Digital camera not suitable for Alamy

[MDM]

2 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

Unfortunately Alamy seem to be pretty short of S/W resource. There are numerous tweaks they could make (e.g. removing the counterproductive "Discoverability" bar) to improve things, but their priorities are elsewhere. It must be quite a challenge just keeping up with the software and hardware mods to maintain system response times as the image database has expanded massively, whilst at the same time $ returns/image hosted continue to fall. I suspect a lot of their code is old and hard to maintain too, so fixing one thing risks breaking something else. It's a tough sector.

 

Mark

 

This is four blind men and an elephant stuff as we have no real idea what the system is really like but they do need to weigh up what they are losing and going to lose by not allowing phone photography. The unmentionable S is irrelevant - that was all based around early Instragram type funky stuff. Now we are talking real editorial photography on phones that can be of acceptable quality. I think they will need to invest to adapt to survive and grow, given the impact that AI is having and will have on stock photography. 

[geogphotos]

Sad to say but I very much doubt there will significant investment in developing Alamy. It's simply a matter of basic cost benefit analysis.

 

Alamy is profitable and will continue to be though it will become harder and harder to grow profitability, everything has already been squeezed.

 

I see Alamy now as essentially a milch cow for PA Media.

Edited June 13 by geogphotos

[Harry Harrison]

I wonder if Alamy will appoint a new Managing Director, the current incumbent must be very busy now.

Edited June 14 by Harry Harrison
incumbent not encumbent!

[geogphotos]

22 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

I wonder if Alamy will appoint a new Managing Director, the current encumbent must be very busy now.

 

 

......and if any appointment is from within PA Media.

[Harry Harrison]

8 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

......and if any appointment is from within PA Media.

Oh Ian, I was just going to correct my spelling mistake!

 

(I'll do it anyway)

[MDM]

Best not to stray into areas that are completely irrelevant to the subject of the thread and might lead to it getting shut down if it goes too far in the wrong direction. My mention of investment was purely related to speculation about what type of QC system would be required to deal with phone submisions. There is some useful information here for future reference in relation to mobile phone submissions if similar questions arise with a link to an example of a failed image. 

Edited June 14 by MDM

[geogphotos]

45 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

Oh Ian, I was just going to correct my spelling mistake!

 

(I'll do it anyway)

 

 

No worries ----you are amongst friends 😃

 

Emily Shelley is also President of Cepic nowadays so her Inbox must be overflowing.

[MDM]

To paraphrase Harry Redknapp talking about Jermain Defoe's tendency to be offside, some people are born off-topic it seems. 

[geogphotos]

This isn't the right thread to be talking about football. 

[Harry Harrison]

Well, I'd say it was a game of two halves. It started off as a discussion about a phone image from an Iphone 15 rejected by Alamy but the OP himself has expanded it into a discussion of how Alamy might deal with phone images in the future. Various interesting propositions have been made ranging from the very simple, mainly relying on trust without the technology to back it up right up to a presumably Sci-Fi version suggested by myself where AI could provide the solution. Since elephants have already been mentioned in the thread I'm hopefully not off topic by saying that the elephant in the room is how other libraries handle it but of course we cannot discuss that.

 

[MDM]

27 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

Well, I'd say it was a game of two halves. It started off as a discussion about a phone image from an Iphone 15 rejected by Alamy but the OP himself has expanded it into a discussion of how Alamy might deal with phone images in the future. Various interesting propositions have been made ranging from the very simple, mainly relying on trust without the technology to back it up right up to a presumably Sci-Fi version suggested by myself where AI could provide the solution. Since elephants have already been mentioned in the thread I'm hopefully not off topic by saying that the elephant in the room is how other libraries handle it but of course we cannot discuss that.

 

 

Sure Harry. I totally agree. As you know we have had numerous discussions here and by email and there is no problem whatsoever between you and me. I just wouldn't want the thread to turn into a discussion of Alamy's management personnel which could result in problems. I think it has been a really interesting topic to date with a lot of interesting ideas as well as a practical example of a failed phone image from which I've learnt quite a bit. It would be great to hear something new from Alamy about where they are going with phone pictures. 

 

I'm not so sure it's an elephant in the room. I'm  more inclined to think dinsoaur but I'm shooting blind on that. Let's hope there is no penalty to pay for that statement 😎

Edited June 14 by MDM

[spacecadet]

5 minutes ago, MDM said:

It would be great to hear something new from Alamy about

..........anything at all.🙁

[Harry Harrison]

10 minutes ago, MDM said:

I think it has been a really interesting topic to date with a lot of interesting ideas as well as a practical example of a failed phone image from which I've learnt quite a bit.

Yes, for me too, my ancient 2016 SE is mainly used for recording meter readings and progress photos when I've taken things apart for repair. A high point for me was when I was struggling to replace the driveshaft on my car back in frozen January. I suddenly realised that I could see just what kind of damaged bolt head I was dealing with by photographing it even though I couldn't actually see it. Not one to upload to Alamy though, even on S.

[spacecadet]

3 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

A high point for me was when I was struggling to replace the driveshaft on my car back in frozen January. I suddenly realised that I could see just what kind of damaged bolt head I was dealing with by photographing it even though I couldn't actually see it.

You'd love an endoscope, then. Plugs right in to the camera, or battery pack, and wifis to the phone. Great for car stuff/fixing/a lot of things you didn't know you needed it for.😉

Still on the handed-down SE here as well. I can reach the buttons and it actually goes in a shirt pocket.

[Harry Harrison]

13 minutes ago, spacecadet said:

You'd love an endoscope, then. Plugs right in to the camera, or battery pack, and wifis to the phone. Great for car stuff/fixing/a lot of things you didn't know you needed it for.😉

Still on the handed-down SE here as well. I can reach the buttons and it actually goes in a shirt pocket.

This really is deviation big time (Sorry!). I've seen those on Youtube, very neat, everyday workshop tool these days.

[geogphotos]

We used to hear a lot from Alamy back in the day but it was a completely different beast back then. It was owned and run by the same people and they were entrepreneurial and especially interested in exploring what new technology could do. Alamy was, lets not forget it, a completely disruptive arrival in the stock photography market.

 

Those days have long gone. It is now part of a business conglomerate and its development is not down to a couple of passionate owners and certainly not down to its employees. Decisions about Alamy's future are taken in the boardroom of PA Media rather than by, as was, James West and close associates. 

 

Having just closed down Stockimo it seems unlikely to me that the ingestion of phone images into the main catalogue would be a current investment.priority.  

 

Edited June 14 by geogphotos

[wiskerke]

1 hour ago, Harry Harrison said:

Yes, for me too, my ancient 2016 SE is mainly used for recording meter readings and progress photos when I've taken things apart for repair. A high point for me was when I was struggling to replace the driveshaft on my car back in frozen January. I suddenly realised that I could see just what kind of damaged bolt head I was dealing with by photographing it even though I couldn't actually see it. Not one to upload to Alamy though, even on S.

 

Maybe if you would have an accompanying image of someone taking that picture, or even just a hand with the phone reaching into that dark narrow space.

BTW I have the same story about looking into the innards of an in-wall toilet tank or under floor pipe systems. And have never thought about it either.

 

Are there images on Alamy with people using a phone in repair or diy situations? There are some of a mechanics and a car. Some even of real people (as opposed to obvious models). But how would a client search for such an image? And do clients like models more than real people? Not in general, because that is probably the case, but here on Alamy?

One of the use cases for phone imagery through an app was the slice of life style: real people doing real things. (Which looked a lot better if performed by real models.)

Maybe that use case disappeared with some of the agencies that originally were phone-only coming on board of Alamy as preferred partner. Those also take care of the vetting. Win-win.

 

wim

 

[Betty LaRue]

24 minutes ago, wiskerke said:

 

Maybe if you would have an accompanying image of someone taking that picture, or even just a hand with the phone reaching into that dark narrow space.

BTW I have the same story about looking into the innards of an in-wall toilet tank or under floor pipe systems. And have never thought about it either.

 

Are there images on Alamy with people using a phone in repair or diy situations? There are some of a mechanics and a car. Some even of real people (as opposed to obvious models). But how would a client search for such an image? And do clients like models more than real people? Not in general, because that is probably the case, but here on Alamy?

One of the use cases for phone imagery through an app was the slice of life style: real people doing real things. (Which looked a lot better if performed by real models.)

Maybe that use case disappeared with some of the agencies that originally were phone-only coming on board of Alamy as preferred partner. Those also take care of the vetting. Win-win.

 

wim

 

Yep, win win wim. 😉

[Mark Scheuern]

3 hours ago, Harry Harrison said:

Yes, for me too, my ancient 2016 SE is mainly used for recording meter readings and progress photos when I've taken things apart for repair. A high point for me was when I was struggling to replace the driveshaft on my car back in frozen January. I suddenly realised that I could see just what kind of damaged bolt head I was dealing with by photographing it even though I couldn't actually see it. Not one to upload to Alamy though, even on S.

 

To go further off-topic, it works especially well if you have an Apple Watch because you can live view what your phone is seeing, on your watch, without being able to see the phone's screen. 

[Harry Harrison]

17 minutes ago, Mark Scheuern said:

To go further off-topic, it works especially well if you have an Apple Watch because you can live view what your phone is seeing, on your watch, without being able to see the phone's screen. 

Thanks, I didn't know that though I haven't got an Apple Watch. It would have been a pretty hostile environment for something as expensive as one of those, it was a pretty hostile environment for me.

[Harry Harrison]

1 hour ago, wiskerke said:

One of the use cases for phone imagery through an app was the slice of life style:

Well it certainly was a slice of life, though unplanned and unwelcome, particularly in January. It should have been a routine job of replacing the CV joint but it didn't turn out that way. Hostile conditions for photography also though I must say it never crossed my mind.

[spacecadet]

8 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

Well it certainly was a slice of life, though unplanned and unwelcome, particularly in January. It should have been a routine job of replacing the CV joint but it didn't turn out that way. Hostile conditions for photography also though I must say it never crossed my mind.

Tell me about it. Our MoT is due in January so naturally I do all the big jobs in summer. Do I fishcakes.😍 And we have a garage. No actual snow or Arctic winds I suppose.

And as for "routine jobs"- taking out the bins is a routine job. Car, not.

Edited June 14 by spacecadet

[Kent Johnson]

I will wade in here as I am always curious about the camera VS the content issue of which this may, may be one. First I went and looked at a gallery of iPHONE 15 images, full resolution here; and looked at about 10 of them, at full res, at 100% and - I was completely underwhelmed. Even the best files I perused looked like the the phones image processor had done a very hard job knocking the pixels into more-or-less the right place; and I did not see a single file that had any level of true sharp focus/plane of focus as I expect to achieve shooting with quality glass and a decent digital camera. 

 

For a phone, and viewing at less than 100%, terrific - but as a camera for photography - i15 is still way, way below par. Thanks for encouraging me to keep-up with what's going on with the best in phone photography - not that great, amazing, but not that great.

 

https://www.dpreview.com/samples/2098447607/iphone-15-pro-sample-gallery

Edited June 17 by Kent Johnson

[M.Chapman]

Thanks for the link to those iPhone 15 pro images.

 

I don’t think anyone’s claiming that an iPhone 15’s image quality can match a modern digital camera with 1” (or larger) sensor and a decent lens. The question is can the iPhone 15 produce images that would meet Alamy QC standard? Downloading some of those RAW example files, processing in LR and downsizing to 6MP (to just meet Alamy's minimum size requirement) I’d say they could easily meet Alamy QC standards, if Alamy allowed them to be submitted.

 

Mark

[Harry Harrison]

6 hours ago, Kent Johnson said:

Even the best files I perused looked like the the phones image processor and done a very hard job knocking the pixels into more-or-less the right place

Thanks for the link, I look forward to downloading them and taking a look but I think you've identified the weak spot with mobile phones and Iphones in particular when it comes to Alamy and how they are going to manage and control the quality of images from mobile phones in the future as they have said they are planning to do.

 

I've seen Apple criticised for their processing in reviews of mobile phones for photography for this very reason and although no-one on this thread is claiming that they can match, say, a 1" sensor Sony RX100 for quality it's certainly true to say that Apple's marketing would like you to believe that it can, and they've been doing that for years. I dare anyone to try and make sense of the marketing gobbledygook that passes for specifications on their website. "Pro camera system (48MP Main, 12MP Ultra Wide, and 12MP Telephoto), .5x, 1x, 2x, 3x optical zoom options, Photonic Engine, Deep Fusion..." 

 

Of course I don't have an Iphone 15 Pro to try but from what I've read it's their version of "You press the button, we do the rest" except now it's the computational photography processing that's taken over, and how much that affects the quality will depend upon which of the three lens/sensor combinations is being used, and which of the 4 optical zoom settings, if any, the shooting conditions and of course somewhere in the mix is the actual photographer.

 

 

Edited June 15 by Harry Harrison