Capture One Express for Sony oddity

[M.Chapman]

5 hours ago, ReeRay said:

 Maybe this link will help to define the Catalog v Session option.  

 

https://www.azuloxworkshops.com/educational/capture-one/capture-one-catalogs-vs-sessions/

 

I've been using Capture One for years and have never bothered with Catalog preferring Sessions. Seemed a lot easier to understand in the "old days". Never had any problems or losses and I've switched computers numerous times. 

 

I'm not sure the Sony Express version of Capture supports Sessions, if it does I couldn't find it. I'd probably make more use of Capture One Sony if I could simply navigate to a RAW image, open it, make adjustments, and export. No catalogues, no sessions. Simples...

 

Mark

Edited May 20, 2020 by M.Chapman

[Harry Harrison]

Since we're talking about Capture One I've just had the following email from them, subject - "Your Smugmug Plan - Resend"

 

"Thanks for upgrading and continue being a valued Capture One customer. We can’t wait to see all you can do with our best photo editing tools yet. That’s why we’re giving you a 12-month SmugMug account – so you can store and share your work with ease.

 

Simply click the button below to claim your free SmugMug subscription - before it expires on July 7th 2020"

 

Thing is, I only use the free Fuji Express version, so I haven't upgraded anything, surely some mistake.  As it happens I don't want a free Smugmug account anyway. It's from hello@captureone.com.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Harry Harrison

[M.Chapman]

2 hours ago, Harry Harrison said:

Since we're talking about Capture One I've just had the following email from them, subject - "Your Smugmug Plan - Resend"

 

"Thanks for upgrading and continue being a valued Capture One customer. We can’t wait to see all you can do with our best photo editing tools yet. That’s why we’re giving you a 12-month SmugMug account – so you can store and share your work with ease.

 

Simply click the button below to claim your free SmugMug subscription - before it expires on July 7th 2020"

 

Thing is, I only use the free Fuji Express version, so I haven't upgraded anything, surely some mistake.  As it happens I don't want a free Smugmug account anyway. It's from hello@captureone.com.

 

I got the same email too. But I have just upgraded my Free Sony Express version, so I wasn't surprised.

 

Mark

[MDM]

20 hours ago, M.Chapman said:

 

It all depends on the maths used to "linearise" the distortion. Pixel positions can either be remapped by shifting affected pixel values outwards (away from the image centre), in which case the original image size is retained but image quality at the edges is reduced as data is "spread out". In the other case affected pixels values are shifted inwards (towards the centre). In this case image quality is retained (and possibly enhanced were image data is squeezed together). But the image will require cropping and so the pixel dimensions of the image are reduced.

 

I find it can be useful to turn off distortion correction on wide angle lens shots of subjects without straight lines as it improves corner sharpness. I can do this in LR or PS by altering the image metadata (using EXIFToolGUI.exe) before opening the image. Other packages (e.g. DXO) allow automatic lens distortion correction to be turned on an off, but not Adobe.

 

Mark

 

First paragraph is very interesting. I remember years ago using a Canon20D during a short flirtation with Canon using perspective control in Photoshop and the edgess of the image went to mush. That doesn't happen with anything I am doing nowadays in Lightroom working on raw NEF files - the edges are as sharp as the they should be. 

 

The bit about Adobe is incorrect as it depends on the lens. With Nikon it is only the Z series lenses (S lenses) that have built in profiles automatically applied, all others in my experience can be turned off.  Sony seem to have been doing this for some time. However, if you click Custom Profile (talking Lightroom Classic here not older versions) and manually find the lens profile in the profile boxes, then it is possible to use the distortion slider on the Adobe lens profile. It is not clear if it is actually using a different profile and the differences are minimal or possibly non-existent in the case of the Panasonic raw file that you made available in relation to slide copying. I read in Martin Evening's Lightroom book that it is the camera companies forcing Adobe to use the built-in profiles automatically. 

 

Finally, I read recently and I can't remember where offhand that modern lenses tend to be geared towards sharpness at the expense of distortion as this is easily corrected in post nowadays and is almost certainly the reason that the camera makers are enforcing the use of automatic lens profiles.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by MDM

[MDM]

3 hours ago, meanderingemu said:

The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel

 

Brief diversion: The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel - brilliant, genius, hilarious, incredible cinematography. Thanks for the tip. Just finished Series 3 🤣

[Harry Harrison]

13 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

I got the same email too. But I have just upgraded my Free Sony Express version, so I wasn't surprised.

Methinks someone used the wrong database and by the looks of the grammar and half-baked subject title possibly sent it out before checking too carefully.

[Harry Harrison]

11 minutes ago, MDM said:

during a short flirtation with Canon

A what!!? 

[MDM]

5 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

A what!!? 

 

Yes 🤣  - back in June 2005 I bought my first DSLR - the Canon 20D. I bought a fairly expensive  (>£500) Canon standard zoom rather than the kit lens and a 60 macro. I was never happy with the image quality from the zoom having been used to using Nikon primes on my film cameras. Fortunately I kept the Nikkor lenses (including the 55 Micro which has been seeing action again as you know). When Nikon brought out the D700 in 2008 as their first affordable full frame camera, I jumped back on board the Nikon ship and there I have remained ever since. 

 

 

 

[M.Chapman]

28 minutes ago, MDM said:

The bit about Adobe is incorrect as it depends on the lens. With Nikon it is only the Z series lenses (S lenses) that have built in profiles automatically applied, all others in my experience can be turned off.  Sony seem to have been doing this for some time. However, if you click Custom Profile (talking Lightroom Classic here not older versions) and manually find the lens profile in the profile boxes, then it is possible to use the distortion slider on the Adobe lens profile.

 

Must depend on the camera manufacturer too 😞. I just tried it on a variety of my RAW files.

Canon G10 (fixed zoom lens) - Seems to work

Canon G15 (fixed zoom lens) - Can't disable distortion correction in LR Classic

Lumix G5 and G7 - Can't disable distortion with any of my Lumix lenses in LR classic, unless I use ExiftoolGUI.exe to set the "DistortionCorrection" tag in the RAW file to OFF. Panasonic/Lumix doesn't appear in LR's list of lenses I can select a manual correction profile for either.

It's as if the "built in" distortion correction happens very early in the RAW decoding process in LR for some cameras/lenses.

 

But DxO allows me to turn distortion correction on and off at will. It can really save some wide angle shots if corner softness is a problem. (As can using ExifToolGUI).

 

ISTR there's a section on distortion correction, vignetting and CA removal flags in the Adobe DNG file spec.

 

28 minutes ago, MDM said:

Finally, I read recently and I can't remember where offhand that modern lenses tend to be geared towards sharpness at the expense of distortion as this is easily corrected in post nowadays and is almost certainly the reason that the camera makers are enforcing the use of automatic lens profiles.

 

 

Yes I've read that too.

 

Mark

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by M.Chapman

[meanderingemu]

37 minutes ago, MDM said:

 

Brief diversion: The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel - brilliant, genius, hilarious, incredible cinematography. Thanks for the tip. Just finished Series 3 🤣

 

 

glad you enjoyed... 

[meanderingemu]

2 hours ago, Harry Harrison said:

Since we're talking about Capture One I've just had the following email from them, subject - "Your Smugmug Plan - Resend"

 

"Thanks for upgrading and continue being a valued Capture One customer. We can’t wait to see all you can do with our best photo editing tools yet. That’s why we’re giving you a 12-month SmugMug account – so you can store and share your work with ease.

 

Simply click the button below to claim your free SmugMug subscription - before it expires on July 7th 2020"

 

Thing is, I only use the free Fuji Express version, so I haven't upgraded anything, surely some mistake.  As it happens I don't want a free Smugmug account anyway. It's from hello@captureone.com.

 

yeah there must have been a glitch, as i didn't upgrade (i have a paid license) but also got the email

[M.Chapman]

I see there's a comparison of the features in Capture One Express versions versus the full version here.

It shows sessions aren't supported in the Express Versions.

 

Mark

 

[John Mitchell]

5 hours ago, M.Chapman said:

 

I'm not sure the Sony Express version of Capture supports Sessions, if it does I couldn't find it. I'd probably make more use of Capture One Sony if I could simply navigate to a RAW image, open it, make adjustments, and export. No catalogues, no sessions. Simples...

 

Mark

 

Simples is why I like DxO. I've developed my own idiosyncratic way of cataloguing images. However, I do prefer the processing tools in Capture One Express. Also, I end up having to do more tweaking in PS Elements after using DxO -- e.g. adjusting levels for Alamy, which is awkward in my version (9) of Optics Pro but easy in Elements and Capture One.

[John Mitchell]

2 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

I see there's a comparison of the features in Capture One Express versions versus the full version here.

It shows sessions aren't supported in the Express Versions.

 

Mark

 

 

Thanks. Sessions? Wasn't he some guy who got into trouble with Donald Trump? 😃

[John Mitchell]

11 hours ago, ReeRay said:

 Maybe this link will help to define the Catalog v Session option.  

 

https://www.azuloxworkshops.com/educational/capture-one/capture-one-catalogs-vs-sessions/

 

I've been using Capture One for years and have never bothered with Catalog preferring Sessions. Seemed a lot easier to understand in the "old days". Never had any problems or losses and I've switched computers numerous times. 

 

Thanks for the link. As Mark mentioned, the free "Express" version of Capture One doesn't support Sessions. However, the info on catalogues looks useful.

[John Mitchell]

7 hours ago, meanderingemu said:

 

 

glad you found it..  it's the same in the main version (i use the Fuji full one)....  I actually adjust the percentage slider on about 20% on shots

 

The distortion slider is pretty basic in the free version for Sony. I usually play around with the default setting. Strangely, I'm not sure that reducing the distortion setting brings back any pixels lost during the auto-correction. Do you use the catalogue much?

[meanderingemu]

3 minutes ago, John Mitchell said:

 

The distortion slider is pretty basic in the free version for Sony. I usually play around with the default setting. Strangely, I'm not sure that reducing the distortion setting brings back any pixels lost during the auto-correction. Do you use the catalogue much?

don't use the catalogue at all, but i never was looking for a filing system (even my LR was a mess)..... as i live on a laptop,  Files sit in Sessions on portable drive.  

[John Mitchell]

43 minutes ago, meanderingemu said:

don't use the catalogue at all, but i never was looking for a filing system (even my LR was a mess)..... as i live on a laptop,  Files sit in Sessions on portable drive.  

 

Have you found a way of disabling the catalogue so it doesn't take up room on your drive?

[Marianne]

On 19/05/2020 at 22:34, John Mitchell said:

 

That's really odd that you're seeing shrinkage of images captured with the Rokinon lens as Capture One Express only supports auto correction for Sony lenses. I see no loss of pixels when using manual focus lenses. Are you correcting distortion yourself using the "distortion" slider? The catalog is a complete mystery to me. I need to watch some "how to" videos.

 

Maybe I'm confusing it with Lightroom. I haven't used the Rokinon lens in a long time. 

[Marianne]

On 20/05/2020 at 15:32, John Mitchell said:

 

Have you found a way of disabling the catalogue so it doesn't take up room on your drive?

 

I'd like to know too. That's part of why I don't use it even though I think it does a great job with RAW files. I had even toyed with the idea of buying the complete version so I could use it with my Olympus but it didn't seem worth it - there's such a steep learning curve and LR does a perfectly good job. But for certain fine art files if it didn't create catalog files I'd use it. 

[John Mitchell]

52 minutes ago, Marianne said:

 

I'd like to know too. That's part of why I don't use it even though I think it does a great job with RAW files. I had even toyed with the idea of buying the complete version so I could use it with my Olympus but it didn't seem worth it - there's such a steep learning curve and LR does a perfectly good job. But for certain fine art files if it didn't create catalog files I'd use it. 

 

I think it is possible to go into the catalogue and delete images manually. If so, I'll probably try to do this if the catalogue gets too unruly and I end up not using it. I had a look at the differences between the "Express" version for Sony and the "Pro" version, and the features in the free software look to be all I need. Plus I'm a cheapskate both by design and by necessity. 😁

[ReeRay]

8 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

 

I think it is possible to go into the catalogue and delete images manually. If so, I'll probably try to do this if the catalogue gets too unruly and I end up not using it. I had a look at the differences between the "Express" version for Sony and the "Pro" version, and the features in the free software look to be all I need. Plus I'm a cheapskate both by design and by necessity. 😁

 

I may be reading this wrong as I'm no "techie" but using the full version all I see is that the catalog is using 264Mb only. 

 

I do not backup the catalog as there are no images in my catalog (which I don't use) as all are in sessions and these all sit on an external hard drive as previously stated. It seems to me therefore that C1 takes up very little space on my SSD H/D.

 

Hope I got this right and that it helps ! 

[John Mitchell]

30 minutes ago, ReeRay said:

 

I may be reading this wrong as I'm no "techie" but using the full version all I see is that the catalog is using 264Mb only. 

 

I do not backup the catalog as there are no images in my catalog (which I don't use) as all are in sessions and these all sit on an external hard drive as previously stated. It seems to me therefore that C1 takes up very little space on my SSD H/D.

 

Hope I got this right and that it helps ! 

 

Thanks for the info. I currently have less than 300 images in the catalog, and the catalog "cache" file already takes up over 500 MB on my SSD. I wonder what happens if I delete the cache? The "previews" in the cache take up most of the room. I don't even know what "previews" are.

 

 

[ReeRay]

1 hour ago, John Mitchell said:

 

Thanks for the info. I currently have less than 300 images in the catalog, and the catalog "cache" file already takes up over 500 MB on my SSD. I wonder what happens if I delete the cache? The "previews" in the cache take up most of the room. I don't even know what "previews" are.

 

 

The whole thing confuses me frankly. I leave all this up to my "techie" guy 

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by ReeRay

[Harry Harrison]

2 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

 

Thanks for the info. I currently have less than 300 images in the catalog, and the catalog "cache" file already takes up over 500 MB on my SSD.

I use Lightroom but I've always wondered if C1 (Express or more probably Pro) might be a suitable replacement so I watched some of this video:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1041&v=IqaZoskYy4w&feature=emb_logo

 

They do seem to have quite a lot of videos and they are obviously keen to show how easy it is to switch from Lightroom or Aperture.

 

The video seems to suggest that the catalog automatically creates 'Smart Previews" and you can choose how large these will be depending predominantly on your screen size so I suspect that this is where most of your 500 MB is going, that's only 1.67 MB for each of your 300 images after all.