Twenty Five Cents - really?

[Chris Craggs]

I am used to the occasional 'affiliate sales' coming in at a few dollars, but I sold a shot yesterday for $0.25:

 

Country: Worldwide
Usage: Editorial, Single use across website and/or digital publication such as E-book or PDF, any size, any placement, in perpetuity.
Media: Website, app and social media
55 MB
5374 x 3583 pixels
2 MB compressed
Start: 22 January 2021
Duration: In perpetuity

 

Worldwide, 55meg, any size, any placement, in perpetuity - twenty five cents - got to be an error surely?

 

Anyone had anything similar?

 

Chris Craggs

[Kamira]

35 minutes ago, meanderingemu said:

 

OK, i understand that, but you have images uploaded last month, eleven years after joining.    this wouldn't  be worth my effort to make in a couple of month what you make in a day elsewhere. I know the places that didn't deliver for me i stopped making any upload efforts.   

Yes, I joined 11 years ago but I don't know why I never uploaded to Alamy until June 2020. Right after that other agency lowered their commissions.

 

 

[Cal]

23 minutes ago, Kamira said:

Yes, I joined 11 years ago but I don't know why I never uploaded to Alamy until June 2020. Right after that other agency lowered their commissions.

 

 

That’s probably not a long enough time to know whether it will work for you or not here then as some of your sales won’t even have been reported yet. 
 

I have usages from last autumn which only just got cleared recently and known usages from last year that haven’t even been reported yet. It can take several months from the image being downloaded to you having money in your account. You may be on month 7 but that’s barely enough time for regular sales to start kicking in. 

[Kamira]

29 minutes ago, Cal said:

That’s probably not a long enough time to know whether it will work for you or not here then as some of your sales won’t even have been reported yet. 
 

I have usages from last autumn which only just got cleared recently and known usages from last year that haven’t even been reported yet. It can take several months from the image being downloaded to you having money in your account. You may be on month 7 but that’s barely enough time for regular sales to start kicking in. 

Thanks. I'll give it more time.

[geogphotos]

8 hours ago, Kamira said:

Thanks. I'll give it more time.

 

 

If I were a buyer I might be tempted by the same images of yours at the other site you referred to - available at a much lower price than I would have to pay at Alamy for exactly the same image. 

[meanderingemu]

10 hours ago, Kamira said:

Yes, I joined 11 years ago but I don't know why I never uploaded to Alamy until June 2020. Right after that other agency lowered their commissions.

 

 

ok makes sense

[meanderingemu]

9 hours ago, Kamira said:

Thanks. I'll give it more time.

 

one quick thing i notice, you seem to be using a non optimal Caption format for Alamy which may affect your sales here is one example Image ID: 2DB75TB

"The Elephant House coffee house at Edinburgh, famous for being one of the places where JK Rowling wrote the Harry Pott"

 

You are not using the full 150 characters allowed, and truncating the end of the description, in this case not getting optimal placement for someone looking for "Harry Potter",  Many words i would also consider less likely to be search hits are used in there if you are low on characters.  

I think this is another weakness of using a same approach for all.  Each site has different optimisation process, if the goal is to optimise sale it should lead to an adapted approach.  

[Kamira]

3 hours ago, geogphotos said:

 

 

If I were a buyer I might be tempted by the same images of yours at the other site you referred to - available at a much lower price than I would have to pay at Alamy for exactly the same image. 

Of course. That's true.

 

But,.in general, you are not competing only with yourself. Unless your image is of an extremely specific subject (and then its market will be limited) you will be competing with thousands of images that might not be the same as yours but similar enough to be useful to illustrate the same concept.

[geogphotos]

39 minutes ago, Kamira said:

Of course. That's true.

 

But,.in general, you are not competing only with yourself. Unless your image is of an extremely specific subject (and then its market will be limited) you will be competing with thousands of images that might not be the same as yours but similar enough to be useful to illustrate the same concept.

 

Inadvertently I have ended up in a 'competing with myself' situation though not involving a micro stock site ( or at least it isn't supposed to be micro stock). I quite often see searches on Alamy turning up at the other place as low value sales. I have stopped submitting to the other agency as a consequence.

 

The only point I would make is that no assessment of Alamy's ability to sell can be made if  exactly the same images are available elsewhere at much lower prices. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by geogphotos

[MizBrown]

1 hour ago, Kamira said:

Of course. That's true.

 

But,.in general, you are not competing only with yourself. Unless your image is of an extremely specific subject (and then its market will be limited) you will be competing with thousands of images that might not be the same as yours but similar enough to be useful to illustrate the same concept.

 

Someone who had been an image buyer described their process: first look for free on Flickr or similar sites, then look at the microstock sites, then look at sites that are aiming higher.  Outside these forums, someone who did media for clients say that she wasn't going to Alamy these days because it was too expensive.  She took another look and decided that Alamy's prices were now lower enough to keep in mind.  

 

If you've got cheap images up elsewhere, the buyers may not see the same images at Alamy.    Or they can do a Google image search to find out if they can find a cheaper offer of the same image.

[Heilman Photography]

On 23/01/2021 at 11:16, David Pimborough said:

 

 

There's a certain other agency out there that think 10 cents is a good return on images 😒

Yes there is! and they have been around for awhile.

[Pawel Piotr]

If I had a sale here for 0.25 cents I would dropped Alamy immediately. I was encouraged by others on this forum to upload with a good key-wording and not expect sales in the first year. On this forum I often see 'Alamy is different than micro stock' and 25 cents would be a prove that it is not. Luckily my first sales here started well, good few mid sales $$ Fingers crossed for encouraging sales for every new starter here 

[geogphotos]

2 minutes ago, Pawel Piotr said:

If I had a sale here for 0.25 cents I would dropped Alamy immediately. I was encouraged by others on this forum to upload with a good key-wording and not expect sales in the first year. On this forum I often see 'Alamy is different than micro stock' and 25 cents would be a prove that it is not. Luckily my first sales here started well, good few mid sales $$ Fingers crossed for encouraging sales for every new starter here 

 

 

I don't understand your reasoning. Alamy is in the same market as all its competitors. Unlike micro stock the vast majority of Alamy sales are not at 25 cents. 

 

Now that you have some good sales why would you stop contributing over one or two 25 cent sales? 

[Pawel Piotr]

1 hour ago, geogphotos said:

 

 

I don't understand your reasoning. Alamy is in the same market as all its competitors. Unlike micro stock the vast majority of Alamy sales are not at 25 cents. 

 

Now that you have some good sales why would you stop contributing over one or two 25 cent sales? 

My reaonsing is simple. 0.25 as a first sale would be very discouraging. On Alamy it is common that you have to wait for this first one some time while on other stock agencies it is common that first sales come straight away. I would like to think about Alamy differently and from my short experience with different stock agencies I (6 moths on 4 different ones) I am aware Alamy is different - slow yet worth it. The experience would be different if 0.25, then I would rather think - slow and not worth my time. After all from all 4 agencies after 6 months the amount of $ I've gained is very similar. The only difference is that here I sold only few images and around hundreds another ones. 

[geogphotos]

7 hours ago, Pawel Piotr said:

My reaonsing is simple. 0.25 as a first sale would be very discouraging. On Alamy it is common that you have to wait for this first one some time while on other stock agencies it is common that first sales come straight away. I would like to think about Alamy differently and from my short experience with different stock agencies I (6 moths on 4 different ones) I am aware Alamy is different - slow yet worth it. The experience would be different if 0.25, then I would rather think - slow and not worth my time. After all from all 4 agencies after 6 months the amount of $ I've gained is very similar. The only difference is that here I sold only few images and around hundreds another ones. 

 

 

Yes it is certainly much more encouraging when you get the $$$ sales, and in the past $$$$ sales. 

 

We just have to take the penny sales 'on the chin'.

[Marianne]

I remember many years ago when Alamy started the occasional micro priced image concept - At first, I thought, "Why get 50 cents or a dollar for an occasional sale here when you can get thousands elsewhere that add up?" but quickly realized that wasn't a helpful analogy when Alamy licensed 2 images from the same studio shoot - one for a dollar and one for $250 - obviously the $250 made up for a lack of hundreds of piddly sales. Ultimately, I realized that the $1 sale, while distressing, did not take away from the $250 sale.  

 

It's a shame that micro prices are putting so much downward pressure on the market and that free sites are putting pressure on micro sites (look at the other A's decision to pay suppliers ahead of time to put a chunk of their images into a free section). Just last month I earned 52 and 41 cents from 2 sales from G, which isn't supposed to be micro, and which is a direct competitor to Alamy (for years many publications and sites have been licensing images from both Alamy & G for the same articles, calendars, etc.). My images ended up there through a site that was supposed to be licensing images for $250 & up. It's all discouraging, but even with a rash of low value sales here last year, my average license here is higher than elsewhere. That doesn't mean there weren't years when piddly prices elsewhere didn't add up to more than I earned here, but we all need to decide for ourselves which business model makes the most sense for us.  

 

I think that discussing other sites in relation to why we have chosen to put our images on Alamy isn't antithetical to being on an Alamy supported forum. A frank and open discussion about why the OP, while understandably distressed about the 25 cent sale, should not let it sour them on Alamy is important as we negotiate our way through a time of shrinking prices, a pandemic, and much uncertainty in the marketplace.

 

Alamy actively reached out to micro suppliers so it's really not fair for us to bash them for being here. Better to try to convince them why Alamy's model is better. 

 

The micros had a good run for a while, but their business model was unsustainable over the long run for photographers. Meanwhile, despite upheavals in the market and some disappointments, Alamy's suppliers have remained loyal. That says a lot. So, I'd encourage the OP to look at the recent 25 cent sale as a minor annoyance and hold on until a $$$ sale comes along. Or a string of $$ sales. 

[Kamira]

This is interesting.

 

https://brutallyhonestmicrostock.com/2018/02/06/do-alamy-buyers-search-elsewhere-answers-from-alamy/

[Dave Colman]

I have only just started my stock 'journey' by uploading here. Prior to that i used another company but can't easily get on to their site from here in China. So far no sales and very few views which I appreciate is down to my limited range of images although a lot will be unique. If I got a very small sale I would be happy, it's an acorn, a start for me but I can see the frustration of others. If you want to make lots of money it's not a help. 
Last year I entered 2 photo competitions in China, first in Shenzhen where I lived and got to the finals, netting me around £100. Next I moved to Jiaxing and entered 3 in their city competition getting 2nd,12th and 13th with 3 photos winning double the other competition amount. In doing so I was recognised by the head of foreign affairs and an article on Chinadaily site followed. Again it's acorns, slowly growing and spreading my photos around.
I suppose what I am trying to say is every little helps because you never know where it will lead, stay positive.
Of course if every sale was 25c then that's different.

[Brasilnut]

10 hours ago, Kamira said:

This is interesting.

 

https://brutallyhonestmicrostock.com/2018/02/06/do-alamy-buyers-search-elsewhere-answers-from-alamy/

 

Needs updating, although probably still relevant 2 1/2 years on that most buyers on here don't search elsewhere.

 

I've had the same image licensed on SS for 10cents and on here for $100. As James has mentioned, it comes down to much more than just pricing-points when buyers decide to shop somewhere for the same commodity. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Brasilnut

[Martin L]

10 hours ago, Kamira said:

This is interesting.

 

https://brutallyhonestmicrostock.com/2018/02/06/do-alamy-buyers-search-elsewhere-answers-from-alamy/

 

I have wanted to post a link to this article for a while but have upset enough of the red arrow wielding locals on here that I couldn't really be bothered.

Alex always has interesting articles on the general state of the stock industry (and while I have been typing he's replied)

 

I haven't bothered to submit to MS sites due to the crazy AI QC process and the paltry commission since the summer and just concentrate on Alamy. At least they are trying to do the right thing by me and I think that deserves my stupid little bit of support. 

 

I initially tried the idea of picking particular images for different sites in the hope that a bit of s**t would stick somewhere. In some cases it worked, certain images seemed to prove popular on some sites and kind of went a bit viral so they have licensed a lot.

The problem was I kept looking at the 'what images have sold thread' on different sites and worrying that I was doing something wrong with keywords and captions because I was sure my picture of a duck on a lake was better than that one. 

 

In the end this is just a hobby and recently I have gone back to what I enjoyed which was actually taking pictures. Sure if I get a license it beefs up my day but not quite as much as chimping and that warm glow that I nailed that shot just as I wanted.

 

Disclaimer: The sentiments of this post may change when I need a new lens and realize to do that I need to take more pictures of back lit businessmen shaking hands

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Martin L

[geogphotos]

I would have thought that Kamira's experience tends to disprove the hypothesis that having the same images on micro stock doesn't have much impact on Alamy sales. Maybe I misunderstood but I thought that he was complaining about the lack of sales here. 

[Martin L]

3 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

I would have thought that Kamira's experience tends to disprove the hypothesis that having the same images on micro stock doesn't have much impact on Alamy sales. Maybe I misunderstood but I thought that he was complaining about the lack of sales here. 

 

Yes he was claiming about lack of sales but that does not prove any hypothesis. We all know the rate of MS licenses and Alamy licenses are not comparable

Like Alex I have had image license on here for $$ and pennies on MS (not anymore as it has been removed from MS) which tends to disprove your disprove and goes along with James's theory in the article

[geogphotos]

8 minutes ago, Martin L said:

 

Yes he was claiming about lack of sales but that does not prove any hypothesis. We all know the rate of MS licenses and Alamy licenses are not comparable

Like Alex I have had image license on here for $$ and pennies on MS (not anymore as it has been removed from MS) which tends to disprove your disprove and goes along with James's theory in the article

 

 

"......we feel that for the majority of photographers, it’s best to maximise your reach and place your images with a range of distributors."

 

Indeed this is what Alamy always used to say but then they cut the commission on non-exclusive to 40%! 🙃

[meanderingemu]

2 hours ago, Brasilnut said:

 

Needs updating, although probably still relevant 2 1/2 years on that most buyers on here don't search elsewhere.

 

I've had the same image licensed on SS for 10cents and on here for $100. As James has mentioned, it comes down to much more than just pricing-points when buyers decide to shop somewhere for the same commodity. 

 

but how did James confirm that the 10cents purchase was not done by someone who found first here, then looked on a MS site?

 

In addition to get that 10 cents license, you would have paid Alamy an extra $25 commission on the other license (assuming it was not a distribution deal). 

Don't get me wrong i do believe there are viable hybrid approaches of using multiple distribution platform based on subject matters, but paying $25 extra for a few 10 cents licenses doesn't seem efficient.   

[Martin L]

1 hour ago, meanderingemu said:

 

but how did James confirm that the 10cents purchase was not done by someone who found first here, then looked on a MS site?

 

In addition to get that 10 cents license, you would have paid Alamy an extra $25 commission on the other license (assuming it was not a distribution deal). 

Don't get me wrong i do believe there are viable hybrid approaches of using multiple distribution platform based on subject matters, but paying $25 extra for a few 10 cents licenses doesn't seem efficient.   

 

10 cents are not what the buyer pays that is the commission the contributor gets.

Yes buyers can get a lot cheaper licenses but only applies if they have bought a monthly/yearly subscription allowing them 10/50/100 downloads depending on their package.

If they have a subscription license I doubt they will have looked on Alamy first, they would have gone straight to their subscribed site.