Camera Accessory Advice Please - Panning Base & Macro Rail

[Marianne]

I've spent hours online reading and watching YouTube videos, then spoke to the pros at a few NYC camera stores, but I still need help. Specifically, I need advice about a good pano setup and, separately, a macro focusing rail (to take macros outdoors with a tripod, not indoors for slides and negatives). 

 

During Covid, I switched my focus from travel and editorial to landscape and nature. I've had luck selling photos to hospitals, particularly panoramas. So, I need better gear in order to up my game and compete in a crowded market.  I've narrowed down some equipment choices, but since I don't want a big multi-level panoramic rig,  the camera stores dropped the ball when it came to many of the components for a single level set up. So, I need your help

 

I've already decided that Nodal Ninja ($400) and the similar large multi level pano setups are too unwieldy & heavy for hiking. Plus, overkill for single level panos. I settled on a simple Sunwayfoto nodal rail (good reviews for all their products) and for a simple rail, many folks with Really Right Stuff gear opted for the same $35 rail rather than shell out $100 for RSS.  I got the 140mm nodal rail.  I considered buying a multipurpose rail to use with a sliding clamp for macros, but decided the nodal rail is easier to set up precisely each time, since the clamp is fixed at one end, and I only have to match the numbers I've deduced from my testing with the midpoint of the tripod, rather resetting the clamp each time & calculating from there. And the multipurpose rail would entail jerkily sliding the clamp by hand for macros, not good for stacking focus with precision.  Sound right (or wrong) so far?

 

The rail is here, nodal points tested, but I still need a panning clamp. Apparently, leveling one on top of a ball head, let's me level my tripod from there rather than trying to level the legs on uneven ground. B&H recommended a Camvate clamp for $26 with no reviews anywhere: (it's all they had available other than RRS @ around $300 or full panning heads up to $700+ heavy & not needed.  Other Camvate products had bad reviews on Amazon, a red flag for me. No info on load either - others can manage 44lbs. 

 

I'm leaning toward a Benro Panning Clamp on sale at Adorama for $99 (usu around $125) that got great reviews. Some guy twisted it 90 degrees, then hung a sandbag off it and there was barely any creep. Not bad for something made to rotate.  It's a big jump from the cheap one, but I can safely use it at 90 degrees like a quasi gimbal - There are also a few by Sunwayfoto between $50 and $90, among the $90 ones there's a geared panning clamp intended for architecture, but astrophotographers seem to love it. They also have a panning clamp/indexing panoramic base combo around $90 with very mixed reviews.  Indexing would be nice at dusk, I guess but if if

it's not top-notch it's just added weight, right?  Thoughts? Geared, Indexing, Brand?  Any experience with these or other Benro or Sunwayfoto products? 

 

Really Right Stuff, even "visibly used," is over $200 for just the clamp (nearly $300 & up new), too much for a single component, I think. The Nodal Ninja could be cheaper because I don't need L-Brackets if I use the full rig - but if I'm at a windy beach or marsh, I don't want that height atop my tripod. It also weighs twice as much as my ball head, rail and L bracket combo - and the similar full pano rigs by RRS & Manfrotto are even bigger. (I swooned over my friend Joe Brady touting the Novaflex setup - but it makes RRS look like a bargain). Any experience with these? Any other suggestions? I don't want to cheap out, but I'm already looking at a few hundred for all these bits and pieces - clamps, brackets, it all adds up. 

 

I have a Manfrotto 190 series "mag fiber" tripod (the legs are carbon fiber, the removable center post is aluminum). It's still in great shape at nearly 20 years old, despite banging around in my car and getting its feet wet in the sea. Depending on what I read, the legs can handle between 8.8 and 33 lbs - someone is clearly wrong - I've written to Manfrotto to clarify - but my memory says around 12-15 lbs - and my lightweight ball the head is rated for 26 lbs - plenty extra for torque at 90 degrees. I mostly used it for my heavier equipment, often on windy piers along the New England coast, with my D700 and Sigma 50-500mm lens (6+ lbs) plus a 2 lb. trigger head, with a bag full of other equipment hanging as counterweight. It worked without a shudder, sharp at 500mm, so 8.8 lbs sounds low. My pano rig - L-bracket, nodal rail, even with heaviest Sony, heaviest telephoto, and light ball head, weighs in around 4.27 lbs and I'll mostly use my lighter 50mm prime shaving nealy a pound off. The only weight to add is the panning clamp which the Nodal rail slides right into.

 

How can I use a Manfrotto with L Brackets and other Arca Swiss clamps and plates? For $35, I got a Sunwayfoto clamp  and adapter combo to convert my ball head so it now takes both Manfrotto and Arca Swiss plates (really awesome!!!). The fit is perfect and tight. I didn't want to give up my Manfrotto plates with Black Rapid attachments for my slings ...and always prefered the Manfrotto system ...but it's great how the nodal plate dovetails right into the Arca Swiss clamp. Best of both. 

 

I'm confident I can recoup the cost of the pano system, since I've been selling panos through an agent and she'd like me to add more, but I can't imagine the RRS is 3x better than the Benro or Sunwayfoto Clamp (tell me if I'm wrong) (Even if the Novaflex is 10x better, it's still too much). 

 

I've never used an L bracket - there's a Nisi for the A7rii (great reviews and it looks beautifully made), one that looks like a 3 Legged Thing clone for the A7riv - the real thing is backordered everywhere I looked & aside from a $200+ RSS, can't find many options for that camera. Is it that important to get the best L bracket if it's only for use on the tripod? There are a few used RRS - again for the A7rii (around $85-90, 2x more than the Nisi which is new, and I think better designed since the RRS requires you to take the battery door off and attach it to the bracket- the A7rii came with 2 batteries because they drain super-fast) I usually take three along with me for a day's shooting. I doubt I'll use the bracket other than for vertical shots for stitched panos, though the Nisi and RSS both have 1/4" holes I can screw a Black Rapid clamp into. The design of the Nisi is pleasing and light. Any A7riv ideas?

 

There's also a "well used" RRS bracket for the Oly for only $20 - must be pretty beat up since they run around $200 new, if you can find one for such an early mirrorless.  I'm tempted because multiple Olympus shots are faster to combine at 16 vs 61MP apiece...and I still think about springing for their 60mm macro lens with its great stacked focus reputation... but I don't need to shoot macro with an L-bracket. The brackets for mirrorless required a redesign from DSLRS, so I could use some mirrorless input here.

 

I doubt I'll recoup the cost of a macro set-up as quickly, since I'm still learning and the "little things" I picked up used at KEH have already added up - used extension tubes for my Nikon 20mm & 50mm primes to experiment with wider angle macros (I saw a Laowa 50mm Macro that focused right up to the glass, but restrained myself). I also picked up a used B+W 77mm close up filter, good in the 70-105 range of my 24-105 lens, which makes that walking around lens even more versatile. I can also use it with step down rings on a 200mm Olympus prime & on my 90mm macro for more than 1:1 reach. (Between used & new, I spent about $250 on lighting: 2 LCD Lume Cube Go Panels, a battery pack that doubles as a stand, & a combo cold shoe/light stand mount) My flash won't work with my Sonys, my Elinchrome studio lights are great but in a tiny house they're a nightmare to put up & take down daily, so this seemed good for tabletop, even for extra light in the kitchen for some food grab shots, and I can use them on the go instead of a ring light for macro. Smaller than my phone but powerful light even at 5%. 

 

In addition to practicing on small tabletop objects, I hope to have plenty of flowers and veggies in my garden.  My understanding is that I can't do real focus stacking without a rail - correct? Also needed to photographing my negatives, right?  There was a classic Minolta for around $85 last week (if it's still there), but I thought it would be cumbersome to take along to the woods on tripod. Yes/no? The Nisi got great reviews. It's  $129, but unlike simply sliding clamps along a multi-purpose rail by hand (about $60 for the components), it has a geared system that lets you stack focus in small accurate increments( & it comes with a really nice Arca plate as a bonus). Top reviews for good design like their L-Bracket.  Saw photogs use it simply for framing macro subjects without constantly moving the tripod & for fine focusing too (No creep facing down - at least none with a 90mm lens). The Novaflex bellows system looks great. Way beyond my budget. 

 

Part of the reason I'm tempted to get it now (still snow on the ground here) is that I'm assuming it's also helpful in nailing focus when tabletop shooting? I have no experience with these things, so I'm trying to decide, along with what brand to get, whether my assumptions about why I want one are correct or is the use more limited & specialized? I think that I can use my small travel tripod with the legs spread on my dining room table instead of spending another $100 on a tabletop one sturdy enough to hold the rail. One video I saw said the legs of the Nisi didn't hold it steady on a table, but he loved it otherwise. 

 

Sorry for the novel, I did so much research that now I'm stuck. Thanks for your advice. Much appreciated as always.  I think I'd be lost without you guys. 

[Harry Harrison]

I've always got an Acratech levelling base on my tripod, it makes setting it up so much easier for everything even though I rarely do panoramics but it's invaluable when I do of course, it weighs next to nothing and is so quick to setup, it has a very large clear spirit level which is really helpful, more than you might imagine. I'd love one of their heads as well but can't justify the expense since I already have a Kirk BH-3. For panoramics I have a Kirk nodal rail but frankly don't need it most of the time as usually there's nothing in the foreground that would show up as parallax error.

 

Leading screw macro rails are much more precise than the 'side adjustment' rails like the Novoflex, I think the pitch of the screw is 1.25mm on the Nisi and as you say it won't unwind if you hold it vertically, with the Novoflex a single rotation of the knob moves the camera by 10mm, at least mine does and it will tend to creep if held vertically. I did read that someone found the Nisi unsuitable for vertical slide copying as there was unacceptable play (the rail moved, not the camera on the rail), he did have a very high end system though. The programmable motorised versions are of course the 'bees knees'.

 

I've had RRS L-grips for my Canons and they're excellent of course, however I've picked up lesser makes for my Fujis and they've been fine as well. I wouldn't use a camera without an L-Grip now, moving to vertical orientation is so easy on a tripod or monopod, it also protects the camera and totally saved my X-T2 when it dropped on to a flagstone pavement from about 5 feet.

 

It still takes a lot to beat a 55mm Micro-Nikkor f2.8 for macro, and for 1:1 slide copying. Those that want to go for AF tend to go for the Sigma ART 70mm & 105mm, a lot more money though. Those lenses are great for macro and 1:1 flat copying, not all macro lenses are good for both applications, very few in fact.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Harry Harrison

[Vincent Lowe]

I have a Nodal Ninja 3 but haven't used it much to be honest, it's a bit of a fiddle to set up.  I'm thinking of selling it as I've since bought a motorised panning head from Syrp (who now seem to have teamed up with Manfrotto).   I bought it primarily for timelapse photography but it also has a panorama mode - just set the total angle required, the amount of overlap and it does the rest.  All controlled from a smartphone or tablet.  See here - Syrp Genie mini

 

For close-ups I have a macro rail but again hardly used (cheap Chinese job but it's sturdy).  I mostly use a bellows unit now, with one of the special Bellows-Nikkor lenses that Nikon made (bought for a song on ebay).  The bellows unit has 'movements' on the front lens plate so the plane of focus can be set at an angle, like a view camera.

 

Can't comment on focus-stacking, never done it.

[MDM]

 

My first question would be do you really need all this specialist pano stuff to do arty landscape and nature panoramas? Are you aiming for quantitative scientific accuracy or just nice arty panos?

 

Maybe I've missed something over the years (since 2010 or so) I've been doing rural landscape panos but I have never used anything more a camera, lens and carbon fibre tripod with a simple ball head. Nowadays I often do panos handheld with my Z7 (45MP) and 24-70 f4 Nikkor Z lens (total weight just over 1kg or about 2.3 lbs). IBIS is an amazing invention. I'm a pretty scientific person in general but I have never bothered with any of the pano science as I've never found any need to do so. I shoot a sequence (vertical is best for single level panos) with a bit of overlap between the images and do the rest in Lightroom with a finishing touch in Photoshop. Lightroom is great because you can merge raw images and end up with a DNG, which has all the benefits of raw straight out of the camera.

 

You can definitely do focus stacking without a rail with a Nikon camera (pro and prosumer level Z series, D850 etc). I don't know if Sony cameras have focus stacking. With the Nikons, all you need is a tripod, as the camera controls the focus incrementally with no camera movement. The subject has to be perfectly still (always a problem with close-up outdoor flower photography anyway). Helicon Focus is an excellent program for post-processing focus-stacked images. The software is very important here. You can do the biz in Photoshop but the specialised software is way better. You don't need a rail (at least I don't) for close-up photography. The most important things are the camera, lens and tripod. The ability to remove the centre column and get down to ground level is invaluable.

 

In summary - my advice is to keep it simple. It's better for the body, the mind and probably the wallet 😀.

Edited March 16, 2023 by MDM

[Marianne]

Thanks guys

.

The no-name L Bracket was just delivered. It is super lightweight and doesn't cover the the battery at all, which leaves the grip comfortable for me and it gives me a grip on the other side which is interesting. I'm just a little leery of the softness of the screw, but it fits well, has a lip in the front, center markings, is a solid piece of aluminum. Although it  has barely enough room to get at the cables, an issue since that's where the shutter release is, I finally finagled it. Of course, once it is on a tripod vertically, I can't use the shutter release anyway. Ugh! So access to the side really doesn't matter much at all. Should have figured that out sooner. I spent so much time reading about which brackets let you access cables. 

 

I recently came across an app called Shutter that lets you control your Sony or Canon camera remotely from your phone, so that could be a solution. $19.99 one time payment, no subscription. Anyone tried it?

 

Or there's the timer but that is so tedious for rows of pano shots. Maybe somehow I can set the intervalometer and try to count my turns?.Haven't used that function since my D700. It's in the Sony menu somewhere.

 

Sadly, though, no in camera focus stacking - I think that's on the A7rivA or just the V  I think I can upgrade my Olympus software for it though, but it only works with certain lenses such as the 60mm Macro. 

 

I saw the benefit of a nodal rail while testing my lenses yesterday  I can see how it will improve my panos a lot. Right now I usually do two or three overlapping shots by hand - horizontally, I know, wrong, but mostly they work. Love the DNG I get in Lightroom and with my cameras these shots are already huge. Most work out, but one of my favorite spots is the marshland near my family's summer cottage. I generally have to shoot from the verge of the grass just off the road, so there is usually stuff in the foreground. In fact, with a marsh there is almost always some kind of parallax error. I can sometimes fix it but it's work and with the Nodal rail it will be so much easier. Well worth the $35 for the rail in time (and panos) saved. The marsh grasses up close make for a nice layered look

 

 TBH I have one "pano" that sells often and  it's actually just a single cropped image, the A7riv gives me so much real estate to work with. 

 

I may put the macro rail on hold for now and work with what I've bought so far, but I definitely need the panning base (and some new SD cards when mine head off to Sony for exchange), so any thoughts on that would be great. 

 

That Acratech looked excellent, I toyed with the idea of selling my two Manfrotto heads and going for one of their heads, or the Manfrotto Junior geared head, but I like having a small light head for travel, and the trigger head is great when you need to move quickly. The camera store guys all said I didn't need a leveling base, but I agree that leveling is a nightmare - it's not even easy in my house, build in 1927 the floors are not straight, particularly if you're near a wall. 

 

Thanks again. It's so helpful to write it all out and really think through what I need. I keep trying to downsize but sometimes there is stuff that's worth buying. 

[wiskerke]

If you want to keep your current tripod setup, try searching on Ebay for Tripod Leveling Base. The ones with one knob under $30 are fine.

Put it between your tripod and whatever head you're using. The 3 knob ones are just as fiddly as adjusting your tripod legs.

With a leveling base and an L bracket there's actually no real need for a 3 way or a ball head. Just screw your QR clamp directly on to the leveling base and you have a somewhat restricted ball head with enough range for adjustment.

If you insist on a Manfrotto QR clamp, they have one too. Mine is still a genuine one, but there are Chinese knock-offs even for a cheap part like that. Manfrotto L brackets however are a bit pricey.

Some people use their panorama ball head upside down. That does need some tinkering though. Some ball heads come with a removable camera screw like in this Novoflex video. Search for Inverted Ball Head.

I have plenty of Manfrotto stuff, but all those quick release system heads and their plates are in Ikea boxes in storage. Whenever I get them out, I am amazed how incredibly crude they all feel. And yes I do have some of those RRS heads and some Leofoto RRS knock-offs, so I may be spoiled, but I have some no-name Chinese heads as well. My leveling base is a $5 Velbon from a bargain box on the counter somewhere and the QR clamp on top is another $5 Chinese no-name. Some of my plates and L brackets are Chinese, but some older ones are RRS as well. The one on my 7R2 is a Kirk, because it was the lightest and like yours it leaves the battery door free. Plus the vertical part is removable.

However for some lenses or brackets I have just filed a plate of aluminum down to size. Quicker even than waiting for Amazon Prime.

QR camera clamps seem to be double the price they used to be with the cheapest around $10. Search for QR Camera Clamp or Arca Swiss Clamp on Ebay.

Some built-in levels are more accurate than others. Alternatively, have an app on your phone and take a rubber band with you. My app beeps when it's level. Really useful! But to make sure, I do spin the camera with the electronic level visible in the display. I use the level on all my Sonys and in the daytime, like MDM, I seldom use a tripod nowadays.

 

wim

[Nigel Kirby]

For panos I use a RRS ball head and Gitzo carbon tripod. Make sure all is level and shoot in portrait mode and either use the features on the RRS integrated panning ball head or overlap by around a 1/3rd if doing a manual pano. I then stitch 3 images at a time in photoshop then stitch the final images together. I was told about this stiching method from the landscape photographer Joe Cornish years ago.

 

Nigel

[Ed Rooney]

17 hours ago, MDM said:

The most important things are the camera, lens and tripod. The ability to remove the centre column and get down to ground level is invaluable.

 

In summary - my advice is to keep it simple. It's better for the body, the mind and probably the wallet 😀.

 

That's what I would do. Except I might leave the tripod home. 

[Allan Bell]

I have done some panos hand held as a trial and they well enough for some to be put on Alamy.

 

Allan

 

[Marianne]

Sometimes I shoot perfect panos handheld but if I want to include foreground elements, there can be a fair amount of parallax error. My new Sunwayfoto nodal rail is very small and light. At 140mm, it is the right length for all my lenses.

 

I planned to put a panning clamp atop my ball head so I could level it without the need for a heavy panning base. Then I read/watched great reviews on the SunwayFoto GH-PRO II Geared Head - favorably compared to the more expensive Manfrotto ones, and with Arca Swiss compatibility. It has dual panoramic functions, with panning from the base or the top. You can level the top panning clamp independently of the legs for level horizons and perfect panos - no leveling base needed. The + version add a geared pano head on top, but I'm fine just spinning  the regular panning head and overlapping by eye. $225 for a new head is affordable, at $279 for the +, it starts to push my budget. 

 

It's a geared head under 2 lbs. I'd been considering the much heavier Manfrotto Junior Geared Head for a while since I'm not a big fan of ball heads, other than their being light and practical for travel - ok for lots of things but not great for anything.  If I need to shoot quickly, the camera is in my hands anyway. This geared head ticks a lot of boxes

 

It will add precision for macros. (I'll see how it works, and hold off on a macro focusing rail for now - I may end upstill hand holding most macros in the garden - but it'll be a good sturdy base if I do get a rail - better than a ball head.)

It will encourage me to use a tripod more, instead of bumping up the ISO. And, even with IBIS, I can't hold a camera steady long enough to make water look like glass with a neutral density filter. In my younger days, yes. Not now. 

 

Depending on how travel friendly the new head is, I might even trade in one or both of my current Manfrotto heads the next time I buy used gear. My lightest travel tripod, a small aluminum 5-section one that folds down to 12" & morphs into a monopod, & has a panning ball head, so I'd still have a lightweight option for plane travel. The sturdier Manfrotto is my choice for car travel.  A friend just invited me to spend some time with her out on Cape Cod in late April, and I can give this setup a good workout there. 

 

I want to slow down, shoot less & more deliberately. Landscape seems easy when the beauty of nature is right in front of you, but taking the time to think about all the angles before shooting a single scene and only then moving on, after all the possibilities have been considered, and the best ones chosen, seems like a good way to improve my skills. I want to make great landscape images, not just good ones. 

 

I heard from Manfrotto. My carbon fiber tripod legs were initially rated for 8.8. lbs at their most extreme, such as center column fully raised with a large lens hanging off to the side at a steep angle. Back then, she said, they were very conservative in their estimates. Using today's standards, in most situations, she'd estimate the legs could manage around 22lbs. The Sunwayfoto GH-Pro II head handles 11lbs, more than double the weight of my largest camera/lens combo with nodal rail, clamps, & L bracket. And the extra pound directly centered on my Manfrotto legs will be stabilizing rather than a concern.

 

L-Bracket thoughts/advice?

 

Playing with the L bracket, I realized the location of the center axis of my lens in the vertical position on the tripod, leaves just enough room for the cables to hang freely below. Before that discovery,  I pre-ordered the Nisi Wizard which seems quicker than an L-Bracket and works will all the Sony E mount A7R cameras (if you check the Nisi site). I'm thinking it might work with my Olympus too. The nice thing is that it should work with future cameras, and no fiddling to open the side doors to plug in cables. It's the cost of a higher end L-Bracket and spins the camera like a tripod collar would. Having never had an L Bracket on a camera before, I'm not sure I'm sold on their benefits but the tripod collar on my Sigma 50-500mm made tripod use a cinch. 

 

Any thoughts on that? Am I better off just getting an L -bracket for each of my cameras? The best ones for my cameras don't have a cage around the battery compartment, leaving it unprotected, so I think the bracket wouldn't really add much protection. Thoughts

 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Marianne

[Phil Crean]

17 hours ago, Marianne said:

Then I read/watched great reviews on the SunwayFoto GH-PRO II Geared Head - favorably compared to the more expensive Manfrotto ones, and with Arca Swiss compatibility. It has dual panoramic functions, with panning from the base or the top. You can level the top panning clamp independently of the legs for level horizons and perfect panos - no leveling base needed.

I bought this last year and it is very good but does have a bit of a learning curve involved in using it. I use it mainly for minute adjustments right/left up/down which it is much better than a ball head for. There is a limit on how far up/down it will go as the top comes up against the lower levers so not possible to do straight up or straight down. I change back to my ball head if I'm shooting overheads. Also panning from the base does depend on having everything lined up and level to start with. Top is better, but it's not what I'd call totally independently levelling... you need to play with it to get to grips with it's foibles but once you understand it it is very good! 

I would reccommend it.

 

Phil

[MDM]

23 hours ago, Marianne said:

I may end upstill hand holding most macros in the garden - but it'll be a good sturdy base if I do get a rail - better than a ball head.)

It will encourage me to use a tripod more, instead of bumping up the ISO. And, even with IBIS, I can't hold a camera steady long enough to make water look like glass with a neutral density filter. In my younger days, yes. Not now. 

 

I want to slow down, shoot less & more deliberately. Landscape seems easy when the beauty of nature is right in front of you, but taking the time to think about all the angles before shooting a single scene and only then moving on, after all the possibilities have been considered, and the best ones chosen, seems like a good way to improve my skills. I want to make great landscape images, not just good ones. 

 

 

Just to be clear I was not suggesting not using a tripod as I am all for it as long as it is not causing me pain or injury. I used to always use a tripod when out and about but my body is not what it used to be, so my days of carrying heavy gear on mountain walks are numbered.

 

I would prefer to use a tripod for panos but I have gotten some very decent stuff handheld with IBIS. Thankfully I still have steady hands. I always use a tripod for video but am not going too far these days when carrying that extra weight. 

 

A tripod is virtually essential for close-up work as it is very difficult to maintain a fixed camera to subject distance at the tiny distances and depths of field involved. I can do big garden flowers handheld but it is much more difficult with tiny wild flowers.

 

The most important thing with landscapes is light and this requires good planning. Yes by all means stick with a scene until you get it right but you might be missing a better scene just down the road 😀.