Creative search is full of news pictures!

[Martin Carlsson]

 

I find it hard it believe a professional agency photo editor isn't going to filter 50 million or so images to get what he/she is looking for.  When I choose Creative, you have to get to the bottom of page 2 before the Relevant images start appearing. Exactly the way the images are to be shown.

 

Jill

A:  stock-photo editors should filter them before they are going into files. B: of course no buyer is going to filter through 50 million images and they would NOT HAVE TO, if they were filtered by the stock-agency editors at the stage when accepted.

 

What happens if you never cull or edit a selection?  yes you do end up with millions of files all in a giant jumble sale down petticoat-lane. You might as well open a flee-market in Morocco.

 

 

A: That is not how Alamy works (no editing). B: Still Alamy doesn't have any editors, never had.

 

That is why you here can find a lot of stuff that you can't find elsewhere, as well as all the usual stuff. The collection is massive, but utilizing simple keywording techniques (the same as when you search something specific on Google) you can very quickly get down to a manageable  search result that leads you to the perfect, perhaps unique image that couldn't be found anywhere else.

 

1. Use more than one keyword

2. Use AND, OR, NOT to refine you search i.e. "human AND dog OR cat NOT elephant"

3. Use the tickboxes next to the search box RM/RF, MR or not, PR or not.

 

Use above and even the broadest of topics becomes manageable, and people do as evidenced in All of Alamy (Measures).

[christian58]

 

"Of course when the brain capacity isn't enough to see the difference between news and creative, yes it opens itself to problems."

 

Or when the brain capacity doesn't extend to checking the model and property released boxes when searching for creative images cleared for commercial use...

 

 

km

I don’t think ticking boxes is the problem

 

While Alamy’s strength is its appeal to press, secondary editorial and textbook markets, commercial buyers, who are already spoilt for choice, simply go elsewhere. There is plenty of statistical evidence for this. Aside from the three majors, just about every new agency is now commercial, and large chunks of some specialist agencies are commercial too.

 

Which begs the question: should not Alamy be doing more to promote itself as the top editorial agency, with more emphasis on documentary and hard news, rather than trying to be a jack of all trades?

 

Agreeing 100%. This would be a much better idea! that way one would know if its worthwhile uploading or not.

[christian58]

 

 

 

 

A search for keyword "oil workers" with both MR and PR comes up with 22 images. All Cultura. None of yours Christian. Could it be a keyword issue as well?

 

wim

No Wim! all my 2500 images everywhere have MR's and when it needs PR's. This is not the issue. Look at page 2 of this search where you see anti-demonstrations, global-warming, etc, i.e. in the same search you see, pro oil-industry and anti oil-industry. This is the issue. The people with megaphones, demonstraters etc, now that should be in the news-search, NOT the creative search.

 

Of course when the brain capacity isn't enough to see the difference between news and creative, yes it opens itself to problems.

 

Christian,

I meant the words Oil Workers; do you have them in that order in your keywords? Because when I search for "oil workers" yours do not turn up. Is that because of your keywords (and those of others maybe?). Or is it the fault of the search engine?

 

wim

 

Yes they do Wim!  they start coming up on page three, quite a few of them actually. Look!  I am NOT complaining about the search position, thats OK. I am debating weather or not all these bloody demonstrators, helicopters, this and that should be in a creative search regardless of ticking-boxes or not.

 

From a buyers point, it looks slap-dash, it looks as if somebody can't do their job.

 

 

Christian, for the FOURTH time (Martin, me, Jill) in this thread: "... shows "creative" first, then seamlessly moves into relevant"

Is there a word in the sentence above your brain capacity doesn't understand?

 

Cheers,

Philippe

 

Well Philipe!  I am sorry but somehow I have to use artificial intelligence, since my own brain is completely out of order to follow the logic of these conversations and if they are mind-boggling to most of us. Next question is: how is it then for the buyer?

I am a qualifies Taxi-Dermist you see, so get stuffed!  hahaha! just kidding!

[christian58]

Sure, Butch. And I guess now it's Sundance turn to chime in and cover your back (as usual in your discussions) 

 

Just kidding!

 

Cheers,

Philippe

Yeah but where is the he!  I need a fast six-shooter!

[wiskerke]

From today's sales. I kid you not:

 

Sundance State bank on Main Street in Sundance, Wyoming, small town in the American Midwest where the Sundance Kid got his name.

 

Christian,

-still think you should try quotation marks to see what the result is.

 

wim

[christian58]

 

From today's sales. I kid you not:

 

Sundance State bank on Main Street in Sundance, Wyoming, small town in the American Midwest where the Sundance Kid got his name.

 

Christian,

-still think you should try quotation marks to see what the result is.

 

wim

 

Are you serious?? if so, some coincidence!!  funny!   so thats where this gunslinger was born? interesting......... quotation-marks??   but when I search for "oil-workers"  I don't use any marks and on page three my images start showing, and 0n pages 4,5,6. I just use the default thats all. I am happy with that position.

[wiskerke]

 

 

From today's sales. I kid you not:

<>

Sundance State bank on Main Street in Sundance, Wyoming, small town in the American Midwest where the Sundance Kid got his name.

 

Christian,

-still think you should try quotation marks to see what the result is.

 

wim

 

Are you serious?? if so, some coincidence!!  funny!   so thats where this gunslinger was born? interesting......... quotation-marks??   but when I search for "oil-workers"  I don't use any marks and on page three my images start showing, and 0n pages 4,5,6. I just use the default thats all. I am happy with that position.

 

 

Yep today's Pseudonym Summary revealed the keyword.

Now brace yourself:

 

"main street" sign

 

with quotation marks!

But if you do not have your oil workers in the correct order, you will not see those used in your searches. I see them all the time.

 

wim

[christian58]

 

 

 

From today's sales. I kid you not:

<>

Sundance State bank on Main Street in Sundance, Wyoming, small town in the American Midwest where the Sundance Kid got his name.

 

Christian,

-still think you should try quotation marks to see what the result is.

 

wim

 

Are you serious?? if so, some coincidence!!  funny!   so thats where this gunslinger was born? interesting......... quotation-marks??   but when I search for "oil-workers"  I don't use any marks and on page three my images start showing, and 0n pages 4,5,6. I just use the default thats all. I am happy with that position.

 

 

Yep today's Pseudonym Summary revealed the keyword.

Now brace yourself:

 

"main street" sign

 

with quotation marks!

But if you do not have your oil workers in the correct order, you will not see those used in your searches. I see them all the time.

 

wim

 

Thats a lot!  you know something just hit me here. Of course we sit here and in the end we sort it out, keywords, search, etc.... but the important thing are the buyers, how can they be aware of this, using quotation marks, etc?

 

BTW: I did search "oil workers"  with quotations, and some of my pics came up on page 1 in the search. Thats fine but I am surrounded with the same demonstration people and anti-pollution etc. Well guess one has to live with it.

[wiskerke]

 

 

 

 

From today's sales. I kid you not:

<>

Sundance State bank on Main Street in Sundance, Wyoming, small town in the American Midwest where the Sundance Kid got his name.

 

Christian,

-still think you should try quotation marks to see what the result is.

 

wim

 

Are you serious?? if so, some coincidence!!  funny!   so thats where this gunslinger was born? interesting......... quotation-marks??   but when I search for "oil-workers"  I don't use any marks and on page three my images start showing, and 0n pages 4,5,6. I just use the default thats all. I am happy with that position.

 

 

Yep today's Pseudonym Summary revealed the keyword.

Now brace yourself:

 

"main street" sign

 

with quotation marks!

But if you do not have your oil workers in the correct order, you will not see those used in your searches. I see them all the time.

 

wim

 

Thats a lot!  you know something just hit me here. Of course we sit here and in the end we sort it out, keywords, search, etc.... but the important thing are the buyers, how can they be aware of this, using quotation marks, etc?

 

 

Yes my pet peeve exactly.

However, in the case of quotation marks, they are being used, so I make sure I cater for that.

I do not use quotation marks myself, only for my name in my keywords. It's just the proper logical keyword order.

I think it was James C who remarked somewhere (video?) that they saw searches becoming more and more like logical phrases or sentences.

 

wim

[Martin Carlsson]

 

 

 

 

From today's sales. I kid you not:

<>

Sundance State bank on Main Street in Sundance, Wyoming, small town in the American Midwest where the Sundance Kid got his name.

 

Christian,

-still think you should try quotation marks to see what the result is.

 

wim

 

Are you serious?? if so, some coincidence!!  funny!   so thats where this gunslinger was born? interesting......... quotation-marks??   but when I search for "oil-workers"  I don't use any marks and on page three my images start showing, and 0n pages 4,5,6. I just use the default thats all. I am happy with that position.

 

 

Yep today's Pseudonym Summary revealed the keyword.

Now brace yourself:

 

"main street" sign

 

with quotation marks!

But if you do not have your oil workers in the correct order, you will not see those used in your searches. I see them all the time.

 

wim

 

Thats a lot!  you know something just hit me here. Of course we sit here and in the end we sort it out, keywords, search, etc.... but the important thing are the buyers, how can they be aware of this, using quotation marks, etc?

 

BTW: I did search "oil workers"  with quotations, and some of my pics came up on page 1 in the search. Thats fine but I am surrounded with the same demonstration people and anti-pollution etc. Well guess one has to live with it.

 

 

It is called Boolean searching. It is used in whole or in part in so many different things - from Google, to any database, picture libraries, computer programming, Excel spreadsheets. 

 

http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/TeachingLib/Guides/Internet/Boolean.pdf

[mickfly]

I can't see the word 'workers' in all your oil images, in the description, yes, but only 'work' in many of the keywords.

I did also notice, as has been mentioned above that you don't mark as digitally altered when you superimpose said oil-workers into container ports, macro cog shots etc.

[christian58]

 

 

 

 

 

From today's sales. I kid you not:

<>

Sundance State bank on Main Street in Sundance, Wyoming, small town in the American Midwest where the Sundance Kid got his name.

 

Christian,

-still think you should try quotation marks to see what the result is.

 

wim

 

Are you serious?? if so, some coincidence!!  funny!   so thats where this gunslinger was born? interesting......... quotation-marks??   but when I search for "oil-workers"  I don't use any marks and on page three my images start showing, and 0n pages 4,5,6. I just use the default thats all. I am happy with that position.

 

 

Yep today's Pseudonym Summary revealed the keyword.

Now brace yourself:

 

"main street" sign

 

with quotation marks!

But if you do not have your oil workers in the correct order, you will not see those used in your searches. I see them all the time.

 

wim

 

Thats a lot!  you know something just hit me here. Of course we sit here and in the end we sort it out, keywords, search, etc.... but the important thing are the buyers, how can they be aware of this, using quotation marks, etc?

 

BTW: I did search "oil workers"  with quotations, and some of my pics came up on page 1 in the search. Thats fine but I am surrounded with the same demonstration people and anti-pollution etc. Well guess one has to live with it.

 

 

It is called Boolean searching. It is used in whole or in part in so many different things - from Google, to any database, picture libraries, computer programming, Excel spreadsheets. 

 

http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/TeachingLib/Guides/Internet/Boolean.pdf

 

Thanks!  so in other words we are supposed to keyword WITH quotation marks when called for?  well fine, I just hope buyers are aware of all this. Seen many, many ad-agency creatives searching but never used any marks.

 

best!

[Martin Carlsson]

quotation marks (") tells the search engine to only deliver exact hits. For example you can search for "black cat" and only images with the exact keyword phrase black cat will be returned.

 

If you search black cat i.e. without quotation marks you get all images that have the keywords; black, cat in them - which probably gives you less black cats, but also a lot of black, woman, man, person, background etc. So the " is a way to be more precise. 

 

I find the AND, OR and NOT to be most useful to tame large results searches.

[Robert Brook]

Despite the name calling and one-up-man-ship there is a point here. Though it has been said before, the creative button is far from optimal.

Equally annoying is that once you have been labelled, you have been labelled, one or the other. I have a few images which are in the creative collection but it is a tiny fraction of the total at a time when I am more and more concentrating on creating commercially safe work. Since the creative tab came in about the end of 2011 my commercial sales have gone from a welcome couple per year to nothing. Maybe coincidence, maybe its my work... but that does have a consequence when it comes to deciding where to put ones efforts in the future. (The same with news, I realise some have done very well, but for those which haven;t, it cant be expected that they continue to produce work for no returns and when it is obvious that there work gets low priority.)

As a contributor to an external commercial collection which is displayed here, I haven’t noticed anything appearing under my name in creative searches for well over a year. Maybe keywords are still working, but an image which only appears in a creative search on the basis of a particular keyword/s can’t be said to be part of any separate commercial entity, however shadowy and vague.

 

It seems to me that the whole creative idea is dead in the water – not surprisingly given the competition. But, as has been pointed out editorial work can be creative too, but in a different way. Editorial photographers are usually much better story tellers, and images that tell stories sell. But all you get, looking at the Alamy home page is the appearance of yet another wannabe commercial agency. Where are the stories?

[Jill Morgan]

If I was searching for commercial work, I would automatically tick the release boxes so I wouldn't have to waste my time looking at pictures to discover they have no releases. Just seems logical as you can't use any images for commercial without them.

 

Jill

[Robert Brook]

If I was searching for commercial work, I would automatically tick the release boxes so I wouldn't have to waste my time looking at pictures to discover they have no releases. Just seems logical as you can't use any images for commercial without them.

 

Jill

 

There isn't a hard distinction between commercial and editorial usage, and, anyway, creative buyers often dont need releases, especially for property. Unless a buyer wants people in an image, then checking the MR box might simply exclude the best images.

 

The latest trend, being pioneered by SS and Offset, is to have just two categories: 'Editorial only' and 'available for all usage'.

[christian58]

quotation marks (") tells the search engine to only deliver exact hits. For example you can search for "black cat" and only images with the exact keyword phrase black cat will be returned.

 

If you search black cat i.e. without quotation marks you get all images that have the keywords; black, cat in them - which probably gives you less black cats, but also a lot of black, woman, man, person, background etc. So the " is a way to be more precise. 

 

I find the AND, OR and NOT to be most useful to tame large results searches.

Well I don't really know where this is all leading to actually?  I am third partner in a very specialized what we call Boutique-agency since way back, 1996, been going for 20 years. We paid the Techs small fortunes for a healthy, allround search and its been going great like clock-works. Fair enough we only have a few million files but thats all we want. Never had these problems with either photographers nor buyers.

 

It seems to me after all explanations here, the search is working!  the main criteria is of course that buyers KNOW how to search and ultimately find what they are looking for. Never underestimate a buyer, never overestimate them either. Time-factor.

 

As I mentioned I do day-rate commissioned work, have done for 25 years, industry, advertising, etc. When up at the agencies discussing a brief or whatever, very often the AD will start showing/searching among stock-agencies to maybe show an example and so on. Seen them do this thousands of times and you know what?  weather they work for Saatchis or a small hole in the wall agency, they just click away, not even aware of if they're using default or not.

Sure! if they are going to spend a couple of thousand bucks, RM, exclusive, world rights, etc,  they will dig deeper in the search but we are talking about the ordinary buyers here, short of time, stressed, etc??

 

Here is another example of what can destroy an otherwise good search. Photographs: "artificial intelligence" this have become a popular search-term in a few other big agencies. Now weather or not you are using quotation marks, up comes, starting on page1 over to page-2 a series of office-clerks or whatever, in all different positions, none of it has the slightest little bit to do with artificial-intelligence but this keyword is still there for whatever weird reasons?

 

Ultimately we all have to rely on that contributors and editors here are doing their bit as best can. Contributors doing serious and honest key-wording and the picture-editors dumping material that is wrong or spam. All this in order for a search working to perfection.

 

Well I think we all know the answer to that one

[Robert Brook]

"Here is another example of what can destroy an otherwise good search. Photographs: "artificial intelligence" this have become a popular search-term in a few other big agencies"

 

Thanks for tip, Chris. I'm working on that one - and challenging it is too.