Cropped Sensor Submissions (& ISO Question)

[ortho]

Hi Alamy community,

 

My first post here and intending to request a critique of my portfolio in due course but bear with me a little while whilst I prepare a few more submissions.

 

I have a question related to photos taken with my previous camera and eligibility for Alamy QC. There's also a question about ISO at the end which hopefully one of you can shed some light on.

 

Cropped Sensor

 

My current camera is a Nikon D610 (FX full frame) which is great, but prior to this I was using my trusty Nikon D60 for some time (APS-C DX cropped sensor). I liked the camera and took some of my best photos with it and would like to add these to Alamy but being new, I really don't want to risk failing QC and it damaging my ratings.

 

My question is, are cropped sensors an automatic fail? Or does it depend on image quality (sharpness/ exposure etc)? I've used two lenses with this, the kit 18-55mm for everyday and my fast 50mm f1.8. The 50mm gives very good image quality but obviously a slightly smaller size than the FX. I've posted examples below of photos taken with the camera with the two lenses. Hopefully you can see these and give a quick review, or let me know if there is a way I can post at full size?

 

D60 + 18-55mm kit lens

 

 

D60 + 50mm f1.8

 

 

ISO

 

My second question is also related to the QC process and ISO. I took some interior photos with my D610 which I'd like to upload but it wasn't possible to use a tripod, so i set to ISO 800. When I view this in Lightroom, there is inevitably some noise, but not sure how bad this is in comparison, and whether it would pass QC. I've also posted this image below and would appreciate any comments. I haven't attempted to remove any noise in Lightroom but can do if you think that would improve the chances (I haven't used this feature previously).

 

D610 + 24-85mm kit lens

 

 

I'm being cautious here so please give honest feedback. I really don't want to fail QC (5 successful submissions so far!).

 

Many thanks for your time.

Edited March 31, 2020 by ortho

[MDM]

Sally's answer is very much on the ball so I'll just add a couple of thoughts. You just have to make sure your images are a minimum size of 17MB or just under 6MP to pass Alamy QC. It has nothing to do with whether the picture was taken on a full frame or crop sensor camera but has a lot to do with how much you crop. If you shot raw in the first place then you have a lot more leeway to reduce noise in Lightroom. One thing that can be very helpful in both sharpening and noise reduction is to downsize the image when exporting the JPEG from Lightroom or in Photoshop so keeping it at or above 6MP (or 17MB) is the goal. Pixel dimensions of 3000x2000 on an uncropped image are fine.

 

Finally Dropbox is a great place to upload full size images if you want a proper appraisal. It even allows you to upload raw images. There is no point in uploading images to a site that alters the images.

Edited March 30, 2020 by MDM

[MizBrown]

I've had photos taken with a micro 4/3rd 10 or 12 MP camera pass QC (Panasonic GF I), just not any that were cropped.  Others have used 1 inch sensor cameras with very good lenses.

[ortho]

On 30/03/2020 at 13:38, Sally R said:

Hi Ortho! Welcome to Alamy. I don't think the sensor size on your D60 should be a problem at all. Most of the images I have submitted have been taken with a Nikon D5200, and just checking the specs that sensor is even slightly smaller than the D60. I've also uploaded images I took with my previous Nikon which was a D3000, another crop sensor.

 

So the sensor size on the D60 itself will not lead you to fail QC. It will be more important that images are in focus and meet Alamy's quality requirements, including checking for dust sensor spots, chromatic aberration etc. You can see the aspects that Alamy looks at here: https://www.alamy.com/contributors/alamy-how-to-pass-qc.pdf

 

A few of my older images have been taken with the Nikon 18-55mm kit lens, and these were accepted, so again, I don't think the lens in itself would be an issue either.

 

Unfortunately the links you've provided there aren't hyperlinked. Is it possible to post them in as a straight copy of the URL? Someone else here might be able to advise the best way to post the images.

 

As for ISO, there are a few factors to consider. The quality of ISO settings can vary from camera to camera. I have had images accepted at ISO 800, so they can be ok. It depends quite a bit on exposure. If an image is already a bit under-exposed, then quite likely ISO 800 might be a problem. If you do try to reduce noise in post processing the main thing is to check how much it is affecting sharpness, as it can have an impact on this. From what I understand, and I haven't done this myself, you can reduce noise some degree by downsampling the resolution. I have not tried this myself though, so I can't comment from experience.

 

Apart from your initial submissions, Alamy spot check rather than look at every single image. So the onus is very much on the contributor to make a decision about the quality of the image. If you do have one fail, then all in the same batch will fail. I had one fail early on for an image being soft, and you quickly learn to develop a sense of what is required. So if you have one or two failures early on just see it as a learning curve.

 

Others may have more feedback to give. All the best!

Sally

 

On 30/03/2020 at 15:22, MDM said:

Sally's answer is very much on the ball so I'll just add a couple of thoughts. You just have to make sure your images are a minimum size of 17MB or just under 6MP to pass Alamy QC. It has nothing to do with whether the picture was taken on a full frame or crop sensor camera but has a lot to do with how much you crop. If you shot raw in the first place then you have a lot more leeway to reduce noise in Lightroom. One thing that can be very helpful in both sharpening and noise reduction is to downsize the image when exporting the JPEG from Lightroom or in Photoshop so keeping it at or above 6MP (or 17MB) is the goal. Pixel dimensions of 3000x2000 on an uncropped image are fine.

 

Finally Dropbox is a great place to upload full size images if you want a proper appraisal. It even allows you to upload raw images. There is no point in uploading images to a site that alters the images.

 

On 30/03/2020 at 21:38, MizBrown said:

I've had photos taken with a micro 4/3rd 10 or 12 MP camera pass QC (Panasonic GF I), just not any that were cropped.  Others have used 1 inch sensor cameras with very good lenses.

 

Hi all,

 

Many thanks for your replies and helpful insights.

 

Sally - That's good to know. I wanted to be certain this was the case prior to submitting. I've added straight hyperlinks so hopefully you can see the images now? Although not at 100% so may need to follow the link. I'll add Dropbox links also as MDM suggested.

 

I'll experiment a little in Lightroom with the noise reduction but from looking at the third photo zoomed in, what do you think about the noise? Needs very slight adjustment, or ok as it is?

 

MDM - Thanks. I was getting a bit confused with Alamy's 17MB requirements. I realise now this is the open file size, and the majority of my images on the D60 are 2500 x 3700 px. I always shoot in RAW (except a recent blunder when I accidentally changed to JPEG without realising!) Not an important shoot thankfully.

 

Below is the ISO 800 shot Dropbox link. hopefully it works ok and you can view at 100%? Any insights on the quality you can give would be appreciated.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bhryk6cezwv1ue5/Turners-House-Twickenham-E-W-158-0850.JPG?dl=0

 

Many thanks.

[Colin Woods]

I would say its fine as it is. I have uploaded images with more noise than that and have never had a problem. The link works and I was looking at 100%.

[ortho]

7 hours ago, Colin Woods said:

I would say its fine as it is. I have uploaded images with more noise than that and have never had a problem. The link works and I was looking at 100%.

Thanks Colin! 

[MDM]

I agree with the others that the image would not fail QC for noise although downsizing it to 3000 pixels on the long side decrease the noise to being almost invisible. 

 

In terms of the overall image I think there are a few issues although I don't think these would cause QC failure. However, seeing as you asked, I might as well make a few comments. You were presumably handholding and using maximum aperture on the kit zoom lens which has led to the banister and part of the stairs in the foreground being competely out of focus. I guess even with a tripod and a smaller aperture (f11 not smaller) it would be difficult to get the whole image in focus with the lens you used but it would be an excellent subject for focus stackinh (see nearby thread).  

 

Also the lens used is probably not the best optically wide open as this has led to a lot of softness towards the edges in the background. The D610 is an excellent camera and capable of producing really high quality images so I would suggest getting a 24mm prime if you are doing a lot of pictures like this to really do justice to the camera. You can pick up secondhand Nikon primes pretty cheaply secondhand so a 50mm FX format would be good as well (or a good quality 24-70 FX zoom but the kit lens on this camera is never going to allow you to realise its potential).

[Colin Woods]

1 hour ago, MDM said:

but the kit lens on this camera is never going to allow you to realise its potential

Absolutely. I was just commenting on the noise question, but to the OP - start to save up to buy the very best lenses that you can. Digital cameras come and go but your lenses, looked after, will last you a lifetime. My lenses are

 

Tamron 15-30mm f2,8 stunning

Nikon24-120mm f4    very good and as this range is so useful I can forgive it its occasional weaknesses

Nikon70-200mm f4  Stunning

Nikon 50mm f1,8 super sharp and a snip at a couple of hundred dollars

Nion 60mm f2,8 macro superb

 

Don't fall into the trap of buying cheap to get your lens a bit quicker, cheap lenses will just let you down. A set of good lenses is a big investment. Don't overlook the third party companies like Sigma and Tamron as they are making great lenses now.

 

And don't forget that this forum is a generous source of great practical information, so if you want opinions on a lens you will get it.

 

[MDM]

1 hour ago, Colin Woods said:

Absolutely. I was just commenting on the noise question, but to the OP - start to save up to buy the very best lenses that you can. Digital cameras come and go but your lenses, looked after, will last you a lifetime. My lenses are

 

Tamron 15-30mm f2,8 stunning

Nikon24-120mm f4    very good and as this range is so useful I can forgive it its occasional weaknesses

Nikon70-200mm f4  Stunning

Nikon 50mm f1,8 super sharp and a snip at a couple of hundred dollars

Nion 60mm f2,8 macro superb

 

Don't fall into the trap of buying cheap to get your lens a bit quicker, cheap lenses will just let you down. A set of good lenses is a big investment. Don't overlook the third party companies like Sigma and Tamron as they are making great lenses now.

 

And don't forget that this forum is a generous source of great practical information, so if you want opinions on a lens you will get it.

 

 

Yes I definitely agree Colin. In the days of film it used to be that the lens was the most important factor in determining image quality but nowadays both the sensor and the lens rare equally important. There is no point in having a great camera with a poor lens and vice versa.
 

The sensors in all the full frame Nikon cameras have been world class now for several years going back to the D800 at least if not the D700. Putting a  heap kit lens on one does not do justice to the capabilities of the sensor. 

 

That 50mm 1.8 you mention is an incredible lens for the price. For anyone buying Nikon lenses in the UK I would highly recommend Grays of Westminster for very competitive prices on new stuff and a huge collection of secondhand lenses. 
 

A really great thing about Nikon F fit lenses is that they will continue to work into the future with an adapter as well as things go more towards mirrorless so they are an excellent long term investment. In fact even non-stabilised lenses will work as stabilised with the in-body stabilisation in these new cameras. 

[Allan Bell]

Even Samyang are producing some good lenses now.

 

Allan

 

[M.Chapman]

Looking at all the images posted.

 

Southbank Centre - Looks very good to me. That's a pretty good kit lens (at that aperture and focal length anyway).

Barbara Hepworth sculpture - slightly soft in the centre, the focal  point appears to be slightly closer than the sculpture

Turner's House - a lot noisier than I would normally submit and a little CA or fringing at bottom centre

 

The noise and CA/fringing would be easy to fix in LR or PS.

 

Mark

 

[M.Chapman]

Delete (double post)

Edited April 1, 2020 by M.Chapman

[Mr Standfast]

Ortho,

 

Don't be scared by the occasional QC fail, it's all part of the Alamy Learning Experience. We've all had them and it's a how we've learnt where the limits are.

 

Good Luck,

 

James