Skin tones in closeup pictures

[Steve F]

Hi guys,

I've just been doing some closeup pictures of my hand scooping a bunch of jellybeans out of a bowl. The lighting was a mixture of natural lighting (as much as you get at this time of year) and some incandescent yellow. I've edited the pictures in Lightroom. The background, jellybeans and everything look fine. My skin tones look really pink/magenta though - whereas, looking at my hands, they're more towards yellow/orange. I've tried adjusting the temp. and tint sliders, but no success, I am basically magenta coloured!!! I worked on the raw files, images were taken with Sony A7iii.

 

Sorry, I can't show the pictures yet, I'm uploading them now to QC.

 

Has anyone else experienced problems with skin tones in closeup pictures?

 

Steve

Edited November 11, 2019 by Steve F

[Betty LaRue]

Do you use LR CC? I think you can select your hands and adjust only those.

[Steve F]

4 minutes ago, Betty LaRue said:

Do you use LR CC? I think you can select your hands and adjust only those.

 

I use Lightroom Classic. Adjust with a graduated filter and a range mask Betty?

Edited November 11, 2019 by Steve F

[Betty LaRue]

Just now, Steve F said:

I use Lightroom Classic. Adjust with a graduated filter Betty?

I really don’t know because I haven’t tried it. I think if you’ll look at the link somewhere in a thread about the new LR features, something is said about that. 
Steve, what I’ve personally done in the past is in Photoshop. Make a layer. Change the color temperature or color balance until I get what I want in the area I want to correct. Then take a large brush using black and brush out the change on the whole picture. Then take a smaller brush size in white to brush back your change to your hands only. You might want to set opacity to 25-30% and go over your hands until you are happy with the results. Flatten the layer.
I’m sure people who do these kinds of adjustments in LR (I don’t) can tell you a much simpler way than I. Barring that, my method will work.

Betty

[MDM]

It depends on how magenta you are. I prefer to do any colour adjustments like this on the raw file - hence Lightroom - as there is a lot more flexibility in terms of colour than on the processed image in Photoshop. 

 

I often reduce ruddiness in white facial skin tones either by making global adjustments in the HSL box in Lightroom by reducing red and maybe magenta saturation or using a local radial filter on the face and reducing saturation (can't do individual colours locally) or adjusting white balance. The global adjustments are stronger in effect than the local adjustments but will affect the whole image. First thing is to decide what white balance you want to use for the main part of the image - mixed lighting can be a pain. 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by MDM

[Allan Bell]

It is possible to alter parts of the image using the adjustment brush in LR.

 

Allan

 

[MDM]

1 hour ago, Allan Bell said:

It is possible to alter parts of the image using the adjustment brush in LR.

 

Allan

 

 

Yes that is what it is for - local adjustments. However, I prefer the radial filter (heavily feathered and inverted) for doing local adjustments to faces and heads as it is the perfect shape for that purpose (elliptical including circular) and it is very easy to sychronise across a group of related images. It may be in the wrong place in the other images but it can be easily moved into place and minor adjustments made of necessary - similarly with the grad filter but the shape is generally not right for faces. The adjustment brush is freehand - no great reason not to use it but I just prefer the radial filter. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by MDM

[Betty LaRue]

I’ve always found it simpler in PS, but I do realize that’s what I used for so long.  I’m familiar with it. It’s all I had for years, so I had to spend the time to figure out how to make it work. I’ve always seemed to struggle a bit with those LR adjustments above and beyond the sliders. For those who LR comes easy, realize it doesn’t necessarily come easy to everyone. I’m a late comer to LR compared to most of you.
If I didn’t have PS, and only LR, I would master it. But when faced with a few hours of developing images, I go to what I know, and is fast for me, rather than spend an hour messing up an image in LR trying to get it right.

I do love LR for what I do do with it, and wouldn’t want to not have it.

😜 Comes down to different strokes, I guess!

Betty

[MDM]

1 hour ago, Betty LaRue said:

I’ve always found it simpler in PS, but I do realize that’s what I used for so long.  I’m familiar with it. It’s all I had for years, so I had to spend the time to figure out how to make it work. I’ve always seemed to struggle a bit with those LR adjustments above and beyond the sliders. For those who LR comes easy, realize it doesn’t necessarily come easy to everyone. I’m a late comer to LR compared to most of you.
If I didn’t have PS, and only LR, I would master it. But when faced with a few hours of developing images, I go to what I know, and is fast for me, rather than spend an hour messing up an image in LR trying to get it right.

I do love LR for what I do do with it, and wouldn’t want to not have it.

😜 Comes down to different strokes, I guess!

Betty

 

My philosphy is to do as much on the raw file as possible especially anything to do with colour, noise management, sharpening as well as highlight and shadow detail. This is because the results are oftern far better than working on a converted file in Photoshop. I still use Photoshop a lot for removal of spots, any retouching and anything complex like making exact selections or masks. However, a lot of what I used to do in Photoshop  I now do in Lightroom because, not only is it often better in terms of quality of results to work on the raw file, it is also often more efficient in terms of time taken.

 

When I say Lightroom I could equally say ACR (Adobe Camera Raw) which is directly integrated with Photoshop but the layout of Lightroom is actually far more intuitive and easier to work with I find. A simple example is how easy it is to say put a grad filter in the same position a whole set of images with one action and then make minor modifications. Doing the same on individual files in Photoshop would likely take much longer. 

 

So yes it is different strokes literally but there is always the question of how much one might stick with the familiar rather than try the new. Far be it from me to attempt to convince you to change though. I wouldn't dream of it 😁. 

[Betty LaRue]

3 hours ago, MDM said:

 

My philosphy is to do as much on the raw file as possible especially anything to do with colour, noise management, sharpening as well as highlight and shadow detail. This is because the results are oftern far better than working on a converted file in Photoshop. I still use Photoshop a lot for removal of spots, any retouching and anything complex like making exact selections or masks. However, a lot of what I used to do in Photoshop  I now do in Lightroom because, not only is it often better in terms of quality of results to work on the raw file, it is also often more efficient in terms of time taken.

 

When I say Lightroom I could equally say ACR (Adobe Camera Raw) which is directly integrated with Photoshop but the layout of Lightroom is actually far more intuitive and easier to work with I find. A simple example is how easy it is to say put a grad filter in the same position a whole set of images with one action and then make minor modifications. Doing the same on individual files in Photoshop would likely take much longer. 

 

So yes it is different strokes literally but there is always the question of how much one might stick with the familiar rather than try the new. Far be it from me to attempt to convince you to change though. I wouldn't dream of it 😁. 

Well, Michael, I see you’ve finally quit beating your head against the brick wall of Betty! 😉😁 Love your sense of humor.

BTW, I do all of those adjustments in your first two lines in LR also. I use all of the sliders. Wouldn’t have it any other way.  I just don’t use the radial filter and any other local adjustments.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Betty LaRue

[MDM]

22 minutes ago, Betty LaRue said:

Well, Michael, I see you’ve finally quit beating your head against the brick wall of Betty! 😉😁 Love your sense of humor.

BTW, I do all of those adjustments in your first two lines in LR also. I use all of the sliders. Wouldn’t have it any other way.  I just don’t use the radial filter and any other local adjustments.

 

Finally - I gave up years ago Betty 🤣. it is a particular trait of mine that I will never attempt the impossible or even the highly unlikely. I remember some time back trying to persuade you to use Lightroom for more than converting raw images and take advantage of its data management features but you were unwilling to take the leap. I noted then that you are not easily persuaded and it seems that has not changed. So I am not trying to convince you now either, just explaining how I do things and why.

 

As for the radial filter, well all it does is restrict those sliders to a circle or ellipse, nothing more. But whatever you do, don't touch it. 

[Betty LaRue]

1 hour ago, MDM said:

 

Finally - I gave up years ago Betty 🤣. it is a particular trait of mine that I will never attempt the impossible or even the highly unlikely. I remember some time back trying to persuade you to use Lightroom for more than converting raw images and take advantage of its data management features but you were unwilling to take the leap. I noted then that you are not easily persuaded and it seems that has not changed. So I am not trying to convince you now either, just explaining how I do things and why.

 

As for the radial filter, well all it does is restrict those sliders to a circle or ellipse, nothing more. But whatever you do, don't touch it. 

I promise you, Michael, I will not touch it!  My fingers would probably fall off.  Although, your telling me not to touch it makes me want to touch it. Contrary gal that I am.

[Steve F]

Thanks guys. I've had a go with the adjustment brush and 'pick a colour, any colour'. Reduced the transparency of the brush. Garish skin tones. Ggggrrr... This is why I always try to get the shot right at the time! I'll have a go at reshooting in different light and if I still look pink, so be it!!

Steve

[MDM]

5 hours ago, Steve F said:

Thanks guys. I've had a go with the adjustment brush and 'pick a colour, any colour'. Reduced the transparency of the brush. Garish skin tones. Ggggrrr... This is why I always try to get the shot right at the time! I'll have a go at reshooting in different light and if I still look pink, so be it!!

Steve

 

Noooo. Don't paint colours onto it. That would look horrendous. If using the adjustment brush just use the WB control at the top to get the skin colour into the right ball park by reducing the magenta (Tint control) and maybe adding Yellow (Temperature control) if it is red rather than magenta (can be difficult to tell the difference). Also use the Saturation control in the adjustment brush to desaturate the skin a little. 

 

Basically what I am getting at is that it is possible to adjust skin tones locally and leave the rest of the image alone. So, for example, you might have a very colourful image where you want to retain the colour and saturation but you want to make skin tones look more natural. Mixed lighting is probably more difficult as it can be impossible to balance properly. If you would like to post a raw file on Dropbox I will have a look at it. It is impossible to suggest anything really without seeing an image. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by MDM

[MDM]

5 hours ago, Betty LaRue said:

I promise you, Michael, I will not touch it!  My fingers would probably fall off.  Although, your telling me not to touch it makes me want to touch it. Contrary gal that I am.

 

Forbidden fruit and all that 🤣

[Alex Ramsay]

19 hours ago, Steve F said:

Hi guys,

I've just been doing some closeup pictures of my hand scooping a bunch of jellybeans out of a bowl. The lighting was a mixture of natural lighting (as much as you get at this time of year) and some incandescent yellow. I've edited the pictures in Lightroom. The background, jellybeans and everything look fine. My skin tones look really pink/magenta though - whereas, looking at my hands, they're more towards yellow/orange. I've tried adjusting the temp. and tint sliders, but no success, I am basically magenta coloured!!! I worked on the raw files, images were taken with Sony A7iii.

 

Sorry, I can't show the pictures yet, I'm uploading them now to QC.

 

Has anyone else experienced problems with skin tones in closeup pictures?

 

Steve

 

Perhaps you could use a grey card next time you shoot a subject like this?

 

Alex

[MDM]

42 minutes ago, Alex Ramsay said:

 

Perhaps you could use a grey card next time you shoot a subject like this?

 

Alex

 

The mixed lighting will still be problematic - which light source to set as neutral? It is impossible to get both neutral except by local adjustments. But then why use mixed lighting at all if you want everything to look neutral? 

[spacecadet]

20 hours ago, Steve F said:

 

Sorry, I can't show the pictures yet, I'm uploading them now to QC.

 

 

You probably already know this but you can post images before they pass- just right click on the image in AIM and copy and paste image location.

[Allan Bell]

40 minutes ago, spacecadet said:

You probably already know this but you can post images before they pass- just right click on the image in AIM and copy and paste image location.

 

I didn't know that!

 

Thanks. We are all learning a little each day.😃

 

Allan

 

[Allan Bell]

17 hours ago, MDM said:

 

Yes that is what it is for - local adjustments. However, I prefer the radial filter (heavily feathered and inverted) for doing local adjustments to faces and heads as it is the perfect shape for that purpose (elliptical including circular) and it is very easy to sychronise across a group of related images. It may be in the wrong place in the other images but it can be easily moved into place and minor adjustments made of necessary - similarly with the grad filter but the shape is generally not right for faces. The adjustment brush is freehand - no great reason not to use it but I just prefer the radial filter. 

 

When I mentioned the Adjustment brush I was thinking of OP with handful of jellybeans as it is usefull to get into small corners as well as larger areas.

 

Steve now just needs to practice with it.🤣

 

Allan

 

[Steve F]

3 hours ago, MDM said:

 

Noooo. Don't paint colours onto it. That would look horrendous. If using the adjustment brush just use the WB control at the top to get the skin colour into the right ball park by reducing the magenta (Tint control) and maybe adding Yellow (Temperature control) if it is red rather than magenta (can be difficult to tell the difference). Also use the Saturation control in the adjustment brush to desaturate the skin a little. 

 

 

You were quire right, it did look horrendous! Hmmmm... Maybe I should learn to use those bits of Lightroom I don't normally use...!! Thanks, I'll try this.

 

55 minutes ago, spacecadet said:

You probably already know this but you can post images before they pass- just right click on the image in AIM and copy and paste image location.

 

I didn't know this! Here they are:

 

 

 

 

[spacecadet]

On my monitor that's a reasonable colour for skin particularly if it's a bit chilly.

I'd probably do an eyedropper on the rim of the tub and leave it at that.

Edit: when I try that in LR it goes a little towards yellow on the WB and green on the tint. You might prefer it.

The camera is normally very good on auto WB, but eyedropper on a white midtone is my go-to for images I don't like the colour balance of. But as MDM says mixed lighting is often a bit of a drag.

Edited November 12, 2019 by spacecadet

[Steve F]

1 hour ago, Allan Bell said:

 

When I mentioned the Adjustment brush I was thinking of OP with handful of jellybeans as it is usefull to get into small corners as well as larger areas.

 

Steve now just needs to practice with it.🤣

 

 

Thanks Allan!

[Steve F]

56 minutes ago, spacecadet said:

On my monitor that's a reasonable colour for skin particularly if it's a bit chilly.

I'd probably do an eyedropper on the rim of the tub and leave it at that.

Edit: when I try that in LR it goes a little towards yellow on the WB and green on the tint. You might prefer it.

The camera is normally very good on auto WB, but eyedropper on a white midtone is my go-to for images I don't like the colour balance of. But as MDM says mixed lighting is often a bit of a drag.

 

Thanks, I prefer these tones after using the eye dropper - I normally do WB by eye, but the dropper was better here. Going to re-upload.

Steve

[MDM]

If that hand colour looks reasonable to spacecadet, then he has a problem either with his monitor or his vision. It looks like it has been taken out of a freezer. 

 

Just used an adjustment brush on the hand only in Photoshop's Camera Raw Filter. Took about 1 minute to correct the hand and leave the rest. Settings were Temp +70, Tint -55, Highlights - 80, Saturation -40. It has a red cast, not magenta, hence the need to add some Yellow. This is just approximate but it does the job.