Richard Baker Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 So the current thinking on ex-Corbis Getty percentages is that they'll will be roughly half of what we were on before the sale: 25c in the $. Depending on what your deal was: Either formerly a 50/50, 60/40 or less again if with a sub-agent. Also, there would be a search result bias in favour of Getty images over Corbis material although the example is for News. Even after the loss of the 10% that we had to endure here at Alamy a few years ago, it does make Alamy a healthier proposition. I just wish the overall sales volume was larger. This blog seems to be on top of things: http://photobusinessforum.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/corbis-sale-to-unity-glory-and-getty.html Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin P Wilson Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 So the current thinking on ex-Corbis Getty percentages is that they'll will be roughly half of what we were on before the sale: 25c in the $. Depending on what your deal was: Either formerly a 50/50, 60/40 or less again if with a sub-agent. Also, there would be a search result bias in favour of Getty images over Corbis material although the example is for News. Even after the loss of the 10% that we had to endure here at Alamy a few years ago, it does make Alamy a healthier proposition. I just wish the overall sales volume was larger. This blog seems to be on top of things: http://photobusinessforum.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/corbis-sale-to-unity-glory-and-getty.html Richard. There was so little transparency on prices and commissions when Demotix was part of Corbis I would not be surprised if the net commission was 25%, or less, well before the sale. Judging by fees achieved, when they bothered to collect them, it certainly felt like it. In many cases I think the crowdsouring (Freudian slip?) model works on the basis that they can throw a few coppers at the 'crowd' and most will be chuffed. The casual contributor gets their picture in print, an ego boost and they got paid (peanuts), the monkies think they are professional (to interpret the old adage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reciprocity Images Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 So the current thinking on ex-Corbis Getty percentages is that they'll will be roughly half of what we were on before the sale: 25c in the $. Depending on what your deal was: Either formerly a 50/50, 60/40 or less again if with a sub-agent. Also, there would be a search result bias in favour of Getty images over Corbis material although the example is for News. Even after the loss of the 10% that we had to endure here at Alamy a few years ago, it does make Alamy a healthier proposition. I just wish the overall sales volume was larger. This blog seems to be on top of things: http://photobusinessforum.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/corbis-sale-to-unity-glory-and-getty.html Richard. No idea where those numbers are coming from, seems he just pulled them out of thin air? They do not seem at all accurate to me. -Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Baker Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 They do not seem at all accurate to me. I'd not be at all surprised if these are the ballpark numbers, Jason - it seems to be the norm with these people. But time will tell. Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian58 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Well what have we got to lose??? since Europe and the US seems to be totally and utterly skint and Fk-ed beyond comprehension! lets wait and see what happens? but lets just keep the nukes away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerinF Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Deleted - that will teach me for trying to pcopy and paste text from iPhone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerinF Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Anyhow, on the historic archive point, an article in the Time states that Getty will manage Corbis physical archives on behalf of VCG, and continue to look at ways of digitizing / commercialising that content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reciprocity Images Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 They do not seem at all accurate to me. I'd not be at all surprised if these are the ballpark numbers, Jason - it seems to be the norm with these people. But time will tell. Richard. Not defending G at all mind you- Certainly don't disagree with the premise of the article at all (bad deal for photographers!), but otherwise it sounds like he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about (just didn't do his research). Corbis contributors have not been on a 50/50 royalty split for some time (before 2008?). After 2010 or so when Corbis introduced the contributor gateway with updated contracts, most have been around 30-40% depending on exclusivity. Agencies on the other hand will have individual agreements (%), and generally do not allow for further sub-distribution as laid out in the article. Second of all, he has the projected royalty split after the Getty migration totally wrong. Individual photographs will/may be offered standard Getty contacts, which are generally around 20% RF / 30%RM (this can also vary) to the contributor. The 'Content' that VCG now owns (and stands to profit from) is the large archives- Not the work of individual photographers/agencies. Photographers have the choice of either signing a contract with Getty directly and having their content migrated, or taking their files and walking. VCG has no hold on that content, and does not stand to take a cut after the content is migrated to Getty. Fact remains: the ones losing out are definitely the photographers (and certainly not just those in the G+C world), and of course the many people who have now lost their jobs over at Corbis Images. -Jason edit: spelling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Brook Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels Quist Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Got a first e-mail from Demotix today. More information will follow later.... Nothing in it we didn't already know, but at least good to know that we will be further informed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Brooks Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 If only they could have done it with 300 instead of over 600 staff, we might be in a different place now. I think that different place was not where Corbis wanted to be. It could be that Corbis used the extra staff to build the Greenlight assets, that they are now keeping. I think this plan has been years in the making, and I think in a way the Corbis photographers helped finance it. Nine years ago Corbis hired a new CEO, with Hollywood experience, who said he was going to transition Corbis more into rights management. This is why he was hired. He talked about the strategy in 2012 here. http://www.seattlebusinessmag.com/article/executive-qa-gary-shenk-ceo-corbis-corporation?page=0,0 These are the Greenlight assets that Corbis is retaining, and that in Corbis’ words “are thriving”. I think Corbis used the image side of the business, and your photographs, to buy time. Time enough to build Greenlight and then sell the money loosing image business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Got a first e-mail from Demotix today. More information will follow later.... Nothing in it we didn't already know, but at least good to know that we will be further informed. Got that one too. Perhaps they read the Alamy forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losdemas Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Got a first e-mail from Demotix today. More information will follow later.... Nothing in it we didn't already know, but at least good to know that we will be further informed. Got that one too. Perhaps they read the Alamy forum. Not for me - looks like my one story wasn't worth an e-mail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Got a first e-mail from Demotix today. More information will follow later.... Nothing in it we didn't already know, but at least good to know that we will be further informed. Got that one too. Perhaps they read the Alamy forum. Not for me - looks like my one story wasn't worth an e-mail Guess that's just part of life when you're a citizen journalist. P.S. You can have my e-mail if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Brook Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 On 28/01/2016 at 16:41, Bill Brooks said: On 28/01/2016 at 00:54, Robert Brook said: Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin P Wilson Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 If only they could have done it with 300 instead of over 600 staff, we might be in a different place now. I think that different place was not where Corbis wanted to be. It could be that Corbis used the extra staff to build the Greenlight assets, that they are now keeping. ... These are the Greenlight assets that Corbis is retaining, and that in Corbis’ words “are thriving”. I think Corbis used the image side of the business, and your photographs, to buy time. Time enough to build Greenlight and then sell the money loosing image business. I think you are partly right, Bill in that the branded entertainment business was an answer to the situation where "Publisher demand for quality images was shrinking while amateur photographers flooded the market with cheap photos", but there might not have been any intention to lose half the business. They may have also wrong-footed Getty. Even Klein seemed to take the view that Bill Gates had no interest in Corbis. And now Getty, who already are struggling to sell most of their collection – yes, anything that is saleable they can sell like no other, but that represents a small portion of the whole – now have to decide whether to more than double the size of the collection or lose a lot to potential competitors. The big question in that case will be: where would ex-Corbis (& Getty) contributors go? If they were from other libraries and were "crowd" contributors they might well just give up. Because Corbis and Getty had more demanding selection criteria I guess many, perhaps most, will be full time photographers and probably need the income. Will they flood into Alamy, Shutterstock, or where? Is there now any library that really has the reach that Corbis and Getty have had and would be atrractive to the full time contributor? I guess a few specialists might find a worthwhile home with bigger niche libraries. But for the rest, it is not looking good I am afraid. As for the rest of us mere mortals ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 If only they could have done it with 300 instead of over 600 staff, we might be in a different place now. I think that different place was not where Corbis wanted to be. It could be that Corbis used the extra staff to build the Greenlight assets, that they are now keeping. ... These are the Greenlight assets that Corbis is retaining, and that in Corbis’ words “are thriving”. I think Corbis used the image side of the business, and your photographs, to buy time. Time enough to build Greenlight and then sell the money loosing image business. I think you are partly right, Bill in that the branded entertainment business was an answer to the situation where "Publisher demand for quality images was shrinking while amateur photographers flooded the market with cheap photos", but there might not have been any intention to lose half the business. They may have also wrong-footed Getty. Even Klein seemed to take the view that Bill Gates had no interest in Corbis. And now Getty, who already are struggling to sell most of their collection – yes, anything that is saleable they can sell like no other, but that represents a small portion of the whole – now have to decide whether to more than double the size of the collection or lose a lot to potential competitors. The big question in that case will be: where would ex-Corbis (& Getty) contributors go? If they were from other libraries and were "crowd" contributors they might well just give up. Because Corbis and Getty had more demanding selection criteria I guess many, perhaps most, will be full time photographers and probably need the income. Will they flood into Alamy, Shutterstock, or where? Is there now any library that really has the reach that Corbis and Getty have had and would be atrractive to the full time contributor? I guess a few specialists might find a worthwhile home with bigger niche libraries. But for the rest, it is not looking good I am afraid. As for the rest of us mere mortals ... That is a big question indeed. Are you saying that when the going gets Getty, the Getty get going? I really should stop procrastinating get back to my keywording... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerinF Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 And here's a thought: is the Stockimo / Shutterstock distribution deal the thin edge of the wedge? Will the Corbis / Getty deal prompt Alamy and Shutterstock into a merger / larger distribution deal? Is everything headed towards 3 mega agencies - getty/corbis, alamy/shutterstock amd fotolia (adobe)? And then some niche players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesC Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 And here's a thought: is the Stockimo / Shutterstock distribution deal the thin edge of the wedge? Will the Corbis / Getty deal prompt Alamy and Shutterstock into a merger / larger distribution deal? Is everything headed towards 3 mega agencies - getty/corbis, alamy/shutterstock amd fotolia (adobe)? And then some niche players. Alamy/shutterstock would not surprise me at all.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Mitchell Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 And here's a thought: is the Stockimo / Shutterstock distribution deal the thin edge of the wedge? Will the Corbis / Getty deal prompt Alamy and Shutterstock into a merger / larger distribution deal? Is everything headed towards 3 mega agencies - getty/corbis, alamy/shutterstock amd fotolia (adobe)? And then some niche players. Alamy/shutterstock would not surprise me at all.. I sure hope not. Alamy's philosophy is unique in the current marketplace. It would be a real shame to see them veer off the road into microstock territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian58 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 And here's a thought: is the Stockimo / Shutterstock distribution deal the thin edge of the wedge? Will the Corbis / Getty deal prompt Alamy and Shutterstock into a merger / larger distribution deal? Is everything headed towards 3 mega agencies - getty/corbis, alamy/shutterstock amd fotolia (adobe)? And then some niche players. Alamy/shutterstock would not surprise me at all.. I doubt that very much! Shutterstock is in the unique position not to need anybody, for better or worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Baker Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 .. Is everything headed towards 3 mega agencies .. Although not mega in the sense of tens of millions, don't forget Magnum. Rgds, Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin P Wilson Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 The big question in that case will be: where would ex-Corbis (& Getty) contributors go? If they were from other libraries and were "crowd" contributors they might well just give up. Because Corbis and Getty had more demanding selection criteria I guess many, perhaps most, will be full time photographers and probably need the income. Will they flood into Alamy, Shutterstock, or where? Is there now any library that really has the reach that Corbis and Getty have had and would be atrractive to the full time contributor? I guess a few specialists might find a worthwhile home with bigger niche libraries. But for the rest, it is not looking good I am afraid. As for the rest of us mere mortals ... I think I am seeing one more door shut. An agent who not so long ago was touting for new photographers deciding to increase its minimum payout from $200 to $500. Then you really need to be sure that your work will get the income to get that payout. I reckon a lot of imagery will disappear in the takeover. A lot is/was doubled up anyway. A lot is probably past its shelf life. Some people are alas no longer around to take the decision. A lot of people at Corbis subsidiaries will soon be finding out the joys of sorting out an ITIN. It would be interesting to know what the run off is from such a decision. How many decide it is not for them and what the reason is. It might be a case of musical chairs, or is it pass the parcel? As the more 'valuable' of the Corbis/Getty leavers find new representation, they will get taken on by other libraries. Then might those other libraries use it as an opportunity to cull their less valuable/active contributors to make space? One way would be to do it by raising the payout threshold perhaps (as your example) and make the departures self selecting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels Quist Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 I haven't received more information than the first and only e-mail mentioned above. Has anyone of you with images on Corbis via DEMOTIX asked for a deletion of your images? I can see that there are uses I haven't been paid for, and, in fact, I think I will never be. We were paid via DEMOTIX for these uses - and have no direct access to Corbis. I have a feeling that images may still be sold without being paid for. On the other hand I would like to hear about any future solution they may come up with before I do anything as drastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin P Wilson Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 I would wait until at least after usual pay day of 20-24th. Also bear in mind that the Chinese New Year holiday only finishes today and some people will still be off next week. VCG has probably not progressed anything for at least a week and GI will probably not have been able to get any decisions from them. Personally,fort news I have used Alamy Live News exclusively since spring 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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