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Property/People release - Vintage/archive images


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If they contain recognisable people or buildings click "Yes" in optional in AIM then tick "No" in do you have releases. This leaves the decision to the buyer.

 

Allan

 

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On 28/01/2021 at 10:10, Allan Bell said:

If they contain recognisable people.....

Just to dot the i, I don't think that they need to be recognisable to be deemed as people do they? Alamy ask that even if it's just a hand or such that it counts towards a person. 

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Just now, Avpics said:

Just to dot the i, I don't think that they need to be recognisable to be deemed as people do they? Alamy ask that even if it's just a hand or such that it counts towards a person. 

 

True. In any case still follow my previous post.

 

Allan

 

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1 hour ago, David Pimborough said:

 

 

As to buildings I'd say NO to does it contain property.

 

 

 

any reasons why?  i assume the buildings are still properties.  That the ownership may have changed since doesn't feel relevant regarding to property, maybe i am missing something.  

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18 hours ago, Avpics said:

Just to dot the i, I don't think that they need to be recognisable to be deemed as people do they? Alamy ask that even if it's just a hand or such that it counts towards a person. 

 

I'd like to see someone claim that it's their hand in a picture from 1906... 😏

 

Alan

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3 hours ago, David Pimborough said:

As the OP is putting up vintage postcards from 1906 it is highly doubtful that any copyright in the buildings is going to be infringed

Agreed that it's not about copyright but the property rights of any owner- whether he can control the use of an image of his property. The answer appears to be no- there don't appear to have been any successful lawsuits about this, even in the US ( A House’s Right of Publicity ) so it's simply a matter of tagging accuracy. If there are people or property, you just say so. As Allan said it's then up to the buyer, who can safely ignore the question altogether in this case.

Whether your property rights could possibly extend to the distant past would surely be a challenge even for the most determined ambulance chaser.

Edited by spacecadet
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7 hours ago, David Pimborough said:

 

Of course

 

https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Copyright_of_building_design

 

Copyright Designs and Patents Act 1988

 

UK Law specifically:

 

Copyright protects drawings, diagrams, maps, charts, plans and models as well as actual buildings. Copyright extends for the lifetime of the creator, and a further 70 years from the end of the year in which they died (or the latest such date where it is a joint work). Copyright in a work of architecture is not infringed by making a representation of it, so for example photos can be taken.

 

As the OP is putting up vintage postcards from 1906 it is highly doubtful that any copyright in the buildings is going to be infringed

 

Even in the land of the free "US Copyright Office ~ Architectural designs embodied in buildings constructed prior to December 1, 1990, are not eligible for copyright protection."

 

 

Ownership rights are different than copyrights.  In addition architecture is not the only property included in images, you will have patented designs, trademarks and as mentioned the owner's rights.  In the end Property is property, it either is present or not, so why try to mislead the client, and potentially expose the artist, by saying there is no property, when it is much easier to state there is, and they can make informed decision as to the use. 

Edited by meanderingemu
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The question in AIM, is "Is there any property in the image?"  (and not "Does the image contain property that requires a release?")  So IMHO it's simple. Building = Property, so the answer is yes. 

 

Mark

Edited by M.Chapman
Correction - Thanks WIM!
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1 hour ago, wiskerke said:

 

Spot the difference?

 

Does the image contain property that requires a release?

Does the image contain property that requires a release?

😁

 

wim

Oops now corrected. I knew I shouldn't have posted a comment using my phone! THANKS.

 

Mark

Edited by M.Chapman
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 01/02/2021 at 10:44, David Pimborough said:

 

 

 

"patented designs, trademarks and as mentioned the owner's rights."  for buildings in the postcard image? From 1906? 114 years ago?

 

I really am going to disagree with that conclusion.  If you point out in law where  your conclusions derive from I will concur with you.

 

It would be a problem if the original photographer had died within the last 70 years (copyright of image) but the OP was asking about photos of buildings specifically.

 

I'll use one of his postcard images to illustrate the type of postcard he is scanning.  Are you really suggesting that these 1906

postcards contain buildings which fall under "patented designs, trademarks and owner's rights."

 

Owners? Which owners? The ones who owned the buildings in 1906?  They will all be dead and buried

Patented designs, trademarks? I see none

 

The OP is also indicating that these postcard images are "public domain" which in high probability they will be

 

The Quay Front, Burnham-on-Crouch, Essex 1906. Originally produced as a Postcard in the early 1900's. High quality scan and restored from a postcard dated 18th October 1906 Stock Photo

 

 

 

So you believe that boat is not property? The houses? The pier?  

 

 

The questions reads

 

Is there any property in the image?

 

additional note: Property includes cars, building, brand, logo, etc.

 

 

 

How can you answer "No" to that question?   

Edited by meanderingemu
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4 hours ago, meanderingemu said:

 

 

 

So you believe that boat is not property? The houses? The pier?  

 

 

The questions reads

 

Is there any property in the image?

 

additional note: Property includes cars, building, brand, logo, etc.

 

 

 

How can you answer "No" to that question?   

 

There is property in the image but, in this case, I imagine it doesn't require a release. Answering yes or no is all down to how Alamy's question is interpreted.

 

https://discussion.alamy.com/topic/14028-property-release-required-for-nature/?do=findComment&comment=275813

 

Mark

 

 

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Just now, M.Chapman said:

 

There is property in the image but, in this case, I imagine it doesn't require a release. Answering yes or no is all down to how Alamy's question is interpreted.

 

https://discussion.alamy.com/topic/14028-property-release-required-for-nature/?do=findComment&comment=275813

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

to me the decision of the need of a release is with the Buyer.  I provide them with the information.  

 

The question does not ask about the release, it asks about property.  I may leave it blank, but i would never claim that there is No property if there is obviously something that qualifies as property.  

 

again to each their own.  I also find strange when people will state that there is no property under claim they believe the property owner will not be able to identify and prove ownership of what is in the image.  

 

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13 hours ago, meanderingemu said:

 

 

to me the decision of the need of a release is with the Buyer.  I provide them with the information.  

 

The question does not ask about the release, it asks about property.  I may leave it blank, but i would never claim that there is No property if there is obviously something that qualifies as property.  

 

again to each their own.  I also find strange when people will state that there is no property under claim they believe the property owner will not be able to identify and prove ownership of what is in the image.  

 

 

In recent years I generally follow the same principle as you. But, up until about 3 years ago, the question asked by AIM was "Does the image contain property that requires a release?" So I answered accordingly, and there's a large proportion of images on Alamy that are categorised that way.

 

Mark

Edited by M.Chapman
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