geogphotos Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) Panorama Is the Cloud Damaging the Planet? We all love the cloud. It stores our pictures and emails, it powers our internet searches, and it helps us stream movies and box sets. But out of sight, the cloud depends on processing factories - vast data centres that use enormous amounts of power and water. Every time we go online, we increase its carbon footprint. Richard Bilton investigates the growing environmental problem we’re all responsible for The programme is probably only available in UK though the issue affects everybody? https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001hzb3/panorama-is-the-cloud-damaging-the-planet Edited February 8, 2023 by geogphotos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geogphotos Posted February 8, 2023 Author Share Posted February 8, 2023 A long, detailed article here: https://thereader.mitpress.mit.edu/the-staggering-ecological-impacts-of-computation-and-the-cloud/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ognyan Yosifov Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) deleted Edited February 9, 2023 by Ognyan Yosifov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geogphotos Posted February 8, 2023 Author Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) The word 'Cloud' really is misleading isn't it! I wonder what Alamy can do to mitigate the storage of its ever growing collection of over 320 million images. It is obvious that things have to change - there is no point everything being stored for ever and ever - every email, every snapshot, every comment. The only way will be to introduce limits and disincentives ie) charges and costs Could that be a challenge, even a threat to Alamy? Edited February 8, 2023 by geogphotos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Bell Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 I never liked the idea of the cloud. That is why I have my own cloud, ie backups on a daily basis. Does not use water and only minimal electric which I pay for. ie I do not store my images and whatever for free on iCloud. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Allan Bell said: I never liked the idea of the cloud. That is why I have my own cloud, ie backups on a daily basis. Does not use water and only minimal electric which I pay for. ie I do not store my images and whatever for free on iCloud. Allan You don't use a smartphone, then? Er, of course your Alamy port is online as well. Can't avoid it. I would expect the environmental impact of your own hardware (manufacture and maintenance) is much greater than the equivalent cloud storage. Edited February 8, 2023 by spacecadet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Chapman Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 1 hour ago, geogphotos said: Panorama Is the Cloud Damaging the Planet? We all love the cloud. It stores our pictures and emails, it powers our internet searches, and it helps us stream movies and box sets. But out of sight, the cloud depends on processing factories - vast data centres that use enormous amounts of power and water. Every time we go online, we increase its carbon footprint. Richard Bilton investigates the growing environmental problem we’re all responsible for The programme is probably only available in UK though the issue affects everybody? https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001hzb3/panorama-is-the-cloud-damaging-the-planet I was left wondering about the other side of the equation which was largely unmentioned. If I stream a movie from the cloud instead of buying DVD what is the net effect? How do the energy costs of producing and shipping a DVD compare with the costs of hosting a copy of the movie online that can be accessed by thousands of potential viewers? But I do agree that the current approach is too wasteful. Why do folks store everything when much of it's junk? Charging for Cloud storage should be mandatory. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, M.Chapman said: Charging for Cloud storage should be mandatory. It is- it's just paid for by the likes of Google and not directly by their users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geogphotos Posted February 8, 2023 Author Share Posted February 8, 2023 20 minutes ago, spacecadet said: It is- it's just paid for by the likes of Google and not directly by their users. I think it that it is just a matter of time before this bubble bursts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Chapman Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, spacecadet said: It is- it's just paid for by the likes of Google and not directly by their users. Yes - and that's part of the problem. IMO users should pay directly, in proportion to the GB of Cloud storage used. Mark Edited February 8, 2023 by M.Chapman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Harrison Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) There is also the matter of the blockchain, crypto, NFTs, Bitcoin. etc. and I suppose the proposed digital currency announced in the UK last week. Huge amounts of processing power are needed to provide the unique certificates for these types of transactions. This was one of the main criticisms of the various NFT Ponzi schemes last year and some have moved to the less damaging 'Proof of Stake' from the hugely damaging 'Proof of Work' to counter at least one of the criticisms. Edited February 8, 2023 by Harry Harrison 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geogphotos Posted February 8, 2023 Author Share Posted February 8, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, M.Chapman said: Yes - and that's part of the problem. IMO users should pay directly, in proportion to the GB of Cloud storage used. Mark At Alamy? - should we be paying for storage? That would be a new ball-game! Edited February 8, 2023 by geogphotos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Chapman Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 14 hours ago, geogphotos said: At Alamy? - should we be paying for storage? That would be a new ball-game! Good point, I suppose we pay indirectly if we make a sale (via the commission Alamy takes). But the amount we pay is based on sales and not the storage required. Maybe if we had to pay for storage it would reduce the "cruft" on Alamy? I wonder what proportion of the 300 million images here are never going to sell, and how many are duplicates? On the other hand, because I can't use Alamy as storage (e.g. backup etc.) perhaps it should be regarded as Alamy's storage, not mine, which they do pay for directly. But Alamy seem to have no desire to reduce the storage as they seek to add more and more images and sell them for lower and lower prices... Mark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inchiquin Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 17 hours ago, spacecadet said: I would expect the environmental impact of your own hardware (manufacture and maintenance) is much greater than the equivalent cloud storage. That is exactly what I thought when I watched the programme. I've always tried to avoid the cloud, not because of storage costs but because I want control of my own data. I fetch and read all emails on my computer, I store and back up all my data, photographs, music etc locally, I only use a smartphone once a year when I'm on holiday. The environmental cost of running three computers (one 24/7, one 16/7 and the other intermittently) must surely be greater than my share of the cloud would be, but on the other hand I would be running the computers anyway. I do stream a lot though. When you have fibre to the premises it seems silly not to get maximum advantage from it. But it's all going to be stored on the cloud anyway whether I stream it or not. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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