Am I being Stupid?

[Carolyn Jenkins]

 

Am I being Stupid? 

 

I originally uploaded an image of mine 2NFKFGY with a minimum of tags. I later amended the caption, added more tags and selected the supertags. 

 

If I search on the image using the reference id 2NFKFGY and hover over the image I see the old caption Carnival goer dressed in splendid costume and mask during Venice Carnival 2023 at Venice, Italy in February. If I click on the image I see the amended caption Carnival goers dressed in splendid costumes and masks during Venice Carnival 2023 at Porta Magna, Arsenale, Venice, Italy in February. I can also see the tags I added.

 

One of the changes I made was adding Arsenale as a tag and in the caption. If I do a search for my images for Arsenale in Alamy or in AIM I cannot see this image (similars, but not this one). Similarly if I do a search for other tags I added I cannot see this image appearing in the search results.

 

These were changes I made back in February, on Monday 27/2 and/or Tuesday 28/2. This is just one example. If it was just this one image I would just make another change and resave it to try and get the changes rolled out, but I made changes to probably about a 100 images at the same time. I know other images I changed at the same time have the same problem, but I didn't keep a record of all the images I made changes to! 

 

I have cleared the cache and history, tried different browsers, but whatever I do when searching using any of the tags added, or words added to the caption, I cannot see this image returned in the results. I raised this issue with Alamy and have given them screenshots showing the problem, (of the image showing the caption when hovering over the image, when clicking on the image showing the updated caption & tags and showing the tags in AIM), but after all this time the issue has still not been resolved and I am feeling very frustrated.

 

So am  I being stupid? If you were to search using words in the amended caption or the tags added can you see this image? (the original tags were TODO, a, 2023, Venice, Italy, Venetian, Italian, February, winter, Venezia, Europe, European, vertical) and if I do a search on my images using any of these words I DO see the image in the search results, just not when searching using the others I later added!

[Harry Harrison]

Just to confirm that I see the same as you, searching for Venice & Arsenale under your 'Contributor name' filter brings up 39 images including the very similar 2N86Y0X but not 2NFKFGY. The hover text over the thumbnail for 2NFKFGY is incorrect as it is for you.

 

I've just checked a group of images where a couple of weeks ago I discovered and corrected a typo in the caption and I had to change one word. These display correctly, i.e. the hover text matches the corrected caption. Weird.

 

Is it that it has been passed to the IT Team but you've heard nothing more or have they simply been unable to understand what is going on?

 

Edit: I'm thinking that these are the same images in fact but 2N86Y0X has been uploaded under Live News whereas 2NFKFGY has been processed slightly differently and uploaded normally, could this be a factor? Still shouldn't happen of course.

Edited June 18, 2023 by Harry Harrison

[Carolyn Jenkins]

33 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

Just to confirm that I see the same as you, searching for Venice & Arsenale under your 'Contributor name' filter brings up 39 images including the very similar 2N86Y0X but not 2NFKFGY. The hover text over the thumbnail for 2NFKFGY is incorrect as it is for you.

 

I've just checked a group of images where a couple of weeks ago I discovered and corrected a typo in the caption and I had to change one word. These display correctly, i.e. the hover text matches the corrected caption. Weird.

 

Is it that it has been passed to the IT Team but you've heard nothing more or have they simply been unable to understand what is going on?

 

Edit: I'm thinking that these are the same images in fact but 2N86Y0X has been uploaded under Live News whereas 2NFKFGY has been processed slightly differently and uploaded normally, could this be a factor? Still shouldn't happen of course.

Thank Harry for checking and your comments. Another example is 2NFKG0T (which wasn't the same as a Live News image). CR advised they raised the issue with IT back in March and I have been chasing ever since (no response from IT Team as far as I know) and I have asked for it to be escalated - IT are busy, have higher priorities etc etc - when won't they be busy? I think it will still be the same next year and the longer it goes on I think the less chance of being fixed. Spent several hours on updating the tags/captions and I don't know all the images that were impacted (they weren't all Venice ones)! 

[Harry Harrison]

19 minutes ago, Carolyn Jenkins said:

IT are busy, have higher priorities etc etc

Well it's a shame to say it but that does seem to pretty much a stock response when IT issues have been raised, I've raised one or two  myself on here but time passes by and you realise that nothing is going to happen. It puts you off even raising them which is probably the intention.

 

Right, the Live News factor was a false flag then, just thought I'd mention it.

Edited June 18, 2023 by Harry Harrison

[Harry Harrison]

49 minutes ago, Carolyn Jenkins said:

Spent several hours on updating the tags/captions and I don't know all the images that were impacted

If they haven't looked into it how do they know that it isn't a serious problem affecting many contributors and possibly untold numbers of images. If they have looked into it then why not a simple acknowledgement because if they look at the underlying data tables they should be able to see exactly where this incorrect data is being drawn from.

 

Rhetorical questions!

 

 

[M.Chapman]

There must be various processes that transfer the changes we make in AIM into various live online databases. This usually happens within 24 hours of us making the changes in AIM. Maybe, in this case, the process didn't fully complete, leaving parts of the system "out of sync". It might be worth "giving the system a kick" to force a fresh synchronisation? Tedious to do one image at a time, so how about trying the following to force a bulk refresh?

 

In AIM, select any images that might be affected and add a single made up and unique keyword/tag (e.g "updatefail") to all of them at once. Then hit Save. Wait 24 hours for the change to propagate into the online databases. Then reselect the same images in AIM (search for the unique keyword) and remove the unique keyword from all of them, and hit save again. Check in 24 hours to see if the problem is fixed.

 

Mark

Edited June 18, 2023 by M.Chapman

[sooth]

3 hours ago, Harry Harrison said:

If they haven't looked into it how do they know that it isn't a serious problem affecting many contributors and possibly untold numbers of images. If they have looked into it then why not a simple acknowledgement because if they look at the underlying data tables they should be able to see exactly where this incorrect data is being drawn from.

 

Rhetorical questions!

 

 

https://discussion.alamy.com/topic/16684-new-contract-changes/?do=findComment&comment=338673

 

 

also the "date taken" field is incorrect. it should pull the data from the aim, not from the photo metadata. i don't know how many times i mention this on this forum, they read it, but don't give a crap. and won't fix it.

Edited June 18, 2023 by sooth

[Carolyn Jenkins]

1 hour ago, M.Chapman said:

There must be various processes that transfer the changes we make in AIM into various live online databases. This usually happens within 24 hours of us making the changes in AIM. Maybe, in this case, the process didn't fully complete, leaving parts of the system "out of sync". It might be worth "giving the system a kick" to force a fresh synchronisation? Tedious to do one image at a time, so how about trying the following to force a bulk refresh?

 

In AIM, select any images that might be affected and add a single made up and unique keyword/tag (e.g "updatefail") to all of them at once. Then hit Save. Wait 24 hours for the change to propagate into the online databases. Then reselect the same images in AIM (search for the unique keyword) and remove the unique keyword from all of them, and hit save again. Check in 24 hours to see if the problem is fixed.

 

Mark

Mark you are right. I did do exactly that to a few images when I realised the problem and they were then ok. The problem I had was I didn’t know all the images I had made changes to. I did suggest that if it was easier for the IT team, if they could give me a listing of all the images I had made changes to over these 2 days  I would then go back into AIM and make a further change, save and hopefully ALL the changes would then be propagated. Of course if the problem was wider than just my images it wouldn’t solve the problem, but it would resolve the problem for me. Unfortunately I haven’t heard anything whatsoever from the IT team and I can’t see what else I can do.

[M.Chapman]

1 hour ago, Carolyn Jenkins said:

Mark you are right. I did do exactly that to a few images when I realised the problem and they were then ok. The problem I had was I didn’t know all the images I had made changes to. I did suggest that if it was easier for the IT team, if they could give me a listing of all the images I had made changes to over these 2 days  I would then go back into AIM and make a further change, save and hopefully ALL the changes would then be propagated. Of course if the problem was wider than just my images it wouldn’t solve the problem, but it would resolve the problem for me. Unfortunately I haven’t heard anything whatsoever from the IT team and I can’t see what else I can do.

That's why I suggested the method above because it doesn't matter whether you include unaffected images too. If you remember a broad category for the images you changed (e.g. they were all images of Venice), do a search in AIM for your images of Venice, select all of them, then add a dummy keyword, save, wait 24hrs. Then remove the dummy keyword and resave.

 

Unfortunately if any of the images already has 50 keywords it won't work (can't add another). If so, there's another possible strategy. Suppose the affected images all contain "venice" in the tags. Select all images of Venice in AIM, delete the tag "venice" and add a new tag "venicefail", then save, wait 24 hours, then select all images of "venicefail", delete the "venicefail" tag, and add a new tag "venice". Be careful if Venice is a tag in some and a supertag in others though as you may mess up your supertags.

 

Mark

Edited June 18, 2023 by M.Chapman

[wiskerke]

2 hours ago, M.Chapman said:

Unfortunately if any of the images already has 50 keywords it won't work (can't add another).

You could alter the caption as an alternative. That's always possible.

 

wim

[M.Chapman]

45 minutes ago, wiskerke said:

You could alter the caption as an alternative. That's always possible.

 

wim

How do you do that in bulk and then restore the originals?

 

Mark

[wiskerke]

2 hours ago, M.Chapman said:

How do you do that in bulk and then restore the originals?

 

Mark

True, you would have to weed those out by hand anyway.

I was only thinking about how to add a code word to an image with 50+ keywords. 

Adding and restoring would then have to be done by spreadsheet.

 

wim

[M.Chapman]

4 hours ago, wiskerke said:

Adding and restoring would then have to be done by spreadsheet.

I wonder if Alamy still offer that service? I found it very useful.

 

Mark

[sb photos]

18 hours ago, Carolyn Jenkins said:

Thank Harry for checking and your comments. Another example is 2NFKG0T (which wasn't the same as a Live News image). CR advised they raised the issue with IT back in March and I have been chasing ever since (no response from IT Team as far as I know) and I have asked for it to be escalated - IT are busy, have higher priorities etc etc - when won't they be busy? I think it will still be the same next year and the longer it goes on I think the less chance of being fixed. Spent several hours on updating the tags/captions and I don't know all the images that were impacted (they weren't all Venice ones)! 

 

With Alamy's system often creaking at the seams I often wonder how big (or small) the IT team is and if they are continuously fire fighting major issues mainly related to sales, thus having no time to attend to their snagging list of issues we raise. The only thing we can be assured of we will likely never be informed.

[Harry Harrison]

22 minutes ago, sb photos said:

With Alamy's system often creaking at the seams I often wonder how big (or small) the IT team is and if they are continuously fire fighting major issues mainly related to sales, thus having no time to attend to their snagging list of issues we raise.

Yes, not meaning to put any blame in the direction of the 'IT Team' as this will primarily be a management/staffing decision. I think Mark should offer his services on an ad hoc basis!

[Carolyn Jenkins]

Thank you for the suggestions. I will make the changes to the relevant Venice images, but without help from the IT team I don't think I am going to be able to identify all the other images I made changes to during this period in order to do the same. With the changes to the contract and more emphasis being put on contributors and the metadata it is a shame that when changes are made to the data the system isn't always updated successfully (I know these things can happen) and when evidence provided of a problem with it nothing is done - means images won't appear in searches for the updated tags/caption and wasted time! I guess on the positive side, at least I noticed the problem and can correct some of them, in the absence of Alamy doing anything about it.

 

Thanks for all your help, much appreciated.

[Johnnie5]

You can combine keywords in AIM by dragging and dropping one keyword onto another thereby reducing the total number.

[NYCat]

57 minutes ago, Johnnie5 said:

You can combine keywords in AIM by dragging and dropping one keyword onto another thereby reducing the total number.

 

Thank you. I think I knew that but had forgotten. My oldest images have too many keywords because I used all three categories in the old system. It can be impossible to add new ones. Dragging and combining some might be better than deleting.

 

Paulette

[Allan Bell]

On 18/06/2023 at 12:23, Carolyn Jenkins said:

Arsenale

 

Maybe  Arsenale is another of those banned keywords depending on where it is put. In caption?

 

Allan

 

[wiskerke]

58 minutes ago, Allan Bell said:

 

Maybe  Arsenale is another of those banned keywords depending on where it is put. In caption?

 

Allan

 

Nope. Checked already.

Arse yes and anal ditto.

Arses is fine and there are not many images. Bottom and bottoms is fine too, so you have a whole field lying fallow for you.

(I have not checked demand though.)

 

wim