geogphotos Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 (edited) Clive Marshall Chief Executive Press Association Or PA Media as they are now called. Edited April 15, 2020 by geogphotos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meanderingemu Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 6 minutes ago, geogphotos said: + 1 One problem now is we used to be able to address concerns to James West as CEO and he would answer and often reconsider. Who do we address our concern to now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Harrison Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 36 minutes ago, geogphotos said: I can't download the data spreadsheet because that isn't working! A small crumb but Alamy seem to have been able to fix that easily on a case by case basis, just need to email them, and they can also at the same time send you the csv just as they used to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaniMarkus Hasa Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 Wonder which of these can and can't be sold as exclusive... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, JaniMarkus Hasa said: Wonder which of these can and can't be sold as exclusive... Yes. It's a hand-grenade under everyone's collection waiting for Alamy to pull the pin. There's a tremendous amount of goodwill from contributors which A seems determined to play fast and loose with. Edited April 15, 2020 by spacecadet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geogphotos Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 1 minute ago, spacecadet said: Yes. It's a hand-grenade under everyone's collection waiting for Alamy to pull the pin. There's a tremendous amount of goodwill from contributors which A seems determined to play fast and loose with. And they can just make their mind up about it when you have had a sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meanderingemu Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, JaniMarkus Hasa said: Wonder which of these can and can't be sold as exclusive... until they sell, you are fine as exclusive, after, Alamy will figure if it's worth calling them artwork to get 20% of your commission back (or cancel your account and take all of it) Edited April 15, 2020 by meanderingemu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meanderingemu Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, geogphotos said: And they can just make their mind up about it when you have had a sale. and if we guess wrong we can only lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaniMarkus Hasa Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, meanderingemu said: until they sell, you are fine as exclusive Guess I'm safe then. 😀 Edited April 15, 2020 by JaniMarkus Hasa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geogphotos Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 Exclusive? Non-exclusive? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, geogphotos said: Exclusive? Non-exclusive? Common-sense says exclusive. But who knows until we get a proper answer. A proper answer. Not one that just suits Alamy. And, if images such as that are "deemed" non-exclusive, the reason. Edited April 15, 2020 by spacecadet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Robinson Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, geogphotos said: Exclusive? Non-exclusive? This is the problem. If I'd seen that I'd like to think I'd have shot it in pretty much the same way, resulting in a very similar image. What's the difference between that and a window? Or an Art Nouveau lamppost? Or a decorative park bench? We need CLEAR guidance. Edited April 15, 2020 by Phil Robinson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meanderingemu Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 exclusive or non-exclusive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Ramsay Posted April 15, 2020 Author Share Posted April 15, 2020 Under the Copyright Act, as I understand it, copyright of a sculpture or other three-dimensional artwork is not infringed by making a (necessarily) two-dimensional photograph of it. This would surely apply to geogphotos' pew-end above, and should also apply to stained glass, in my opinion Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Alex Ramsay said: Under the Copyright Act, as I understand it, copyright of a sculpture or other three-dimensional artwork is not infringed by making a (necessarily) two-dimensional photograph of it. This would surely apply to geogphotos' pew-end above, and should also apply to stained glass, in my opinion Alex Yes but Alamy's definition goes far wider than our CDPA. The CDPA doesn't use the word "artwork"- it uses "artistic work", which is much wider. If this is Alamy's basis for its definition, we've even had buildings. I can't believe they'll go that far. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meanderingemu Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 Just now, Alex Ramsay said: Under the Copyright Act, as I understand it, copyright of a sculpture or other three-dimensional artwork is not infringed by making a (necessarily) two-dimensional photograph of it. This would surely apply to geogphotos' pew-end above, and should also apply to stained glass, in my opinion Alex nowhere does Alamy refer to this in the guidelines. Rule 2.7 only states The Contributor acknowledges and accepts that Images of artworks, or that are notprotected by copyright, or that are in the public domain or for which copyright ownership is unknown must never be marked as “Only available on Alamy” . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Robinson Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Alex Ramsay said: Under the Copyright Act, as I understand it, copyright of a sculpture or other three-dimensional artwork is not infringed by making a (necessarily) two-dimensional photograph of it. This would surely apply to geogphotos' pew-end above, and should also apply to stained glass, in my opinion Alex I think this a separate issue from copyright. This is about whether Alamy think they can tell their customers that this is only only place they can find a particular image. If a customer is looking for an accurate copy of the Mona Lisa or the Sgt Pepper album sleeve, that would clearly not be the case. This is about whether or not it is possible to photograph the same thing in a different way, or better, than someone else. But more than that it's about clarity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Ramsay Posted April 15, 2020 Author Share Posted April 15, 2020 1 minute ago, meanderingemu said: nowhere does Alamy refer to this in the guidelines. Rule 2.7 only states The Contributor acknowledges and accepts that Images of artworks, or that are notprotected by copyright, or that are in the public domain or for which copyright ownership is unknown must never be marked as “Only available on Alamy” . So we're back to the question of 'what defines an artwork' in Alamy's view, then. Can we hope for an answer? Alex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meanderingemu Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, spacecadet said: Yes but Alamy's definition goes far wider than our CDPA. The CDPA doesn't use the word "artwork"- it uses "artistic work", which is much wider. If this is Alamy's basis for its definition, we've even had buildings. I can't believe they'll go that far. in addition CDPA is for UK, what about my stainglass in Mexico? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meanderingemu Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Alex Ramsay said: So we're back to the question of 'what defines an artwork' in Alamy's view, then. Can we hope for an answer? Alex the answer seems clear today, wherever they feel they can claw back 20% of the commission retro-actively Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 1 minute ago, meanderingemu said: in addition CDPA is for UK, what about my stainglass in Mexico? Our CPDA isn't really relevant to the contract. We merely mention it because we're trying to understand Alamy's new criteria by reference to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, meanderingemu said: the answer seems clear today, wherever they feel they can claw back 20% of the commission retro-actively I'm sure it's not capricious. But it's doing a fair job of looking like it- set a trap the rules for avoiding which are unclear then retrospectively charge a profitable penalty (because Alamy is paid for the licence before it claws back the commission) when it's triggered. Edited April 15, 2020 by spacecadet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geogphotos Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 This was on my list. It is a small part of large mural. To be fair there are also others where I made a mistake ie) public domain images. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Robinson Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 I've received a list of some images which have been included. Many are stamps - not what I'd call 'artworks' but I can understand that. Also graffiti - less convinced about some, but OK. Also tiled pictures on the Paris Metro and mosaics. And, yes, stained glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Phil Robinson said: I've received a list of some images which have been included. Many are stamps - not what I'd call 'artworks' but I can understand that. Also graffiti - less convinced about some, but OK. Also tiled pictures on the Paris Metro and mosaics. And, yes, stained glass. Crikey. Hadn't occurred to me. Only a matter of time then. This is nothing more than a money-making exercise. As I said before, great timing, Alamy. I could really do with losing another 20% of my income right now. Edited April 15, 2020 by spacecadet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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