andylong677 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Hi all, If I am uploading an image taken in 1906 and contains buildings or people, what do I answer to the question of having a release from them, considering they are n longer alive? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Bell Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 If they contain recognisable people or buildings click "Yes" in optional in AIM then tick "No" in do you have releases. This leaves the decision to the buyer. Allan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avpics Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 On 28/01/2021 at 10:10, Allan Bell said: If they contain recognisable people..... Just to dot the i, I don't think that they need to be recognisable to be deemed as people do they? Alamy ask that even if it's just a hand or such that it counts towards a person. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Bell Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Just now, Avpics said: Just to dot the i, I don't think that they need to be recognisable to be deemed as people do they? Alamy ask that even if it's just a hand or such that it counts towards a person. True. In any case still follow my previous post. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meanderingemu Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 hour ago, David Pimborough said: As to buildings I'd say NO to does it contain property. any reasons why? i assume the buildings are still properties. That the ownership may have changed since doesn't feel relevant regarding to property, maybe i am missing something. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Harrison Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 I don't think this would be applicable to ancient postcards but I thought these 'wiki' pages on copyright for buildings and architecture looked interesting. They're from a rival operation so keep them under your hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inchiquin Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 18 hours ago, Avpics said: Just to dot the i, I don't think that they need to be recognisable to be deemed as people do they? Alamy ask that even if it's just a hand or such that it counts towards a person. I'd like to see someone claim that it's their hand in a picture from 1906... 😏 Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, David Pimborough said: As the OP is putting up vintage postcards from 1906 it is highly doubtful that any copyright in the buildings is going to be infringed Agreed that it's not about copyright but the property rights of any owner- whether he can control the use of an image of his property. The answer appears to be no- there don't appear to have been any successful lawsuits about this, even in the US ( A House’s Right of Publicity ) so it's simply a matter of tagging accuracy. If there are people or property, you just say so. As Allan said it's then up to the buyer, who can safely ignore the question altogether in this case. Whether your property rights could possibly extend to the distant past would surely be a challenge even for the most determined ambulance chaser. Edited February 1, 2021 by spacecadet 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meanderingemu Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, David Pimborough said: Of course https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Copyright_of_building_design Copyright Designs and Patents Act 1988 UK Law specifically: Copyright protects drawings, diagrams, maps, charts, plans and models as well as actual buildings. Copyright extends for the lifetime of the creator, and a further 70 years from the end of the year in which they died (or the latest such date where it is a joint work). Copyright in a work of architecture is not infringed by making a representation of it, so for example photos can be taken. As the OP is putting up vintage postcards from 1906 it is highly doubtful that any copyright in the buildings is going to be infringed Even in the land of the free "US Copyright Office ~ Architectural designs embodied in buildings constructed prior to December 1, 1990, are not eligible for copyright protection." Ownership rights are different than copyrights. In addition architecture is not the only property included in images, you will have patented designs, trademarks and as mentioned the owner's rights. In the end Property is property, it either is present or not, so why try to mislead the client, and potentially expose the artist, by saying there is no property, when it is much easier to state there is, and they can make informed decision as to the use. Edited February 1, 2021 by meanderingemu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Chapman Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) The question in AIM, is "Is there any property in the image?" (and not "Does the image contain property that requires a release?") So IMHO it's simple. Building = Property, so the answer is yes. Mark Edited February 1, 2021 by M.Chapman Correction - Thanks WIM! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) deleted Edited February 1, 2021 by wiskerke corrected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avpics Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 It actually asks 'Is there any property in the images?'. Same difference (British saying) 😀 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Chapman Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, wiskerke said: Spot the difference? Does the image contain property that requires a release? Does the image contain property that requires a release? 😁 wim Oops now corrected. I knew I shouldn't have posted a comment using my phone! THANKS. Mark Edited February 1, 2021 by M.Chapman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meanderingemu Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 (edited) On 01/02/2021 at 10:44, David Pimborough said: "patented designs, trademarks and as mentioned the owner's rights." for buildings in the postcard image? From 1906? 114 years ago? I really am going to disagree with that conclusion. If you point out in law where your conclusions derive from I will concur with you. It would be a problem if the original photographer had died within the last 70 years (copyright of image) but the OP was asking about photos of buildings specifically. I'll use one of his postcard images to illustrate the type of postcard he is scanning. Are you really suggesting that these 1906 postcards contain buildings which fall under "patented designs, trademarks and owner's rights." Owners? Which owners? The ones who owned the buildings in 1906? They will all be dead and buried Patented designs, trademarks? I see none The OP is also indicating that these postcard images are "public domain" which in high probability they will be So you believe that boat is not property? The houses? The pier? The questions reads Is there any property in the image? additional note: Property includes cars, building, brand, logo, etc. How can you answer "No" to that question? Edited February 11, 2021 by meanderingemu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Chapman Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 4 hours ago, meanderingemu said: So you believe that boat is not property? The houses? The pier? The questions reads Is there any property in the image? additional note: Property includes cars, building, brand, logo, etc. How can you answer "No" to that question? There is property in the image but, in this case, I imagine it doesn't require a release. Answering yes or no is all down to how Alamy's question is interpreted. https://discussion.alamy.com/topic/14028-property-release-required-for-nature/?do=findComment&comment=275813 Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meanderingemu Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 Just now, M.Chapman said: There is property in the image but, in this case, I imagine it doesn't require a release. Answering yes or no is all down to how Alamy's question is interpreted. https://discussion.alamy.com/topic/14028-property-release-required-for-nature/?do=findComment&comment=275813 Mark to me the decision of the need of a release is with the Buyer. I provide them with the information. The question does not ask about the release, it asks about property. I may leave it blank, but i would never claim that there is No property if there is obviously something that qualifies as property. again to each their own. I also find strange when people will state that there is no property under claim they believe the property owner will not be able to identify and prove ownership of what is in the image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Chapman Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 (edited) 13 hours ago, meanderingemu said: to me the decision of the need of a release is with the Buyer. I provide them with the information. The question does not ask about the release, it asks about property. I may leave it blank, but i would never claim that there is No property if there is obviously something that qualifies as property. again to each their own. I also find strange when people will state that there is no property under claim they believe the property owner will not be able to identify and prove ownership of what is in the image. In recent years I generally follow the same principle as you. But, up until about 3 years ago, the question asked by AIM was "Does the image contain property that requires a release?" So I answered accordingly, and there's a large proportion of images on Alamy that are categorised that way. Mark Edited February 12, 2021 by M.Chapman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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