christian58 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I actually sent a friend here, an art-buyer from a smaller ad-agency. He came back to me and said he didn't want news pictures and so on. I searched it myself "oil-workers" since he wanted to buy some stuff and what do I see?? All editorial material on page one and on page 2, some demonmstrations with megaphones AGAINST the oil industry. Hahahahahahahaha! well some creative search isnt it? little wonder creative material is a complete waste of time here. Now I don't want to be associated with news this and news that. Unless they cull that particular search I will remove my own content from that search. I dont know, pugh! how can it be such a paraphernalia just to separate creative content from editorial. Evenm the micros can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Chapman Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 It looks OK to me if I search for Oil workers, although "oil-workers" throws up more editorial. Maybe this is related to the other problems with the search engine? Did you select the creative tab? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels Quist Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I am more surprised that it took you so long to find out. This is the strength and weakness of Alamy, I personally see it as a strength, this is not a stupid, single-minded micro site. You can set filters to get what you want, buyers shouldn't be too stupid to do that and often they will go these extra metres to get other images than micro stock offers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian58 Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 Nils! yeah it might be a strength under normal circumbstances but I can assure you when dealing with ad-agency people its just pure weakness and down out bad. Further more showing anti-industrial demonstration images etc in a creative search is pathetic, it means that in reallity these shots are used in a derogative manner! thats serious and can result in troubles. Back in 2004 a beautiful oil-refinery at sunset ( not my shot) was by mistake used in an anti-pollution and toxic campaign, the result ended in serious troubles and court battles for the photographer. Thats why I for security reasons have to remove my images unless the cull this particular collection. You have to understand, dealing with ordinary run of the mill buyers is one thing but dealing with ad-agency creatives is totally different, I do this every single day in commissioned photography and they don't want to see this crap. best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian58 Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 I am more surprised that it took you so long to find out. This is the strength and weakness of Alamy, I personally see it as a strength, this is not a stupid, single-minded micro site. You can set filters to get what you want, buyers shouldn't be too stupid to do that and often they will go these extra metres to get other images than micro stock offers. Nils! yeah it might be a strength under normal circumbstances but I can assure you when dealing with ad-agency people its just pure weakness and down out bad. Further more showing anti-industrial demonstration images etc in a creative search is pathetic, it means that in reallity these shots are used in a derogative manner! thats serious and can result in troubles. Back in 2004 a beautiful oil-refinery at sunset ( not my shot) was by mistake used in an anti-pollution and toxic campaign, the result ended in serious troubles and court battles for the photographer. Thats why I for security reasons have to remove my images unless the cull this particular collection. You have to understand, dealing with ordinary run of the mill buyers is one thing but dealing with ad-agency creatives is totally different, I do this every single day in commissioned photography and they don't want to see this crap. best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Carlsson Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Default settings, searching just "oil-workers" seems fine to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I'm sure an individual photographer can't exclude his images from a particular search term. Also, it's not helpful to refer to a fellow contributor's material as "crap". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vpics Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Easy solution. Just search for "oil worker" NOT "protest. I just had a look at some of your images. Nice shots, but you do realise that digital alterations should be indicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Carlsson Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Nils! yeah it might be a strength under normal circumbstances but I can assure you when dealing with ad-agency people its just pure weakness and down out bad. Further more showing anti-industrial demonstration images etc in a creative search is pathetic, it means that in reallity these shots are used in a derogative manner! thats serious and can result in troubles. Back in 2004 a beautiful oil-refinery at sunset ( not my shot) was by mistake used in an anti-pollution and toxic campaign, the result ended in serious troubles and court battles for the photographer. Thats why I for security reasons have to remove my images unless the cull this particular collection. You have to understand, dealing with ordinary run of the mill buyers is one thing but dealing with ad-agency creatives is totally different, I do this every single day in commissioned photography and they don't want to see this crap. best. I don't think you did a "creative" search. You did the default search which shows "creative" first, then seamlessly moves into relevant. It is very easy/quick to only get creative material by making sure it is fully released (tick the release boxes). Remember that the default search has to cater too many people, and it only takes very basic search skills to narrow down the search either by filters or keywording (AND, NOT, OR etc) - any regular image buyer would know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian58 Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 Sure Martin first page looks fantasticdon't it, really inspiring and adventurous, exciting!! all in blue topcreativeand of course not any editorial overtones. So why don't you post PAGE-2 where all the derogative to industry-pictures comes, anti this, demonstrations etc. Thats really a creative search isn't it. First law of any stock-agency: never let a picture by a photograper run the risk of being used in a derogatiove manner or message! goes with the territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Carlsson Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 give me a second and I'll post it. Also, unless I restrict it or withhold it, I assume that an image can/will be used in a manner that I don't like (i.e. sensitive uses) - goes with the territory as far as I'm concerned. Take politics and stock images for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Carlsson Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Here is page 2 - default search "oil-workers" (which means both RM and RF, no preference to if the images are released or not, or have restrictions on them). At some point on this page "creative" moves into "relevant" territory - which is full of creative images as well, just not picked to be "creative". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Carlsson Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 If one were to tick model and property released one would find 433 fully released images of "oil-workers" with no protesters (which were your main concern right?). Added time 200ms and intuitive - it's there right next to search box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Carlsson Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 and if one were hell-bent on using an image for derogatory purpose (unless illustrative (editorial)) you would deliberately be breaking the following license clauses - which is pretty much standard everywhere. 3.1.7 You may not use the Image/Video(s) in a pornographic, defamatory, fraudulent, lewd, obscene or otherwise illegal manner, including but not limited to infringing any third party intellectual property or privacy rights, whether directly or in context or by juxtaposition with other materials. or 3.2.9 If any Image/Video featuring a model is used in (i) a manner that would lead a reasonable person to believe that the model personally uses or endorses a product or service, or (ii) if the depiction of the model in the Image/Video would be unflattering or unduly controversial to a reasonable person, you must accompany each such use with a statement indicating that the person is a model and the Image/Video is being used for illustrative purposes only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSnapper Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 As Martin says, if you're wanting images to be used for commercial purposes, then checking the MR and PR boxes will give you a nice 'clean' collection safe for advertising use Not an issue, and not a problem; the serach engine works exactly as it it should.. surely your picture buyer knows how to limit searches to only show released images? km Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 A search for keyword "oil workers" with both MR and PR comes up with 22 images. All Cultura. None of yours Christian. Could it be a keyword issue as well? wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian58 Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 A search for keyword "oil workers" with both MR and PR comes up with 22 images. All Cultura. None of yours Christian. Could it be a keyword issue as well? wim No Wim! all my 2500 images everywhere have MR's and when it needs PR's. This is not the issue. Look at page 2 of this search where you see anti-demonstrations, global-warming, etc, i.e. in the same search you see, pro oil-industry and anti oil-industry. This is the issue. The people with megaphones, demonstraters etc, now that should be in the news-search, NOT the creative search. Of course when the brain capacity isn't enough to see the difference between news and creative, yes it opens itself to problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSnapper Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 "Of course when the brain capacity isn't enough to see the difference between news and creative, yes it opens itself to problems." Or when the brain capacity doesn't extend to checking the model and property released boxes when searching for creative images cleared for commercial use... km Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vpics Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 What is a creative image anyway? An image where the photographer has used creativity to capture it? Which doesn't exclude news photographers. At least, most of the ones I know are pretty creative. Or do you mean an image for "commercial use"? Eg a ready-made image that is both model & property released and can be bought off the shelf for advertising? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 A search for keyword "oil workers" with both MR and PR comes up with 22 images. All Cultura. None of yours Christian. Could it be a keyword issue as well? wim No Wim! all my 2500 images everywhere have MR's and when it needs PR's. This is not the issue. Look at page 2 of this search where you see anti-demonstrations, global-warming, etc, i.e. in the same search you see, pro oil-industry and anti oil-industry. This is the issue. The people with megaphones, demonstraters etc, now that should be in the news-search, NOT the creative search. Of course when the brain capacity isn't enough to see the difference between news and creative, yes it opens itself to problems. Christian, I meant the words Oil Workers; do you have them in that order in your keywords? Because when I search for "oil workers" yours do not turn up. Is that because of your keywords (and those of others maybe?). Or is it the fault of the search engine? wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian58 Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 "Of course when the brain capacity isn't enough to see the difference between news and creative, yes it opens itself to problems." Or when the brain capacity doesn't extend to checking the model and property released boxes when searching for creative images cleared for commercial use... km what for? two headlines: creative and news. Obviously creative should contain just that. News: just that or else whats the point. You think all buyer, new ones, etc think about clicking some release box BEFORE searching. Most buyer will simply use a default. Thats it. This is so stupid I can not believe it. How can anybody defend the fact of a mixed search aimed at two totally different markets. Blimey any editor that I know weather its newspaper or a glossy magazine would know the difference between creative and news, speaks for itself. Right now and probably the biggest agency in the world is debating about the removal of all collections, all clicking boxes and roll-downs, all the search distractions with the exception of NEWS/EDITORIAL since its uploaded separately anyway, simply because they have realized it just confuses buyers, ordinary buyers. Here??? here we can't even separate creative from news. WOW!! how completely inspiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jill Morgan Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I find it hard it believe a professional agency photo editor isn't going to filter 50 million or so images to get what he/she is looking for. When I choose Creative, you have to get to the bottom of page 2 before the Relevant images start appearing. Exactly the way the images are to be shown. Jill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian58 Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 A search for keyword "oil workers" with both MR and PR comes up with 22 images. All Cultura. None of yours Christian. Could it be a keyword issue as well? wim No Wim! all my 2500 images everywhere have MR's and when it needs PR's. This is not the issue. Look at page 2 of this search where you see anti-demonstrations, global-warming, etc, i.e. in the same search you see, pro oil-industry and anti oil-industry. This is the issue. The people with megaphones, demonstraters etc, now that should be in the news-search, NOT the creative search. Of course when the brain capacity isn't enough to see the difference between news and creative, yes it opens itself to problems. Christian, I meant the words Oil Workers; do you have them in that order in your keywords? Because when I search for "oil workers" yours do not turn up. Is that because of your keywords (and those of others maybe?). Or is it the fault of the search engine? wim Yes they do Wim! they start coming up on page three, quite a few of them actually. Look! I am NOT complaining about the search position, thats OK. I am debating weather or not all these bloody demonstrators, helicopters, this and that should be in a creative search regardless of ticking-boxes or not. From a buyers point, it looks slap-dash, it looks as if somebody can't do their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Brook Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 "Of course when the brain capacity isn't enough to see the difference between news and creative, yes it opens itself to problems." Or when the brain capacity doesn't extend to checking the model and property released boxes when searching for creative images cleared for commercial use... km I don’t think ticking boxes is the problem While Alamy’s strength is its appeal to press, secondary editorial and textbook markets, commercial buyers, who are already spoilt for choice, simply go elsewhere. There is plenty of statistical evidence for this. Aside from the three majors, just about every new agency is now commercial, and large chunks of some specialist agencies are commercial too. Which begs the question: should not Alamy be doing more to promote itself as the top editorial agency, with more emphasis on documentary and hard news, rather than trying to be a jack of all trades? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian58 Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 I find it hard it believe a professional agency photo editor isn't going to filter 50 million or so images to get what he/she is looking for. When I choose Creative, you have to get to the bottom of page 2 before the Relevant images start appearing. Exactly the way the images are to be shown. Jill A: stock-photo editors should filter them before they are going into files. B: of course no buyer is going to filter through 50 million images and they would NOT HAVE TO, if they were filtered by the stock-agency editors at the stage when accepted. What happens if you never cull or edit a selection? yes you do end up with millions of files all in a giant jumble sale down petticoat-lane. You might as well open a flee-market in Morocco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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