, which doesn't appear to be the case given their response The system is hard to understand. I recently found two images used by a newspaper around seven months ago and never reported. Surely it would be in Alamy’s interest to look at their downloads to see if they match invoices rather than wait for the chance spot by a photographer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avpics Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 11 minutes ago, Sally said: The system is hard to understand. I recently found two images used by a newspaper around seven months ago and never reported. Surely it would be in Alamy’s interest to look at their downloads to see if they match invoices rather than wait for the chance spot by a photographer? It's an honesty box system as far as I understand, where the newspapers are concerned. Seems ludicrous but that would appear to be how it works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sally Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Avpics said: It's an honesty box system as far as I understand, where the newspapers are concerned. Seems ludicrous but that would appear to be how it works I agree it is completely ludicrous in this technological age. It appears to be a throwback to a pre-technology age, and I can only assume that either the newspapers have enough clout to ensure that it stays that way, or that the stock agencies don’t have the resources to put in a foolproof system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Alamy is always able to say if there's been a "relevant download", as they call it. Are you sure they're saying there isn't one? In which case where did they get it without a watermark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losdemas Posted March 13, 2019 Author Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 hour ago, spacecadet said: Alamy is always able to say if there's been a "relevant download", as they call it. Are you sure they're saying there isn't one? In which case where did they get it without a watermark? CR have told me that there is no download for this usage and that I am free to chase. The image has been licensed by Alamy several times before. Unless I've made some huge error somewhere (and I don't think so), then the only way I can see that they got it was via one of the other Alamy licences online (which are totally unrelated). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avpics Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 17 minutes ago, losdemas said: The image has been licensed by Alamy several times before......then the only way I can see that they got it was via one of the other Alamy licences online Ah, yes, that's entirely different and the most likely origin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sally Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 58 minutes ago, losdemas said: CR have told me that there is no download for this usage and that I am free to chase. The image has been licensed by Alamy several times before. Unless I've made some huge error somewhere (and I don't think so), then the only way I can see that they got it was via one of the other Alamy licences online (which are totally unrelated). I’m a bit confused about why Alamy doesn’t want to chase this. It would appear to fulfill their criteria ie it is in the EU and not a blog. What am I missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losdemas Posted March 13, 2019 Author Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Sally said: I’m a bit confused about why Alamy doesn’t want to chase this. It would appear to fulfill their criteria ie it is in the EU and not a blog. What am I missing? Umm, I'm confused now: they didn't license it - why would they chase it? They are not going to follow up on folk who rip off a licence that's been sold by them, otherwise that's all they'd be doing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sally Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, losdemas said: Umm, I'm confused now: they didn't license it - why would they chase it? I guess we are confusing each other. My understanding - unless 36 hours of travel from Vietnam to home has befuddled my brain and that is certainly very likely - was that if you have an image available on Alamy and spot a copyright infringement you should complete the unauthorised use form unless it is used in a country that Alamy cannot pursue or on a social media site etc. Only if Alamy try to chase it and later tell you that they have had no success would you be in a position to chase it yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losdemas Posted March 13, 2019 Author Share Posted March 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, Sally said: I guess we are confusing each other. My understanding - unless 36 hours of travel from Vietnam to home has befuddled my brain and that is certainly very likely - was that if you have an image available on Alamy and spot a copyright infringement you should complete the unauthorised use form unless it is used in a country that Alamy cannot pursue or on a social media site etc. Only if Alamy try to chase it and later tell you that they have had no success would you be in a position to chase it yourself. https://www.alamy.com/registration/unauthorised-use-form.aspx says: " We can’t chase unauthorised uses on your behalf if your image… Has been reproduced on another website as a direct copy of an original article which has a license. " which would appear to cover it. Alamy said: "Hi Danny, We’ve just had a look and it looks like we don’t have any downloads or licenses covering this use. You’re free to chase this yourself. Thanks, Ellie" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losdemas Posted March 13, 2019 Author Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 hours ago, kay said: I’m as confused as Sally as to why Alamy aren’t chasing his for you - I’d refer back for clarification if I were you My understanding of the wording that you have quoted from the unauthorised use form is that it means that they are unable to chase when a complete article has been directly copied including photos rather than if a photo has merely been copied and used for something else. Actually, I think you may both be right here. However, I'm pretty sure that Alamy have said before that they are unwilling to chase similar infringements. I shall contact them again to confirm that they are unwilling to chase before I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryptoprocta Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 35 minutes ago, losdemas said: Actually, I think you may both be right here. However, I'm pretty sure that Alamy have said before that they are unwilling to chase similar infringements. I shall contact them again to confirm that they are unwilling to chase before I do. I think they decide which they want to take on. I've had the message that they're not taking it on because it was an indirect infringement, but also a couple of occasions when they did so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starsphinx Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Oh for an agency that takes theft seriously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losdemas Posted March 14, 2019 Author Share Posted March 14, 2019 A follow-up: Alamy have said that they are happy to pursue this should I wish, but from my initial email it was assumed that I wished to chase it up myself - which i shall be doing. I will be editing my posts until I have completed my claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losdemas Posted March 14, 2019 Author Share Posted March 14, 2019 Email sent to publication concerned. A Google search reveals that this is not the first time they have done this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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