Architectural ID?

[John Mitchell]

A couple of architectural detail questions that I'm hoping to get some help with:

 

Does anyone know what this style of of decorative masonry with bricks sticking out at right angles might be called? Vancouver houses built during Edwardian times sometimes sport chimneys like these. I've also seen this type of brickwork in exterior walls of old houses. 

 

 

 

Also, I have no idea what this steep-sided peaked roof might be called in the architectural world. It looks a bit like a witch's hat to me. Is it a type of cupola?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2020 by John Mitchell

[Niels Quist]

Presume you have been on these sites, you are the native, I am just a stupid Viking:

 

https://www.adrianarchitecture.org/glossary

 

https://www.vancouverheritagefoundation.org/house-styles/queen-anne-revival/

Edited September 12, 2020 by Niels Quist

[Gorilla Dave]

Here's an interesting list of British bricklaying terms... the terminology may also apply in Canada.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_British_bricklaying

i'd guess the pattern up the corners of the chimney might be call 'dog tooth',
while the other bricks sticking out of the main faces might be described as 'decorative protruding headers' or 'decorative projecting headers'.

GD

 

 

 

[spacecadet]

Cupola, also turret. We have quite  few in East London. Also Edwardian generally.

These are in Herfordshire and East Yorkshire though.

Edited September 12, 2020 by spacecadet

[John Mitchell]

6 hours ago, Niels Quist said:

Presume you have been on these sites, you are the native, I am just a stupid Viking:

 

https://www.adrianarchitecture.org/glossary

 

https://www.vancouverheritagefoundation.org/house-styles/queen-anne-revival/

 

Thanks very much. I had forgotten about the Vancouver Heritage website. It looks as if the first one would be classed as a turret.

[John Mitchell]

5 hours ago, Gorilla Dave said:

Here's an interesting list of British bricklaying terms... the terminology may also apply in Canada.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_British_bricklaying

i'd guess the pattern up the corners of the chimney might be call 'dog tooth',
while the other bricks sticking out of the main faces might be described as 'decorative protruding headers' or 'decorative projecting headers'.

GD

 

 

Thanks. I'll have to work my way through that list. My grandfather was a bricklayer and stone mason from Cumbria. It seems that the gene didn't get passed on...

 

"Dog tooth" sounds good. I'll check it out further.

[John Mitchell]

4 hours ago, spacecadet said:

Cupola, also turret. We have quite  few in East London. Also Edwardian generally.

These are in Herfordshire and East Yorkshire though.

 

Vancouver is a young city, so it doesn't begin to compare with London when it comes to historic architecture. However, the neighbourhood that I live in has a lot of large Edwardian era houses. Many have been remodelled FBFW and turned into condominiums. I actually live in one of the latter, built in 1912 I believe. Luckily, it retains most of its original architectural details.

 

Here's a cupola that has survived.

 

Edited September 12, 2020 by John Mitchell

[John Mitchell]

6 hours ago, Gorilla Dave said:

Here's an interesting list of British bricklaying terms... the terminology may also apply in Canada.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_British_bricklaying

i'd guess the pattern up the corners of the chimney might be call 'dog tooth',
while the other bricks sticking out of the main faces might be described as 'decorative protruding headers' or 'decorative projecting headers'.

GD

 

 

Looks like "dog tooth protrusions" and decorative protruding/projecting headers are the best descriptors. Think I'll go with those. Thanks again.

[wiskerke]

I would keyword very specialized subjects like this also sort of backwards: first sift through AoA looking for search terms that might be applicable and then decide which to use. With the absolute perfect one in the caption. And maybe in the description as well to prove you know your stuff and the client can caption it confidently.

 

wim

[wiskerke]

I would think a dog tooth is a brick set at 45 degrees, either sticking out or in line. Also called a sawtooth. Maybe that's US.

A brick sticking out at 90 degrees is a dentil. However I have no idea what a corner like this is called. Mock Tudoresque?

 

BBJE2F  - The real thing. (not mine - wish it was)

 

Here some people still call a brick cut in a certain way a paardelul: horse dick. You call it a queen(s) closer. I know because we have (at least used to have) a prize in architecture the Golden P (=Paardelul) which is a golden or gold painted piece of brick. It's even funnier because the name givers got it wrong: it's actually called a stallion's dick (hengstelul) among Dutch bricklayers. But then it would not have been the alliteration we're so fond of. A paardelul is (now at least) the name for the poker vibrator for concrete.

The prize is for a really stupid architectural mishap. The British equivalent would be the Carbuncle Cup.

Oh and the official name of that cut brick is klisklezoor, which also very much sounds like a dirty word to most.

 

wim

Edited September 12, 2020 by wiskerke
deleted the soccer bit

[John Mitchell]

1 hour ago, wiskerke said:

I would think a dog tooth is a brick set at 45 degrees, either sticking out or in line. Also called a sawtooth. Maybe that's US.

A brick sticking out at 90 degrees is a dentil. However I have no idea what a corner like this is called. Mock Tudoresque?

 

BBJE2F  - The real thing. (not mine - wish it was)

 

Here some people still call a brick cut in a certain way a paardelul: horse dick. You call it a queen(s) closer. I know because we have (at least used to have) a prize in architecture the Golden P (=Paardelul) which is a golden or gold painted piece of brick. It's even funnier because the name givers got it wrong: it's actually called a stallion's dick (hengstelul) among Dutch bricklayers. But then it would not have been the alliteration we're so fond of. A paardelul is (now at least) the name for the poker vibrator for concrete.

The prize is for a really stupid architectural mishap. The British equivalent would be the Carbuncle Cup.

Oh and the official name of that cut brick is klisklezoor, which also very much sounds like a dirty word to most.

 

wim

 

An Alamy search for "saw tooth" brings up this, which kinda makes sense. Similar search for "dog tooth brickwork" brings up something completely different.

 

Dentil looks a lot more organized than the chimney I photographed. Perhaps the bricklayer just had too many beers for lunch. 🍻

 

A daren't even search for "hengstelul". 😲

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2020 by John Mitchell

[wiskerke]

1 hour ago, John Mitchell said:

An Alamy search for "saw tooth" brings up this, which kinda makes sense. Similar search for "dog tooth brickwork" brings up something completely different.

 

Dentil looks a lot more organized than the chimney I photographed. Perhaps the bricklayer just had too many beers for lunch. 🍻

 

A daren't even search for "hengstelul". 😲

😂😂

 

You have 2 Alamy links that are the same I think.

 

As a check I just searched for brickwork or masonry + dentil or sawtooth or saw tooth or dog tooth on Google Images.

(We live in a very very modest 1927 version of Amsterdamse School building, a form of Brick Expressionism. So modest we have no expressionist brickwork.)

 

wim

[John Mitchell]

3 hours ago, wiskerke said:

😂😂

 

You have 2 Alamy links that are the same I think.

 

As a check I just searched for brickwork or masonry + dentil or sawtooth or saw tooth or dog tooth on Google Images.

(We live in a very very modest 1927 version of Amsterdamse School building, a form of Brick Expressionism. So modest we have no expressionist brickwork.)

 

wim

 

Yes, I screwed up the links. Think I had better play safe and stick with something like "red brick masonry chimney with decorative protruding bricks". I quite like the quirky  look of the chimney. Brick expressionism definitely isn't what it used to be...

Edited September 13, 2020 by John Mitchell

[Niels Quist]

- perhaps just a lazy bricklayer who didn't care to go all the way down to half the bricks who created a new style.

[John Mitchell]

9 hours ago, Niels Quist said:

- perhaps just a lazy bricklayer who didn't care to go all the way down to half the bricks who created a new style.

 

Could be the same bricklayer. There are three of these unusual chimneys near my place, all on houses built during the same time.

[Johnnie5]

The bricks in the chimney look like Clinker bricks  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinker_brick

 

[spacecadet]

On 13/09/2020 at 03:42, wiskerke said:

😂😂

 

You have 2 Alamy links that are the same I think.

 

As a check I just searched for brickwork or masonry + dentil or sawtooth or saw tooth or dog tooth on Google Images.

(We live in a very very modest 1927 version of Amsterdamse School building, a form of Brick Expressionism. So modest we have no expressionist brickwork.)

 

wim

😛😛 Wim probably knows these.

 

 

not (or perhaps) to be confused with Backsteingotik.......

Edited September 25, 2020 by spacecadet

[John Mitchell]

5 hours ago, Johnnie5 said:

The bricks in the chimney look like Clinker bricks  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinker_brick

 

 

 

Thanks, I'll look into that.

[John Mitchell]

While we're on the subject of architecture, I was never sure how to describe this old window that I photographed in Montreal quite a long time ago. Any ideas? I guess it's a type of bay window --- "Box Bay Window" or "Triangle Bay Window" perhaps?

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by John Mitchell

[GeoffK]

It's a type of Oriel window

 

https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-an-oriel-window-177517

 

FYI  https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriel_College,_Oxford

Edited September 25, 2020 by GeoffK

[John Mitchell]

5 hours ago, GeoffK said:

It's a type of Oriel window

 

https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-an-oriel-window-177517

 

FYI  https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriel_College,_Oxford

 

Interesting. This window is a bit unusual in that it actually has another window just like it on top of it -- i.e. there is no platform on top. The article that you linked to does say that Oriel windows are a type of bay window. I'll make sure both "bay window" and "oriel window" are in the keywords. Thanks. 

 

UPDATE: It looks a bit like these windows, but not as old or as ornate of course.

 

Judging by the platforms, these are probably Oriel windows (also in Montreal) as well by the sounds of it. No?

 

Edited September 26, 2020 by John Mitchell

[wiskerke]

7 hours ago, spacecadet said:

😛😛 Wim probably knows these.

 

 

not (or perhaps) to be confused with Backsteingotik.......

 

Obviously you already know where these are. I recognized the ones from Cologne, but have not been to Rostock yet.

The Hansahochhaus certainly qualifies: build in 1924-25 with interesting details. And an interesting history.

The bricks are a bit deceptive: it's actually a steel and concrete building. Skyscraper even. The bricks are real, but used as outside wallpaper.

The same story it seems with the tower, some of us may remember it from visiting the PhotoKina in Cologne. The Rheinhallen next to it, where the Kina is held, date from the same year. Because the people from Cologne hated the concrete and steel industrial look of the new exhibition buildings, the bricks have been wallpapered on two years later by a new municipal architect who also added the tower in the same brick pattern. Now the town folk loved it, also because there was a restaurant on the top floor with great views over the city. Now closed which is a pity. Have a look at it's details here, especially the sculpture on the top: that pine cone/pineapple/grenade is a fish and stands for the Rhine. Also note the great pictures of the 2005/2006 renovation where they have kept the brick wallpaper, but removed the entire building on the inside.

 

The Maria church in Rostock looks the part, but is indeed actually quite old: It was ready by 1454, but they started building 200 years earlier. Albeit a smaller building as was often the case of course. Interesting fun fact: the smaller building was kept inside the new building for a long time and was the birthplace of the first German university on November 12 in 1419.

So it's the real thing: Backsteingotik, Brick Gothic.

Interesting is the role it played in the 1989 ending of the DDR, when the Wall came down. The Lutheran pastor at that moment was involved in the opposition against the regime and later became president of the re-united Germany from 2012 till 2017. Protests (of the peace movement, Friedensbewegung) against the DDR state always started at the church.

If you want to know what the DDR looked like, here's a 1989 TV news show from just weeks before the collapse.

 

Somehow I have still not visited this corner of Germany. From the west I have not traveled further than Kiel and Hamburg; from the other side, not further than about 75km north from Berlin and Potsdam. So about 180km from Rostock on both sides. That whole region is definitely on the list though.

 

wim

 

 

Edited September 26, 2020 by wiskerke

[GeoffK]

9 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

 

Interesting. This window is a bit unusual in that it actually has another window just like it on top of it -- i.e. there is no platform on top. The article that you linked to does say that Oriel windows are a type of bay window. I'll make sure both "bay window" and "oriel window" are in the keywords. Thanks. 

 

UPDATE: It looks a bit like these windows, but not as old or as ornate of course.

 

Judging by the platforms, these are probably Oriel windows (also in Montreal) as well by the sounds of it. No?

 

 

Hi John

 

IIRC, Bay windows are any that protrude even down to building ground level adding floor space to a room. An Oriel doesn't go to ground level - it is supported by a corbel (in the old days) of which you have a pair in your original question.

 

So both terms are good, one is generic, one specific.

[spacecadet]

11 hours ago, wiskerke said:

 

Obviously you already know where these are. I recognized the ones from Cologne, but have not been to Rostock yet.

The Hansahochhaus certainly qualifies: build in 1924-25 with interesting details. And an interesting history.

The bricks are a bit deceptive: it's actually a steel and concrete building. Skyscraper even. The bricks are real, but used as outside wallpaper.

The same story it seems with the tower, some of us may remember it from visiting the PhotoKina in Cologne. The Rheinhallen next to it, where the Kina is held, date from the same year. Because the people from Cologne hated the concrete and steel industrial look of the new exhibition buildings, the bricks have been wallpapered on two years later by a new municipal architect who also added the tower in the same brick pattern. Now the town folk loved it, also because there was a restaurant on the top floor with great views over the city. Now closed which is a pity. Have a look at it's details here, especially the sculpture on the top: that pine cone/pineapple/grenade is a fish and stands for the Rhine. Also note the great pictures of the 2005/2006 renovation where they have kept the brick wallpaper, but removed the entire building on the inside.

 

The Maria church in Rostock looks the part, but is indeed actually quite old: It was ready by 1454, but they started building 200 years earlier. Albeit a smaller building as was often the case of course. Interesting fun fact: the smaller building was kept inside the new building for a long time and was the birthplace of the first German university on November 12 in 1419.

So it's the real thing: Backsteingotik, Brick Gothic.

Interesting is the role it played in the 1989 ending of the DDR, when the Wall came down. The Lutheran pastor at that moment was involved in the opposition against the regime and later became president of the re-united Germany from 2012 till 2017. Protests (of the peace movement, Friedensbewegung) against the DDR state always started at the church.

If you want to know what the DDR looked like, here's a 1989 TV news show from just weeks before the collapse.

 

Somehow I have still not visited this corner of Germany. From the west I have not traveled further than Kiel and Hamburg; from the other side, not further than about 75km north from Berlin and Potsdam. So about 180km from Rostock on both sides. That whole region is definitely on the list though.

 

wim

 

 

Thanks, Wim. I didn't know about the after-the-fact cladding. Photokina was a regular gig for us from '98-2010 as I had a reporting commission from the trade press.. We still go to Köln every even-numbered year* because we got to like the city more than the show. Always a curry at the Ganesha and a good bit of Kölsch somewhere.

 

We actually went to Rostock on a Baltic cruise on the Marco Polo. It's a train ride from the terminal at Warnemünde and well worth a visit of more than our few hours.

Of course the Marco Polo wasn't far from home as she was built at Wismar.

*Except 2020, obvs. Germany was fine, but the ferry to France wasn't. So we lost our last chance to bring back a carload of Mosel Riesling.

Edited September 26, 2020 by spacecadet

[John Mitchell]

8 hours ago, GeoffK said:

 

Hi John

 

IIRC, Bay windows are any that protrude even down to building ground level adding floor space to a room. An Oriel doesn't go to ground level - it is supported by a corbel (in the old days) of which you have a pair in your original question.

 

So both terms are good, one is generic, one specific.

 

Thanks again, Geoff. I gather that the curved bay windows below would be "Bow Windows". Correct? I don't seem to see any corbels, so I don't think they are Oriel.

 

Edited September 26, 2020 by John Mitchell