Meanwhile, over at Shutterstock...

[geogphotos]

10 minutes ago, Olivier Parent said:

 

And if you are not happy with Shutterstock, maybe you can just close your account there…

 

Indeed. 

 

I never opened mine!

[george]

5 minutes ago, Autumn Sky said:

 

 

I'll post tomorrow link to a port of awesome photographer, made over 50k on SS alone.

I think that Alamy have been very good to allow this thread, but I do not think that posting a link to the portfolio of someone else who is supplying SS is appropriate here, or any portfolio linked to a competitors site for that matter. 

[Jon Rosenthal]

On 31/05/2020 at 12:14, Michael Ventura said:

 

Agreed. Many of my sales are of photos older than a year (sometimes 10-15 years old) and are first time sellers.

So do I. Some of my better sales (high $$) have been to books etc of quite rare subjects that will not sell every year, but that also can't be found elsewhere.

[meanderingemu]

2 hours ago, geogphotos said:

 

Indeed. 

 

I never opened mine!

so open one and close it, to show you are not happy with SS. as that was the only option provided 😁

[formerly snappyoncalifornia]

When the microstock business started most of the comments I heard at the time from stock shooters was alarm that the flood of "vanity" photographers would decimate the livelihood of "real" photographers for a giggle. I pleaded to all that would listen to not contribute to microstock, it would dilute our value and drive prices down. We all knew this was true, yet many contributors chose to submit their images to micro sites anyway, thinking their choice wouldn't matter much in the bigger picture. Well here we are, caught in this endless spiral of downward pricing dictated by supply and demand. Now, the chickens are coming home to roost. I'm proud that I stuck to my guns, I've never contributed to a micro, but pride doesn't pay the bills. Yeah, I'm angry.

[Brasilnut]

In protest, I've deactivated my port on there (10,000 images and 1,000 clips) for a week, along with hundreds of other contributors.

 

The recent cuts at SS make the 20% cut at Alamy last year look like child's play, especially when it comes to videos. 

 

[geogphotos]

7 hours ago, Brasilnut said:

In protest, I've deactivated my port on there (10,000 images and 1,000 clips) for a week, along with hundreds of other contributors.

 

The recent cuts at SS make the 20% cut at Alamy last year look like child's play, especially when it comes to videos. 

 

 

 

For a week?

 

That'll show 'em who's boss 🙃

[losdemas]

12 hours ago, Brasilnut said:

In protest, I've deactivated my port on there (10,000 images and 1,000 clips) for a week, along with hundreds of other contributors.

 

The recent cuts at SS make the 20% cut at Alamy last year look like child's play, especially when it comes to videos.

 

Deactivated? For a week? And you think that that will make the slightest bit of difference? I would guess that the majority who have joined you in this protest are doing the same. If it has any effect on those in charge at SS (doubtful), then they may return with a miserly better offer, along with a plea to 'wait and see' what the outcome is after a year. They will also plead poverty and ask the contributors to consider the state of the market and the current economic situation worldwide, distracting from the benefits of those at the top and shareholders.  My bet is that the majority of contributors will continue to do what most MS contributors have always done: put their eggs in as many baskets as possible and leave them there, regardless of return. Which is exactly what SS are counting on.

[Brasilnut]

38 minutes ago, losdemas said:

 

Deactivated? For a week? And you think that that will make the slightest bit of difference? I would guess that the majority who have joined you in this protest are doing the same. If it has any effect on those in charge at SS (doubtful), then they may return with a miserly better offer, along with a plea to 'wait and see' what the outcome is after a year. They will also plead poverty and ask the contributors to consider the state of the market and the current economic situation worldwide, distracting from the benefits of those at the top and shareholders.  My bet is that the majority of contributors will continue to do what most MS contributors have always done: put their eggs in as many baskets as possible and leave them there, regardless of return. Which is exactly what SS are counting on.

 

It's a coordinated effort, not just deactivations. It's getting media attention traction, contacting buyers on social media and asking them to shop elsewhere (such as Alamy), even encouraging investors to short the SS stock (I would but unfortunately my broker doesn't have their ticket). Together with a complete upload boycott. 

 

Some huge ports from Russian are joining in and we should be able to have 5-10million files deactivated this week. 5-10 million out of 330 million may not seem much but consider that these are the top-tier images and videos. Already seeing some impact (and I can imagine that the new images uploaded are 95% junk), curious to see what the numbers will be on June 16.

 

June 1 - 326.401.446 images, 1.146.506 new images per week
June 4 - 325.718.566 images, 1.157.726 new images per week
June 6 - 325.167.887 images, 1.123.492 new images per week
June 8 - 324.236.117 images, 1.062.475 new images per week
June 11- 324.111.510 images, 1.031.537 new images per week
June 15- 324.009.728 images, 993.927 new images per week

We're planning a month-long shutdown in January when all earning levels go back to 1, so this is just the start. 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Brasilnut

[geogphotos]

49 minutes ago, Brasilnut said:

 

It's a coordinated effort, not just deactivations. It's getting media attention traction, contacting buyers on social media and asking them to shop elsewhere (such as Alamy), even encouraging investors to short the SS stock (I would but unfortunately my broker doesn't have their ticket). Together with a complete upload boycott. 

 

Some huge ports from Russian are joining in and we should be able to have 5-10million files deactivated this week. 5-10 million out of 330 million may not seem much but consider that these are the top-tier images and videos. Already seeing some impact (and I can imagine that the new images uploaded are 95% junk), curious to see what the numbers will be on June 16.

 

J

 

 

Are these the same Russians that we were told earlier in this thread would be the major winners - the ones that SS wants to encourage through this commission change? 

 

So it would seem that everybody is unhappy. 

 

I wish you all well in your protest.

Edited June 15, 2020 by geogphotos

[Brasilnut]

35 minutes ago, Olivier Parent said:

For me, deactivating the images for a week, or even a month, is just telling them how much you have absolutely no intention of leaving them, nothing more... When you really mean to slam the door, you take your stuff with you.

 

That all sounds noble but when 40% of one's monthly income, on average, derives from that specific agency it's not practical.

 

I've left plenty of agencies in my time due to them suddenly changing goal posts but earnings there were poor.   

[Brasilnut]

59 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

 

 

Are these the same ones that we were told earlier would be the major winners and same ones that SS wanted to encourage through this commission change? 

 

Not sure, lately SS has been promoting heavily in India. 

 

Cost of living is lower in many parts of the world and surely some contributors will take 10cent subs as "better than nothing". However, the quality of work coming out of some of those contributors is pathetic...and this is evident with any search for "new" for pretty much anything. 

[losdemas]

1 hour ago, Brasilnut said:

 

It's a coordinated effort, not just deactivations. It's getting media attention traction, contacting buyers on social media and asking them to shop elsewhere (such as Alamy), even encouraging investors to short the SS stock (I would but unfortunately my broker doesn't have their ticket). Together with a complete upload boycott. 

 

Some huge ports from Russian are joining in and we should be able to have 5-10million files deactivated this week. 5-10 million out of 330 million may not seem much but consider that these are the top-tier images and videos. Already seeing some impact (and I can imagine that the new images uploaded are 95% junk), curious to see what the numbers will be on June 16.

 

June 1 - 326.401.446 images, 1.146.506 new images per week
June 4 - 325.718.566 images, 1.157.726 new images per week
June 6 - 325.167.887 images, 1.123.492 new images per week
June 8 - 324.236.117 images, 1.062.475 new images per week
June 11- 324.111.510 images, 1.031.537 new images per week
June 15- 324.009.728 images, 993.927 new images per week

We're planning a month-long shutdown in January when all earning levels go back to 1, so this is just the start. 

 

Sorry, I can't help but be a natural cynic: I look at those enormous figures and see (relatively speaking) virtually no difference.  And MS contributors asking buyers on social media to buy elsewhere (as I note that you have done)?  That's not only hugely ironic, but more than a bit rich. So you expect those buyers to run to your aid, now that you're in trouble, do you? Won't happen. And then, once you change your (collective) minds and reactivate your photos, you'll want them to all come flooding back?! They're not licensing photos as a personal support service, they will do what's in their interests - exactly what you're doing now - acting in your interests (I'm not saying that I blame you, BTW). Don't count on buyers to help you out. Ditto shareholders, they know what SS know: this a just a short-term blip and contributors will be back once they've had a little rant. And/or new sheep will be brought into the fold.

 

TBH, if SS were to suffer to any degree, all that would happen would be that a lot of  those contributors would move their content to Adobe (and now that DT have changed a little, there too). Then what happens when they change their policy? Move back again?  Probably.

 

Anyhow, I wish you and all creatives over there and other similar places well. That's me done on the subject.

[meanderingemu]

34 minutes ago, losdemas said:

 

Sorry, I can't help but be a natural cynic: I look at those enormous figures and see (relatively speaking) virtually no difference.  And MS contributors asking buyers on social media to buy elsewhere (as I note that you have done)?  That's not only hugely ironic, but more than a bit rich. So you expect those buyers to run to your aid, now that you're in trouble, do you? Won't happen. And then, once you change your (collective) minds and reactivate your photos, you'll want them to all come flooding back?! They're not licensing photos as a personal support service, they will do what's in their interests - exactly what you're doing now - acting in your interests (I'm not saying that I blame you, BTW). Don't count on buyers to help you out. Ditto shareholders, they know what SS know: this a just a short-term blip and contributors will be back once they've had a little rant. And/or new sheep will be brought into the fold.

 

TBH, if SS were to suffer to any degree, all that would happen would be that a lot of  those contributors would move their content to Adobe (and now that DT have changed a little, there too). Then what happens when they change their policy? Move back again?  Probably.

 

Anyhow, I wish you and all creatives over there and other similar places well. That's me done on the subject.

 

 

one of the biggest irony I saw after the announcement were people taking revenge by uploading to totally random sites, regardless of revenue, including one infamous for having brought licensing prices to the decimal of pennies.    

 

[CarloBo]

Always nice to read the old Alamy grumpies bullying at those doing MS...

[meanderingemu]

4 minutes ago, CarloBo said:

Always nice to read the old Alamy grumpies bullying at those doing MS...

 

weird definition of bullying. Not wanting to partake is not bullying.  Being realistic that MS has dragged down prices of photo in general is not bullying.  Question the good of a one week boycott is not bullying.  

 

and i do have images in MS, and i have never felt bullied by people who disagree with it.   

[noelbennett]

The point is Brasilnut is making an effort. He is making a protest. it seems to me that his effort is being met with a great deal of cynicism.  If you have nothing positive to say , it would be better to say nothing.

[geogphotos]

3 minutes ago, noelbennett said:

The point is Brasilnut is making an effort. He is making a protest. it seems to me that his effort is being met with a great deal of cynicism.  If you have nothing positive to say , it would be better to say nothing.

 

 

Why aren't we allowed to say what we want and what we believe to be true?

Edited June 15, 2020 by geogphotos

[meanderingemu]

39 minutes ago, noelbennett said:

The point is Brasilnut is making an effort. He is making a protest. it seems to me that his effort is being met with a great deal of cynicism.  If you have nothing positive to say , it would be better to say nothing.

what positive thing did Brasilnut say about Shutterstock .

 

not sure i understand your argument.  also glad you consider calling something "cynicism " as positive 

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by meanderingemu

[meanderingemu]

deleted, not worth my time

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by meanderingemu

[BobD]

Here's what I think will happen.

 

Shutterstock will announce that they are dropping the reset in January in favour of a rolling 12 month level.

Everyone will celebrate a major concession from shutterstock forgetting they will still only get 10c for the majority of sales.

It won't make much difference to shutterstock as even the level 5 and 6 contributors are getting 10-17c for most sales.

 

Unfortunately the inability of photographers to stick together and take determined action when something like this happens will only lead to it happening again some time in the future.

 

They must be laughing at the attempts of the contributors, I reckon they have dropped 9 million images since it started, that will be hardly missed.  

 

 

[geogphotos]

12 minutes ago, BobD said:

 

 

Unfortunately the inability of photographers to stick together and take determined action when something like this happens will only lead to it happening again some time in the future.

 

They must be laughing at the attempts of the contributors, I reckon they have dropped 9 million images since it started, that will be hardly missed.  

 

 

 

 

Bob, If photographers had stuck together micro-stock would not exist in the way that it does. As has been said already those supporting micro stock have already made the decision to undermine and reduce the income of other photographers so it is more than a little ironic when it comes to a plea for solidarity over Shutterstock.

 

Alamy exists so tell all those disgruntled SS contributors to give it a try here and turn their back on being exploited by SS. 

Edited June 15, 2020 by geogphotos

[Steve F]

12 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

 

 

Bob, If photographers had stuck together micro-stock would not exist in the way that it does. As has been said already those supporting micro stock have already made the decision to undermine and reduce the income of other photographers so it is more than a little ironic when it comes to a plea for solidarity over Shutterstock.

 

Alamy exists so tell all those disgruntled SS contributors to give it a try here and turn their back on being exploited by SS. 

 

Experienced photographers are another story... but I'm wondering if a lot of people new to stock and on SS have any idea about the industry or how it used to work in terms of pricing and commission. They just see it's one of the biggest agencies and sign up. Microstock will be the new normal for people starting out in stock photography. And there's probably so many hobbyists/enthusiasts and the fact stock photography is online so worldwide means photographers will likely never get organised unfortunately. Difficult to see a way out of it to be honest, unless you're a specialist agency....

Edited June 15, 2020 by Steve F

[geogphotos]

49 minutes ago, Steve F said:

 

Experienced photographers are another story... but I'm wondering if a lot of people new to stock and on SS have any idea about the industry or how it used to work in terms of pricing and commission. They just see it's one of the biggest agencies and sign up. Microstock will be the new normal for people starting out in stock photography. And there's probably so many hobbyists/enthusiasts and the fact stock photography is online so worldwide means photographers will likely never get organised unfortunately. Difficult to see a way out of it to be honest, unless you're a specialist agency....

 

 

I am talking about the early 2000s when there was at least a possibility that photographers could turn away from micro stock rather than allow themselves to persuade themselves that it was a bandwagon worth jumping on. 

 

But now as you say when you approach Google searching for ways to sell your photos, or for information about stock photography, you will be directed straight away to the prominent micro-stock agencies. Yes, microstock now dominates the stock photography market in terms of numbers of contributors, number of images, and turnover. 

 

Also, what is self-evident is that the business model, at least from the viewpoint of the photographer is completely unsustainable. And only sustainable for the agency by taking an ever larger share from its contributors.

Edited June 15, 2020 by geogphotos

[Brasilnut]

5 hours ago, Olivier Parent said:

 

Sorry, I can't help but be a natural cynic either… By contributing to microstock websites, you actively participated in the "better than nothing" system which considerably harmed the economy of photography as a professional activity, to the detriment of the photographers who depended on it for a living. Now you are complaining that your income may drop because people in India may take 10 cent subs (instead of your formerly 30 cent subs) as "better than nothing"? Isn't that also hugely ironic?

 

This "better than nothing" system is hugely more profitable than all the alternatives, including Alamy: (in fact almost 4x as profitable with 90% duplicated images)

 

My earnings at SS in 2019:

Port size at Dec 2019 aprox: 10,000

Total images sold: 5755

Total net earnings: $3,916

Average Return Per download: $0.68

 

My earnings at Alamy in 2019:

Port size at Dec 2019 aprox: 10,800

Total images sold: 103

Total net earnings: $1,140

Average Return per download: $11.06

 

The above results are consistent with many other contributors who upload to the same agencies.