Skin tones in closeup pictures

[Steve F]

1 minute ago, MDM said:

If that hand colour looks reasonable to spacecadet, then he has a problem either with his monitor or his vision. It looks like it has been taken out of a freezer. 

 

Just used an adjustment brush on the hand only in Photoshop's Camera Raw Filter. Took about 1 minute to correct the hand and leave the rest. Settings were Temp +70, Tint -55, Highlights - 80, Saturation -40. It has a red cast, not magenta, hence the need to add some Yellow. This is just approximate but it does the job.

 

 

 

That's why I was so bothered about the final images because it's actually quite warm in here and I'm not that red. Ok, will stop trying quick fixes and have a proper look into this. Will repost photos when done.

[MDM]

1 hour ago, Steve F said:

 

That's why I was so bothered about the final images because it's actually quite warm in here and I'm not that red. Ok, will stop trying quick fixes and have a proper look into this. Will repost photos when done.

 

From your profile pic you look more southern European or maybe just well-tanned so you could probably add more yellow and bring back some saturation in the adjustment brush than I was suggesting. I speak as a ruddy one with fair celtic complexion that goes red at the mere thought of sunshine, wind or cold.

 

People don't like to look red so I tend to desaturate ruddy skin tones a bit as it is a lot more flattering.  If I take pics of a couple and one is ruddy and the other has a nice tan or just normal white skin, then I will tend to use a local adjustment with desaturation on the ruddy one - not so much that it is noticeable but just a touch can be good. 

[spacecadet]

2 hours ago, MDM said:

If that hand colour looks reasonable to spacecadet, then he has a problem either with his monitor or his vision. It looks like it has been taken out of a freezer. 

 

Just used an adjustment brush on the hand only in Photoshop's Camera Raw Filter. Took about 1 minute to correct the hand and leave the rest. Settings were Temp +70, Tint -55, Highlights - 80, Saturation -40. It has a red cast, not magenta, hence the need to add some Yellow. This is just approximate but it does the job.

 

 

With neither, thanks. Just my opinion. You're entitled to yours.

As I said, and you said, plus on the temp and minus on the tint. Different figures from yours of course on the screenshot jpeg in LR. I also dropped the exposure a bit..

Edited November 12, 2019 by spacecadet

[Steve F]

22 minutes ago, MDM said:

 

From your profile pic you look more southern European or maybe just well-tanned so you could probably add more yellow and bring back some saturation in the adjustment brush than I was suggesting. I speak as a ruddy one with fair celtic complexion that goes red at the mere thought of sunshine, wind or cold.

 

People don't like to look red so I tend to desaturate ruddy skin tones a bit as it is a lot more flattering.  If I take pics of a couple and one is ruddy and the other has a nice tan or just normal white skin, then I will tend to use a local adjustment with desaturation on the ruddy one - not so much that it is noticeable but just a touch can be good. 

 

Appearances can be deceptive... That photo was another example of bad lighting - an office environment. I'm afraid to disappoint, I'm a very pale skinned Englishman! Not particularly red either!! Here's a more realistic profile picture then, I guess I better show myself

[M.Chapman]

2 hours ago, MDM said:

If that hand colour looks reasonable to spacecadet, then he has a problem either with his monitor or his vision. It looks like it has been taken out of a freezer. 

 

Just used an adjustment brush on the hand only in Photoshop's Camera Raw Filter. Took about 1 minute to correct the hand and leave the rest. Settings were Temp +70, Tint -55, Highlights - 80, Saturation -40. It has a red cast, not magenta, hence the need to add some Yellow. This is just approximate but it does the job.

 

I also prefer the result after your suggested adjustment, plus I also set an overall WB off the rim of the bowl.  I also tried using PSE which conveniently has an "adjust for natural skin tone" eyedropper which produces a result somewhere in the middle (to my eyes anyway). Why hasn't PS CC also got this feature - or maybe it has but I haven't found it.

 

Mark

[Allan Bell]

3 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

 

I also prefer the result after your suggested adjustment, plus I also set an overall WB off the rim of the bowl.  I also tried using PSE which conveniently has an "adjust for natural skin tone" eyedropper which produces a result somewhere in the middle (to my eyes anyway). Why hasn't PS CC also got this feature - or maybe it has but I haven't found it.

 

Mark

 

I suppose Adobe think that people using PSE need more help than the "Experts" who use PSCC.

 

Allan

 

[MDM]

3 hours ago, spacecadet said:

With neither, thanks. Just my opinion. You're entitled to yours.

As I said, and you said, plus on the temp and minus on the tint. Different figures from yours of course on the screenshot jpeg in LR. I also dropped the exposure a bit..

 

On my monitor that's a reasonable colour for skin particularly if it's a bit chilly.

 

 

It was the statement "On my monitor that's a reasonable colour for skin particularly if it's a bit chilly." that I was arguing about. Skin that colour would be entirely unnatural. It is not a matter of opinion - this is something that can be objectively measured within certain parameters. I download Steve's image with a right click which might be more accurate than a screenshot.

 

[MDM]

3 hours ago, Steve F said:

 

Appearances can be deceptive... That photo was another example of bad lighting - an office environment. I'm afraid to disappoint, I'm a very pale skinned Englishman! Not particularly red either!! Here's a more realistic profile picture then, I guess I better show myself

 

😀

[MDM]

2 hours ago, M.Chapman said:

 

I also prefer the result after your suggested adjustment, plus I also set an overall WB off the rim of the bowl.  I also tried using PSE which conveniently has an "adjust for natural skin tone" eyedropper which produces a result somewhere in the middle (to my eyes anyway). Why hasn't PS CC also got this feature - or maybe it has but I haven't found it.

 

Mark

You might find this interesting

[M.Chapman]

1 hour ago, MDM said:

You might find this interesting

 

I did thanks, I've made a note of those ratios for future reference.

 

This is a screenshot of the very useful tool PSE 8 provides together with the image (I also downloaded a copy from the forum posting) after adjustment of the hand area only..

 

 

Mark

Edited November 12, 2019 by M.Chapman

[spacecadet]

14 hours ago, MDM said:

Skin that colour would be entirely unnatural. It is not a matter of opinion - this is something that can be objectively measured within certain parameters

I'm not sure why you feel this exchange is necessary, but it's not something I'd know about not having the medical knowledge. Anyway I'm not sure how helpful this is to the OP- we're not producing medical images for diagnosis. Opinions were asked for, so unless you're claiming some special knowledge,  is it that relevant to have opinions on opinions?

 

Incidentally, I've just taken my hand out of my pocket, the room temperature is about 62F, there's a hint of pinkish- blue about it, I'm not ill and I have normal colour vision.

Edited November 13, 2019 by spacecadet

[MDM]

37 minutes ago, spacecadet said:

I'm not sure why you feel this exchange is necessary, but it's not something I'd know about not being medically qualified. I'm not sure how helpful this is to the OP- we're not producing medical images for diagnosis.

 

Incidentally, I've just taken my hand out of my pocket, the room temperature is about 62F, there's a hint of pinkish- blue about it, I'm not ill and I have normal colour vision.

 

I think you are missing the point here. I am not trying to annoy or upset you, simply making a point and taking issue objectively with the idea that this is subjective. It is not a matter of opinion. White skin tones fall within a certain range of RGB values that can be objectively measured on a computer.

 

To be clear, if one was to include a neutral grey card in the shot in the same light as a hand or face and use the eye dropper tool in Lightroom to get an accurate white balance, then the skin tones should be within a narrow RGB range. In the case of the photo above, the strong red - magenta cast on the hand in the original is due to lighting, not medical issues (or a very cold environment). The hand was in a different light to the main scene. 

Edited November 13, 2019 by MDM

[MDM]

12 hours ago, M.Chapman said:

 

I did thanks, I've made a note of those ratios for future reference.

 

This is a screenshot of the very useful tool PSE 8 provides together with the image (I also downloaded a copy from the forum posting) after adjustment of the hand area only..

 

 

Mark

 

Interesting and it certainly seems to work there.

 

However, I think experience and practice is the key though in getting accurate skin tones in developing the raw file. You can't beat a grey card really although it is important to remain aware of the colour of the light source - do I want to retain warm colours if the light is warm for example. And of course we go back to the issue of how an image will appear on different monitors and the colour space thing again. And then there is printing and the light used for viewing the print. A difficult area. 

[Steve F]

...

Edited November 13, 2019 by Steve F
Double posted

[Steve F]

On 12/11/2019 at 15:03, MDM said:

Just used an adjustment brush on the hand only in Photoshop's Camera Raw Filter. Took about 1 minute to correct the hand and leave the rest. Settings were Temp +70, Tint -55, Highlights - 80, Saturation -40. It has a red cast, not magenta, hence the need to add some Yellow. This is just approximate but it does the job.

 

 

 

Thanks a lot MDM! Here are the updated pictures. How did you come across these corrections? Just practice, or was it experimentation too? Steve

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2019 by Steve F

[MDM]

18 hours ago, Steve F said:

 

Thanks a lot MDM! Here are the updated pictures. How did you come across these corrections? Just practice, or was it experimentation too? Steve

 

 

 

Don't mention it Steve. I didn't read anywhere about doing local adjusments to try and get acceptable skin tones - it is just a natural progression from my general workflow. I am a perfectionist though and happy to be that way. You can't beat doing your own prints with a decent printer to really focus the mind on the issues as you have total control over the process whereas if you send stuff to a lab you might never learn unless you ask them not to do any colour correction. 

 

I do a lot of portrait photography (not for stock) and it is most important to flatter people as much as possible if you want satisfied clients so you definitely don't want to make them look red-faced. Nor do you want to make them look too yellow as they start to look jaundiced. Actually a lot of people like black and white which gets around the problem nicely. 

 

As I said above I tend to use the radial filter in LR more than the freehand adjustment brush as it is very suitable for making quick modifications to circular or elliptical areas such as faces and eyes. So a quick colour modification works really well using the WB and saturation controls (desaturation works great for red faces) together with the other controls for lightening (great for brightening eyes) or darkening and so on. The advantage of the radial filter is that it can be synchronised rapidly across a group of similar pics and moved on individual pics after that if necessary. 

 

Finally, if those pics were mine I would darken the hands a bit using a local control as they are still a bit washed out - take down the highlights and maybe the exposure as well.  The hands are also still too red for my liking as well. That tip on the link I posted from the Adobe forum where green should be around half way between red and blue actually works very well. 

 

 

[Betty LaRue]

Michael, speaking of differences in skin color. My daughter’s complexion is more yellow, she has some freckles and an auburn tint in her hair. Her husband is very ruddy. Developing a couples portrait of them requires skill. 
Betty

[MDM]

 

51 minutes ago, Betty LaRue said:

Michael, speaking of differences in skin color. My daughter’s complexion is more yellow, she has some freckles and an auburn tint in her hair. Her husband is very ruddy. Developing a couples portrait of them requires skill. 
Betty

 

No problem with those Lightroom/ACR local adjustments Betty. Made for the job. Not that I am suggesting you touch them though 😁.

[Betty LaRue]

43 minutes ago, MDM said:

 

 

No problem with those Lightroom/ACR local adjustments Betty. Made for the job. Not that I am suggesting you touch them though 😁.

[Steve F]

On 14/11/2019 at 10:06, MDM said:

Don't mention it Steve. I didn't read anywhere about doing local adjusments to try and get acceptable skin tones - it is just a natural progression from my general workflow. I am a perfectionist though and happy to be that way. You can't beat doing your own prints with a decent printer to really focus the mind on the issues as you have total control over the process whereas if you send stuff to a lab you might never learn unless you ask them not to do any colour correction. 

 

I do a lot of portrait photography (not for stock) and it is most important to flatter people as much as possible if you want satisfied clients so you definitely don't want to make them look red-faced. Nor do you want to make them look too yellow as they start to look jaundiced. Actually a lot of people like black and white which gets around the problem nicely.

 

Finally, if those pics were mine I would darken the hands a bit using a local control as they are still a bit washed out - take down the highlights and maybe the exposure as well.  The hands are also still too red for my liking as well. That tip on the link I posted from the Adobe forum where green should be around half way between red and blue actually works very well.

 

Thanks Michael. Yes, Alamy is a good incentive to become perfectionist because you can see all the great photos that the competition have done compared to yours... (or mine at least!) I think the mistake here was photographing with mixed lighting - it's just a pain to shoot in natural light at the moment because it's so dull. I guess I should get some daylight bulbs....

 

Black and white is a whole other minefield because then you get into things like how many light sources, and angles of lights and high key low key etc. But it's good fun!

 

Thanks for the additional tips.

Steve

[MDM]

On 16/11/2019 at 11:15, Steve F said:

 

 

Black and white is a whole other minefield because then you get into things like how many light sources, and angles of lights and high key low key etc. But it's good fun!

 

 

 

You can learn so much about light and tone using black and white as it actually simplifies everything taking the colour out. Well worth delving deeply into I think. The stuff I learned (taught myself) back in the days of black and white film and the darkroom has been invaluable in this digital age. Not nostalgic or wanting to go back in time at all I should add but I still love monochrome, particularly for portraiture. I think I have only ever submitted one black and white image to Alamy though so not really recommending that. 

[marc]

Rather than spend time trying to correct the skin tones, why not just gel your interior lights  (providing they are not too hot)  and then white balance the camera  https://www.stagedepot.co.uk/lighting/lighting-gel/high-temperature/65-daylight-blue-lighting-gel-sheet-1?gclid=CjwKCAiA5o3vBRBUEiwA9PVzandAFiOs0Qxtz4f_UBgTTZJp_xpH5FP3JdPYnIEDvC8cgt9Zw1p0pBoChAIQAvD_BwE

 

Or block out the natural light, and then white balance

 

Also, if you are looking to sell these images, I would get a manicure. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2019 by marc