Size of submissions

[colin seddon]

Hi, I wonder if anyone can answer my query.

 

I have just sent in a submission of 40 images but 5 have been rejected for being too small and not in the 3-5 mb size.

 

I have checked the images and the images are as follows;

 

AAB9502 - 2377 x 2343 - 6.15mb

 

AAB9503 - 2050 x 2377 - 5.54mb

 

DSC0025 - 2691 x 2005 - 7.59mb

 

DSC0025 - 2701 x 2183 - 6.56mb

 

DSC0033 - 2412 x 2000 - 4.82mb. 

 

Can you enlighten me as to how these images are not within the required size please.

 

What am I missing?

 

Regards

 

Colin

[MizBrown]

6 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

 

No The number you see in Photoshop (17.2M) is the number of megabytes (MB) occupied by the uncompressed image in Photoshop. It's is not the same as the number of MegaPixels (MP) in the image. This following shows how the number in Photoshop (MB) is related to the MegaPixels in your image.

 

A 3,000 x 2,000 image contains 6,000,000 pixels (= 6Megapixels or 6MP)

In 8-bit mode, a 6,000,000 pixel image uses three 8-bit bytes for each pixel (one byte each for R, G and B channels) giving 18,000,0000 bytes in total.

1 Megabyte (1MB) is 1,024 x 1,024 bytes = 1,048,576 bytes (binary computer systems use a slightly different definition of Mega).

So, to get the storage occupied by the uncompressed image in MB, divide 18,000,000 by 1,048,576 which gives 17.166MB, which Photoshop displays as 17.2M

 

Note, if working in 16 bit mode, every pixel uses six bytes of storage (two 8-bit bytes each for R, G & B). So in 16 bit mode a 3,000 x 2,000 image will show an uncompressed size in PS of 34.3M

 

Mark

 

Dude, I've been working out how to submit files I shot years ago in another country with a 6.1 MP camera.  These guys have cameras with more MP so either they're reducing the sizes when they export or they're setting the cameras to shoot in a reduced size JPEG.

My cameras were older  -- Nikon D50.  Not all Sony cameras work in 16 bit, either.    A bit of checking found this:  "a6000 only produces 12-bit RAW files."   The a7 only uses Sony's original compressed raw format, so I suspect it's less than 16 bit mode, too.

 

[MizBrown]

On 27/09/2020 at 03:33, colin seddon said:

Hi, I wonder if anyone can answer my query.

 

I have just sent in a submission of 40 images but 5 have been rejected for being too small and not in the 3-5 mb size.

 

I have checked the images and the images are as follows;

 

AAB9502 - 2377 x 2343 - 6.15mb

 

AAB9503 - 2050 x 2377 - 5.54mb

 

DSC0025 - 2691 x 2005 - 7.59mb

 

DSC0025 - 2701 x 2183 - 6.56mb

 

DSC0033 - 2412 x 2000 - 4.82mb. 

 

Can you enlighten me as to how these images are not within the required size please.

 

What am I missing?

 

Regards

 

Colin

 

Check export settings.  Check in camera settings if you're shooting jpeg.  The dimensions in pixels are too small.  Open one of them in Photoshop or in the Alamy file checker that another poster mentions, and tell us what the results of that are.    Good guess is that the Alamy uploader checks dimensions and doesn't allow uploading of files that are too small.  If it's measuring pixel dimensions on the fly, that would explain your results.

Edited October 1, 2020 by MizBrown
more information

[MizBrown]

6 minutes ago, Martin L said:

 

The OP was not asking why or how they were too small,  just why they were rejected when he was getting confused with the limit of uncompressed size and disk size

 

The OP wants either to have a problem fixed or not.   Either his camera shot jpeg files that were too small or he exported them with a reduction in size.  

[MizBrown]

13 minutes ago, Martin L said:

 

The OP was not asking why or how they were too small,  just why they were rejected when he was getting confused with the limit of uncompressed size and disk size

 

The pixel sizes of the photos explain why they were rejected. 

 

[John Mitchell]

Hmmm... Colin, the OP, seems to have disappeared into cyberspace. 🙃

 

 

[AM Chang]

15 hours ago, MizBrown said:

 

From Alamy's Guidelines for Submitting Images:   "File size of over 17MB (when uncompressed/open)
Your JPEG file is likely to have a compressed size of 3-5MB. Opening a JPEG in an image program such as Adobe Photoshop will show you the uncompressed/open file size."

 

My suspicions are that the OP and the person who piggyback on the question had export settings that created smaller sized files (dimensions mentioned in the first post).   When I'm importing to social media, I reduced the size of the photo.  When I'm exporting for Alamy, I don't.   We've gone round and round on this because we don't know how the posters with problems were exporting their .jpegs for Alamy.   Exporting to a phone can shrink things.  Setting smaller long dimensions can shrink things. 

 

Right. In order not to confuse I have updated my post with the "Exported Settings", in case it's still useful. 

 

andre

[M.Chapman]

3 hours ago, MizBrown said:

As Mr. Chapman didn't say, ask questions about what their export setting were.

Yes I did. Here's what I said;

 

If your camera has more than 6MP but you are getting images rejected as being too small, then check the following

1) You (or the camera) are not saving a cropped jpg.

2) The in camera jpg settings are not set to save a smaller (lower resolution) jpg image.

3) If you are shooting in RAW and then exporting jpgs for Alamy, check the export settings aren't downsizing the image too much.

 

3 hours ago, MizBrown said:

Size on the disk is a good gauge for what might or might not export at 17 MB uncompressed.

 

No it isn't. I have compressed jpg files as small as 1MB on disk that meet Alamy's 17MB uncompressed requirement. It all depends on the level of detail in the image.

 

Why do you keep posting confusing or incorrect information in this thread?

 

3 hours ago, MizBrown said:

Open in Photoshop or in the Alamy size checker to be sure.

 

Excellent advice, or if those aren't available check the image has more than 6,000,000 pixels

 

Mark

Edited October 1, 2020 by M.Chapman

[M.Chapman]

3 hours ago, MizBrown said:

My cameras were older  -- Nikon D50.  Not all Sony cameras work in 16 bit, either.    A bit of checking found this:  "a6000 only produces 12-bit RAW files."   The a7 only uses Sony's original compressed raw format, so I suspect it's less than 16 bit mode, too.

 

Photoshop works in 8 or 16 bit mode. Which one is used will depend on your RAW conversion settings. You can choose to work in either, irrespective of the bit depth in the RAW file.

 

Mark

[MizBrown]

4 hours ago, M.Chapman said:

No it isn't. I have compressed jpg files as small as 1MB on disk that meet Alamy's 17MB uncompressed requirement. It all depends on the level of detail in the image.

 

 

Basically if Alamy is measuring pixel size when we upload, then not having minimum width and height would be why some photos get rejected.

 

If the camera doesn't have the data in the file, will a higher bit rate in processing add anything? 

 

 

[MizBrown]

7 hours ago, Ognyan Yosifov said:

I gave you 2 green (on two different posts) just to compensate the red ones.

If the OP doesn't get the 'size" idea I wonder what he(she)'s doing here (or anywhere else) instead of going to the photography nursery to say the

least ...

The OP isn't getting the size idea because a lot of people have gone chasing other issues.   And the OP disappeared which implies that what he really wanted was to hear that this wasn't his fault, but that may be that someone jumped in with the same problem and even more seemed to want to blame it on Alamy. 

 

The dimension size in pixels of the exported files seems to be critical when uploading to Alamy.

 

The first poster was having files that had dimensions less than 3,000 by 2000 pixels rejected.  How he got those dimensions is the question, and without further input from him on his camera settings and export settings, we can't tell him how to fix this.   If he shot in raw, and if the camera had a suitable sized sensor (Micro 4/3rds or bigger), then he probably can rescue the files and resubmit if the problem was his export settings. 

I just opened a medium format photo scanned as a jpeg by a photofinisher in Fairfax County that was smaller than 3,000 by 2,000.   Photoshop shows it as 24.4 M at 16 bit per channel, at 12.2M at 8 bit per channel.    My guess is that Alamy export would knock it out as too small even if I saved and sent at 16 bits per channel.  Setting to 16 bit color in Photoshop made the file look like it will pass but didn't change the dimensions of the photo or, judging from what I just looked at, the quality of it.

 

 

[MizBrown]

On 29/09/2020 at 21:59, Shareece said:

 So. From this and what everyone is saying, my pics should be allowed to upload. Have a brand new camera, and it's saving over the 17MB and it is still saying that it is too small. And I'm obviously not the only one having this issue. 

 

What matters is that the file is 3000 pixels by 2,000 pixels minimum.   Forget most of the rest of what all of us have said and check the dimensions in pixels of your files.
 

You need to answer the questions about how your camera is set up, how your photo processing is set up, and what size your files are in pixels.  Can be determined from Lightroom or File Info in Macs.   I don't do photo processing on my Windows machine, so someone else will have to fill you in on those.

 

Nobody is saying that files that don't meet the size requirements of minimum 3000 by 2000 pixels should be able to be uploaded to Alamy.  

[Harry Harrison]

I think that if there is a lesson to retrieve from this thread it is that pixel dimensions and Alamy's uncompressed file size are directly and precisely mathematically related.

 

Pixel dimensions are represented in MegaPixels (MP) and we should all be familiar with that as this is how sensor sizes are represented also.

 

File size on disk (i.e. the actual size in MB of the jpeg you are uploading) is totally irrelevant to Alamy.

 

 

So, as an example, for a normal 3:2 aspect image from a standard DSLR (as opposed to Micro 4/3 perhaps):

 

3000 x 2000 pixels = 6,000,000 = 6MP

 

This has to be represented as 'bytes' in the stored file for each of the 3 Red, Green & Blue channels, so (3 x 6,000,000) = 18,000,000 bytes.

 

IMB is 1024x1024 bytes

 

So 18,000,000 bytes is ((18,000,000/(1024x1024)) = 17.2MB (i.e. uncompressed file size in Alamy's terms)

 

Alamy do indeed check for the pixel dimensions to ensure that (for all formats) the uncompressed file size as calculated above is over 17MB.

 

In my opinion pixel dimensions (and the easy-to-remember 6MP rule) are far and away the easiest way to work out if your images are of sufficient size.

 

 

[M.Chapman]

4 hours ago, MizBrown said:

I just opened a medium format photo scanned as a jpeg by a photofinisher in Fairfax County that was smaller than 3,000 by 2,000.   Photoshop shows it as 24.4 M at 16 bit per channel, at 12.2M at 8 bit per channel.    My guess is that Alamy export would knock it out as too small even if I saved and sent at 16 bits per channel.  Setting to 16 bit color in Photoshop made the file look like it will pass but didn't change the dimensions of the photo or, judging from what I just looked at, the quality of it.

 

You can't save an image as a 16 bit jpg. Jpg files are only 8 bit. The reason I mentioned the 16 bit issue is as follows; If using PS to process a RAW file, the default mode is 16 bit, in which case the displayed MB values are double what they will be when the file is saved as an 8 bit jpg. Therefore, if cropping or resizing in 16 bit mode, it's important to ensure PS reports the size as over 34MB before saving an 8 bit jpg for Alamy.

 

You're right that the simplest rule of thumb is to ensure the image has over 6,000,000 pixels (as I stated in the first post right at the start of this thread).

 

Alamy's 17MB specification causes lots of confusion. But, for those that know what they are doing, it can be directly compared with Photoshop's display of the uncompressed size making it useful as it saves having to do any calculations when using other crop ratios.

 

Mark

Edited October 2, 2020 by M.Chapman

[M.Chapman]

5 hours ago, MizBrown said:

If the camera doesn't have the data in the file, will a higher bit rate in processing add anything? 

 

So far as I'm aware most cameras produce RAW files with less than 16 bit depth, with 14 and 12 bit being common. If these files are converted/exported into PS as 8 bit then data is being discarded. This will have little noticeable effect on the final 8 bit jpg if no adjustments are made to contrast, levels, brightness, tone, highlights, shadows, colour, colour space etc. in PS. But if any of these adjustments are going to be made it's much better to work in 16 bit mode. If the camera has 12 or 14 bit RAW data, the extra bits available in 16 bit mode will still be used to improve the precision of any adjustments made. Thereby reducing the risk of banding in skies, noise in opened up shadows etc. Conversion to 8 bit should be the final step in the image editing process when the jpg is produced.

 

Mark

Edited October 2, 2020 by M.Chapman

[John Mitchell]

26 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

In my opinion pixel dimensions (and the easy-to-remember 6MP rule) are far and away the easiest way to work out if your images are of sufficient size.

 

 

 

Exactly. Unfortunately, there is a tendency in this brave new digital world of ours to make things unnecessarily complicated.

 

I keep the following pixel resolutions written on a piece of paper next to my computer. They fit my various cameras (past and present) and come in handy as a rough guide to consult when downsizing:

 

6 MP -- 3008 x 2000 pixels (minimum for Alamy)

10 MP -- 3872 x 2592 pixels

12 MP -- 4290 x2800 pixels

16 MP -- 4920 x 3264 pixels

24 MP -- 6048 x 4032 pixels

 

-

 

 

[M.Chapman]

1 hour ago, John Mitchell said:

 

Exactly. Unfortunately, there is a tendency in this brave new digital world of ours to make things unnecessarily complicated.

 

I keep the following pixel resolutions written on a piece of paper next to my computer. They fit my various cameras (past and present) and come in handy as a rough guide to consult when downsizing:

 

6 MP -- 3008 x 2000 pixels (minimum for Alamy)

10 MP -- 3872 x 2592 pixels

12 MP -- 4290 x2800 pixels

16 MP -- 4920 x 3264 pixels

24 MP -- 6048 x 4032 pixels

Or more exactly

6MP      = 3,000  x  2,000 
10MP    = 3,873  x  2,582 
12MP    = 4,243  x  2,829 
16MP    = 4,899  x  3,266 
24MP    = 6,000  x  4,000 
Rounded up to the nearest pixel for a 3:2 crop

 

By my calculations, the minimum pixel dimensions required to meet the 17MB Alamy minimum size limit in various aspect ratios are

 

3:2     2,986  x 1,991 (3,000 x 2,000 is easier to remember)
4:3     2,815  x 2,112 
1:1     2,438  x 2,438 (2,500 x 2,500 is easier to remember)

 

Mark

Edited October 2, 2020 by M.Chapman

[Harry Harrison]

..and just for illustration, the same for a Micro 4/3 crop:

 

6MP      = 2,832  x  2,124
10MP    = 3,651  x  2,739
12MP    = 4,000  x  3,000 
16MP    = 4,619  x  3,464 
24MP    = 5,657  x  4,243

 

 
 

 

Edited October 3, 2020 by Harry Harrison
Should be - 2832 x 2124

[Klinger]

8 hours ago, Harry Harrison said:

..and just for illustration, the same for a Micro 4/3 crop:

 

6MP      = 2,828  x  2,021
10MP    = 3,651  x  2,739
12MP    = 4,000  x  3,000 
16MP    = 4,619  x  3,464 
24MP    = 5,657  x  4,243

 

 
 

 

 

Considering the confusion and some of the attitudes here, I hate to ask, but in what world does 2828 * 2021 = more than 5,715,388 pixels? Which is less than 6MP.

 

Also since the agency has software that reads the size of the image, uploading exactly 3000 x 2000 may get rejected as under 6MP. Try it yourself.  More than safe would be 3072 x 2048 for example, but using a precise 3000 x 2000 may cause a problem. M A Y !

 

I wondered how a simple mistake could end up being two pages, so I fell into the trap. 😀 The OP was multiplying Pixels and getting MB which is impossible. It would be like measuring a jar in inches and deciding the answer was ounces.

 

Real simple answer: upload at least 6 Megapixel images, multiple the width by the height. Ignore and forget about file size on disk, or memory used, which is Megabytes.

 

 

[John Mitchell]

6 minutes ago, Klinger said:

 

Considering the confusion and some of the attitudes here, I hate to ask, but in what world does 2828 * 2021 = more than 5,715,388 pixels? Which is less than 6MP.

 

Also since the agency has software that reads the size of the image, uploading exactly 3000 x 2000 may get rejected as under 6MP. Try it yourself.  More than safe would be 3072 x 2048 for example, but using a precise 3000 x 2000 may cause a problem. M A Y !

 

 

 

 

 

Good idea. When I downsize to minimum file size, which isn't very often, I normally use 3025 pixels (instead of 3000) for the long side in order to ensure a little "wiggle room". This gives an uncompressed file size of approx 17.5 MB. Haven't had any rejection problems yet (touch wood).

[Klinger]

39 minutes ago, John Mitchell said:

 

Good idea. When I downsize to minimum file size, which isn't very often, I normally use 3025 pixels (instead of 3000) for the long side in order to ensure a little "wiggle room". This gives an uncompressed file size of approx 17.5 MB. Haven't had any rejection problems yet (touch wood).

 

I'm not a rocket scientist or Einstein, but after seeing this topic and the confusion that is caused by MP vs MB I sometimes wonder if I've lost my mind. So I looked:

 

A Megapixel is simply a unit of graphic resolution equivalent to one million. Or more precisely 1,048,576 (220) pixels.

 

Aside from the wiggle room, which I think is a great way to avoid problems, there's a real math reason for not making images 6,000,000 by using a calculator. 😎

 

The total should be 6,291,456 Pixels, especially if the computer doing the image pre-check is using exact scientific values.

 

And yes, the other part is that 17MB uncompressed number. Maybe Alamy would someday just decide to use what the rest of the world uses for measuring digital images. MP ?

 

Edited October 2, 2020 by Klinger

[MDM]

49 minutes ago, Klinger said:

 

I'm not a rocket scientist or Einstein, but after seeing this topic and the confusion that is caused by MP vs MB I sometimes wonder if I've lost my mind. So I looked:

 

A Megapixel is simply a unit of graphic resolution equivalent to one million. Or more precisely 1,048,576 (220) pixels.

 

Aside from the wiggle room, which I think is a great way to avoid problems, there's a real math reason for not making images 6,000,000 by using a calculator. 😎

 

The total should be 6,291,456 Pixels, especially if the computer doing the image pre-check is using exact scientific values.

 

And yes, the other part is that 17MB uncompressed number. Maybe Alamy would someday just decide to use what the rest of the world uses for measuring digital images. MP ?

 

 

Actually that is incorrect. You seem to be tying yourself in knots.  Not clear where you got that info but it is definitely wrong. Life is much simpler than that. A megapixel is simply 1,000,000 pixels. 

 

What I think you are getting confused about is the definition of megabytes and that is where things get confusing. In the past a megabyte was defined as 1,048,576 bytes but that has been deprecated in recent years for simplicity and a megabyte is now considered by most to be simply 1,000,000 bytes. They now use the term mebibyte for the older 1,048,576 bytes.

 

See the following Wikipedia links https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megabyte and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel#Megapixel

 

I think Alamy's use of MB comes from advice based around the use of Photoshop which traditionally gave the pixel size of the image in Megabytes in the Image Size dialog. If they would stop using terms like "Uncompressed Image Size" it might help as this term is effectively meaningless for Lightroom users. 

Edited October 2, 2020 by MDM

[Cal]

On 01/10/2020 at 19:34, John Mitchell said:

Hmmm... Colin, the OP, seems to have disappeared into cyberspace. 🙃

 

 

 

I can't say I blame him. It's lovely how people are trying to help, but the thread is headache inducing.

[MDM]

14 minutes ago, Cal said:

 

It's lovely how people are trying to help, but the thread is headache inducing.

 

Fortunately it is not on the compulsory reading list.

 

 

 

[M.Chapman]

3 hours ago, MDM said:

What I think you are getting confused about is the definition of megabytes and that is where things get confusing. In the past a megabyte was defined as 1,048,576 bytes but that has been deprecated in recent years for simplicity and a megabyte is now considered by most to be simply 1,000,000 bytes. They now use the term mebibyte for the older 1,048,576 bytes.

 

However, what's important to this thread is that PS, Alamy and the Alamy size checker app are all using the original definition of a Megabyte, i.e. 1MB = 1,048,576 bytes. Probably another reason why Alamy should change the minimum size to 6MP (6 million pixels) to avoid another source of confusion/ambiguity..

 

Mark

Edited October 2, 2020 by M.Chapman

[M.Chapman]

4 hours ago, Klinger said:

Also since the agency has software that reads the size of the image, uploading exactly 3000 x 2000 may get rejected as under 6MP.

 

6MP images (e.g. 3,000 x 2,000) are accepted by Alamy (I've uploaded lots). So are ones that are slightly smaller

Alamy's size limit is 17MB uncompressed which equates to 5,941,931 pixels.

 

Mark