Ed Rooney Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I'm wondering how many of you do photo editing on a laptop? And which laptop? And what size screen? (Philippe is gonna hit me in the head with a Leffe Blonde bottle.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Bell Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I'm wondering how many of you do photo editing on a laptop? And which laptop? And what size screen? (Philippe is gonna hit me in the head with a Leffe Blonde bottle.) Hope he drinks the contents first. Can't really help here. When I am away from my desktop iMac I use a Toshiba laptop (sorry can't remember type or size) but only to check images fall within the criteria of being sharp/within exposure confines/catalogueing etc. All major work is left till I arrive home to use my desktop. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin paterson Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Hi Ed. Not editing but EVERYTHING else done on a Mac Air. I have CS5 on it but would not trust IT or my vision to edit ! Hope U had a great festive season. Regards, Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NielsVK Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 For a couple of years while I didn't have a fixed place to live I did all my post-processing on a 14" Windows laptop with calibrated screen. It had problems correctly displaying saturated red tints and the Lightroom UI was a little cramped but otherwise no problems. Since I settled in Vancouver I use a 15" MacBook Pro with a calibrated external monitor connected (Asus ProArt 23"). I can't imagine ever buying a desktop computer again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Rooney Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 Yeah, wackadoodle works here (wack-a-doodle). Back in the days of bebop, there was a word being used that meant square or uncool. The word was "Rooney." Any port in a storm, Niels. I used to carry a laptop on trips (early 21st century) and used it to download images and copy them to a portable HD. Never did any Post. I expect the newer machines can be used for editing, as long as you are aware and adjust the angle of the screen. It's not that easy to do, of course, because as you move around over time you will be changing the angle. Hey! I wonder if anyone has edited images on a tablet? I have noticed that many forum people are now shooting jpegs, so an iPad or an other tablet could work. And . . . what about a smart phone??? (That guy is not only a Rooney, he's a wack-a-doodle!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NielsVK Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Philippe, there are laptops with high-end graphics processor and there are laptops with low-end graphics processor, just like there are desktop systems with high-end graphics processor and desktop systems with low-end graphics processor. For example a current 15" MacBook Pro has the exact same graphics processor and exact same amount of video memory as the current most expensive 27" iMac. No, the main problem with laptops is not technical, it's the bad ergonomics, i.e. you kill your back, neck, eyes, etc.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynn Palmer Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I'd love to have that Mac desktop with a retinal display but until I win the lotto or my Alamy ship comes in I must make due with my laptop. I edit on an HP Pavilion 17.3" HD1600x900 "Entertainment PC" with an i7 processor,16 gig of ram and an upgraded video card. I've calibrated the monitor with a Spyder Pro 4 and I'm careful about my viewing angle. It's not perfect but it's also not bad, and it's the best I can do for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexH Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 When I shipped back across the world again three years ago I bought a laptop to be doing with until I got a desktop system set up. Three years later I'm still using that laptop. It's not as good but it does the job for me and I'm a big believer in keeping costs to a minimum. As mentioned above, for what I currently do I can't now see myself getting a desktop system again. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Philippe, there are laptops with high-end graphics processor and there are laptops with low-end graphics processor, just like there are desktop systems with high-end graphics processor and desktop systems with low-end graphics processor. For example a current 15" MacBook Pro has the exact same graphics processor and exact same amount of video memory as the current most expensive 27" iMac. No, the main problem with laptops is not technical, it's the bad ergonomics, i.e. you kill your back, neck, eyes, etc.! Not quite the whole story for GPUs. There's a fundamental issue with laptop GPUs (same for iMac GPUs) in that they don't have the greatest cooling systems. If you try and run CUDA enabled software for rendering, the GPUs will often overheat and crash the computer...or worse. For a top-end GPU, needed much more these days with software enabled GPU computing, you need not only a desktop but often one which is designed for gaming as it has better chasis cooling. I use a large Nvidia GPU for CUDA core rendering and had to get an extra auxillary fan in to keep the temperature of the GPU within better bounds. If you see the size of modern top-end GPUs, they simply wouldn't fit in a laptop, let alone an iMac. If anyone is going to use a laptop for editing, they have to realise that it's a compromise on what they can do with recent software in a number of fields. Even my 17" laptop was far too small to work on IME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDM Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Philippe, there are laptops with high-end graphics processor and there are laptops with low-end graphics processor, just like there are desktop systems with high-end graphics processor and desktop systems with low-end graphics processor. For example a current 15" MacBook Pro has the exact same graphics processor and exact same amount of video memory as the current most expensive 27" iMac. No, the main problem with laptops is not technical, it's the bad ergonomics, i.e. you kill your back, neck, eyes, etc.! Not quite the whole story for GPUs. There's a fundamental issue with laptop GPUs (same for iMac GPUs) in that they don't have the greatest cooling systems. If you try and run CUDA enabled software for rendering, the GPUs will often overheat and crash the computer...or worse. For a top-end GPU, needed much more these days with software enabled GPU computing, you need not only a desktop but often one which is designed for gaming as it has better chasis cooling. I use a large Nvidia GPU for CUDA core rendering and had to get an extra auxillary fan in to keep the temperature of the GPU within better bounds. If you see the size of modern top-end GPUs, they simply wouldn't fit in a laptop, let alone an iMac. If anyone is going to use a laptop for editing, they have to realise that it's a compromise on what they can do with recent software in a number of fields. Even my 17" laptop was far too small to work on IME. A well-considered poll would be interesting but, taking the posts on this forum as representative, the majority seem to be using Lightroom for post-processing. As far as I am aware, Lightroom does not currently take advantage of the GPU - the graphics are so slow I would be very surprised if it does. There are also a lot of people using older versions of Photoshop which don't use the GPU in any case. I'm not arguing for using a laptop by the way - I wouldn't dream of using a laptop without an external monitor attached for image editing for the reasons stated above in relation to viewing angle and also the size of the screen. I actually use an oldish MacPro which is on its third GPU now - being able to upgrade the GPU has allowed me to keep the computer going. I'm simply making the point that a modern laptop should have sufficient processing power for post-processing in Lightroom and this should be sufficient for most Alamy users if the forum is representative of the whole, although even a cheap £100 monitor would be highly recommended over a laptop screen. From previous posts, Geoff is clearly exceptional as an advanced user of Photoshop including 3D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 A well-considered poll would be interesting but, taking the posts on this forum as representative, the majority seem to be using Lightroom for post-processing. As far as I am aware, Lightroom does not currently take advantage of the GPU - the graphics are so slow I would be very surprised if it does. There are also a lot of people using older versions of Photoshop which don't use the GPU in any case. I'm not arguing for using a laptop by the way - I wouldn't dream of using a laptop without an external monitor attached for image editing for the reasons stated above in relation to viewing angle and also the size of the screen. I actually use an oldish MacPro which is on its third GPU now - being able to upgrade the GPU has allowed me to keep the computer going. I'm simply making the point that a modern laptop should have sufficient processing power for post-processing in Lightroom and this should be sufficient for most Alamy users if the forum is representative of the whole, although even a cheap £100 monitor would be highly recommended over a laptop screen. From previous posts, Geoff is clearly exceptional as an advanced user of Photoshop including 3D. I wouldn't say I was an exceptional user, I know quite a few people who use Cintiqs in their work so I am the odd one out there.... forums are only representative of the people who post to them IME. My point previously was that a laptop is not a completely substitute for a desktop. There are compromises but often those don't matter to the user. You can run LR or CC on a modern laptop and see little, if any, difference in performance. It's when you want to use other software that the differences/problems become apparent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDM Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I wouldn't say I was an exceptional user, I know quite a few people who use Cintiqs in their work so I am the odd one out there.... forums are only representative of the people who post to them IME. My point previously was that a laptop is not a completely substitute for a desktop. There are compromises but often those don't matter to the user. You can run LR or CC on a modern laptop and see little, if any, difference in performance. It's when you want to use other software that the differences/problems become apparent. Point taken and I don't disagree. I did qualify my post by "taking the posts on this forum as representative" and I would say that you are exceptional (that is meant as a compliment) on this forum. As far as I can see, most people are doing very straightforward photography with the minimum amount of post-processing, mostly in Lightroom. I agree with NielsVK as well in that the worst thing about using laptops is the ergonomics. If one is spending a lot of time on a computer, then a laptop is not ideal for health reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin P Wilson Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I only really use a laptop for news pictures so it is essentially selection, keywording and adjusting brightness, lifting shadows (based on histogram rather than how it displays), crop and at a push cleaning dust spots. If I have time I do use a laptop to convert RAW rather than work with JPG (for news I shoot raw + jpg) but only in the field - I will not use those adjustments once I get home; I will redo them on my twin-screen workstation (Win7). All my computers are calibrated for colour.and I do the minimum in post production I can get away with. I use a 13in Samsung laptop (Win7, about 6 years old) or a six month old Acer 17in (Win8) when I am using a car/ mobilehome (RV) or working from a media centre where I can leave it safely during the day. My laptop workflow is essentially upload to disk; renumber, select and caption/keyword with PhotoMechanic and submit (from in camera JPGs) if time is of the essence otherwise I will adjust black/white points, lift mid-tones and clean using Lightroom on the small laptop (Capture 1 on big laptop and at home). I only edit stock photographs on my desktop although in 2014 I may use my large laptop during extended travel in a mobilehome using a 4G smartphone to prepare and submit stock in straightforward light.I do ALL my keywording before I upload,online I only move keywords to put them in Alamy's non-standard structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semmick Photo Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 100% laptop, everything, its all I have. And guess what, it made me well over 10,000 dollar in under two years. Asus 14" i5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynn Palmer Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I've been running complex 3d models on my laptops for several years. It's true that when rendering the GPU can throw off a lot of heat. I found some manufacturers handle it better than others and bigger laptops with bigger cases deal with it better. Laptops with big metal cases disipate the heat best. I have a good external cooling pad with a couple fans in it to improve circulation under the machine and to help keep the machine cool while rendering, but I find I don't need it while editing photos, even when the machine is in use all day. I do take it in once a year for a local repair shop to clean out the dust that is sucked in by the fan. Usually runs around $100. Personally I prefer the flexibility of a laptop and would prefer that new Mac to be a Macbook Pro with a big, beautiful external monitor on my desktop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Rooney Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 Thank you so much, people. There is a lot of good information and opinions here. I've been working on an iMac 21.5" screen with LR5, CS5 and NX2, but when it comes time to replace the unit I'm considering moving to a laptop. Let me add a tangent to this post. (Hey, I'm the OP!.) I've noticed that several people have been switching from shooting RAW to shooting jpegs. What about the possibility of doing PP on a new tablet, an iPad or the like? Ed (or Edo to me pals) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin P Wilson Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I switched from raw to jpg(+raw) for news but I took photographs at a motorshow and had to go back to raw. The dynamic range needed (harsh spotlights) meant that shadows were completely solid and highlights burnt out on in-camera jpgs (Fuji X-E1 jpgs considered excellent) despite proper exposure; totally unrecoverable. I went back to the raws and recovered details at both ends, especially shadows as I expose for the highlights as we used to do for slides. I now only submit in-camera jpgs where time is critical (not often with my stuff) and the light permits So jpgs need to be used with care and remember to work on a copy and keep the originals without any edits; if I am going to do that I might as well work with raw even if they are larger. Each time you edit and save a jpg you lose quality as it recompresses and throws away information. I have gone back to 10 year old raw images and reprocessed them for improved results now software and my skills are better. I like having an original with all the data the camera could produc and raw conversion only takes a few seconds per image on my desktop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Rooney Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 Personally, Martin, I still shoot RAW. I did some test shooting with SCENES on my new RX10, which automatically selected jpeg. The images were not that bad. But since I can't help moving the jpeg through LR I'm not saving myself any time. When I used to shoot Kodachrome, I used the ASA 25 because of the good shadow detail. I hated the ASA 64, with its blocked shadows. So I would not enjoy switching to jpegs. I'm more interested in the dawning of the tablet . . . does it have a place in stock PP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin P Wilson Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Ed, my view of tablets is that they are good for consuming but not for creating content. As a writer the touchscreen would drive me mad (and I am not fond of it on my phone) so I would have to add a keyboard, then I might as well use a laptop. I don't think it would work for me for captions and keywords especially as my preferred software does not support iPad or Android so my only option might be the overpriced Microsoft Surface Pro. Also storage is limited and not all tablets support external hard drives and the screens are small, a lot of scolling. My sister has an iPad but has just bought a Kindle. She find the iPad too heavy for extended reading sessions. BTW Ed, I too shoot raw only for 90% of what I do.. Like you I selected my transparency film to avoid blocked up shadows - I used less contrasty Fuji Provia instead of Velvia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Morrison Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Ed, my view of tablets is that they are good for consuming but not for creating content. As a writer the touchscreen would drive me mad (and I am not fond of it on my phone) so I would have to add a keyboard, then I might as well use a laptop. I don't think it would work for me for captions and keywords especially as my preferred software does not support iPad or Android so my only option might be the overpriced Microsoft Surface Pro. Also storage is limited and not all tablets support external hard drives. My sister has an iPad but has just bought a Kindle. She find the iPad too heavy for extended reading sessions. I have an iPad Mini... which is a godsend. Great for making notes, and lightweight writing duties... but I edit everything on my desktop iMac. For writing a book? Nope. The iPad is a convenient way to show a portfolio of pix. But editing pix on it? No way... Tablets are terrific... but they have limits to their usefulness... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDM Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Thank you so much, people. There is a lot of good information and opinions here. I've been working on an iMac 21.5" screen with LR5, CS5 and NX2, but when it comes time to replace the unit I'm considering moving to a laptop. Let me add a tangent to this post. (Hey, I'm the OP!.) I've noticed that several people have been switching from shooting RAW to shooting jpegs. What about the possibility of doing PP on a new tablet, an iPad or the like? Ed (or Edo to me pals) Unless you are intending to travel and process on the road, I would say you are a lot better sticking with iMac. You will pay quite a bit more for a MacBook Pro with equivalent processing power and you will have a much smaller screen unless you get an external monitor. I've not checked prices but you could probably get a 27 inch iMac for the price of a 15 inch MacBook Pro. The laptop is less upgradeable as well - RAM tends to be very expensive, for example. Eye strain is another potential problem with a small screen in addition to the other ergonomic issues mentioned earlier. From what I know about tablets, it's as Martin says - they are not intended for production, more for consumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin P Wilson Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 John, I have toyed with the idea of a tablet for notes but a small notebook and pen is hard to beat (instant boot, light, accessories available everywhere, infinite battery life,...). Perhaps I will try it on my new (first) smartphone (Galaxy S4), if nothing else it will help my touchscreen keyboarding text messages and emails. Also I don't really want to carry multiple devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Rooney Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 Ed, my view of tablets is that they are good for consuming but not for creating content. As a writer the touchscreen would drive me mad (and I am not fond of it on my phone) so I would have to add a keyboard, then I might as well use a laptop. I don't think it would work for me for captions and keywords especially as my preferred software does not support iPad or Android so my only option might be the overpriced Microsoft Surface Pro. Also storage is limited and not all tablets support external hard drives. My sister has an iPad but has just bought a Kindle. She find the iPad too heavy for extended reading sessions. I have an iPad Mini... which is a godsend. Great for making notes, and lightweight writing duties... but I edit everything on my desktop iMac. For writing a book? Nope. The iPad is a convenient way to show a portfolio of pix. But editing pix on it? No way... Tablets are terrific... but they have limits to their usefulness... All you guys is sayin' is true, but furgeddaboutit! Wait till one or two years is gone . . . see what da Pads is den. That's where things is goin'. Like your sister, Martin, I too own an iPad mini and a couple of B&W Kindles. She's right; the Apple tablet is too heavy for reading in bed, where I like to read fiction etc. I can't remember why I bought the iPad mini . . . maybe for photo help books with color illustrations? For maps? All I seem to actually do with it is play Virtual Pool. Also, I bought the one with wi-fi only, thinking there were lots of free wi-fi spots in NYC. So where are they? I used a Moleskine notebook for notes ever since I borrowed one for Hemingway back in Paris in the '20. Well, that's not totally true. It may be that I just borrowed the idea from Papa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin P Wilson Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 All you guys is saying' is true, but furgeddaboutit! Wait till one or two years is gone . . . see what da Pads is den. That's where things is goin'.... Well, this old, bearded geezer will almost certainly still be using a notebook (and fountain pen more often than not)! Or a dictating device if it can transcribe accurately, including interviews where it has not been voice trained.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladikirn Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 It's now 4-5 years that I have on my desk only a laptop connected with a calibrated external monitor. I even did a pic or two on laptop only, when I did not have access to my desk. Now I have a small batch done in cs6 on an old acer aspire waiting for QC over holidays. And, I have just done the test (on the same laptop) recommended in the topic: "How well do you see colours?" : -Your score: 12 -Gender: Male -Age range: 60-69 This should do, I hope. ps. btw, now I am lazing for hours in the same position as when I was PP those pics. Cozi in the sofa, leaning on the wall behind, legs stretched, laptop on the pad with enough place for the mouse at the side. No old-back-bones troubles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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