Unreported sale? Your experience please

[Adrian Seal]

Hello , RE Image ......

I noticed that an image of mine was published in the London Metro newspaper on January 7th 2020. Todays date is February 17th 2020.

I am frustrated that this sale has not been reported at least on the contributor portal almost 6 weeks after publication. This is a totally unacceptable length of time, irrespective of any deal that you may have for regular bulk image buyers.

I have purposely not contacted you before today in the vein hope that this sale would / should have been reported by now.

I don’t think its fair, reasonable or even transparent that had I not noticed my image in the paper that I and Alamy would be denied the pitiful sale commission due.

What measures are in place to protect contributors from unreported sales , what are the guidelines, how long are your reporting sale guidelines? 

These are questions that should be transparent and understood by your loyal contributors and published for all to see.

I will copy and paste this post on the contributors forum for all to see.

Thank you for your kind attention.

Adrian Seal

[Adrian Seal]

The reply from Alamy;

Hi Adrian

Thanks for your email.

We’ve looked and we do have a relevant download for this usage but some of our editorial customers report usages to us over a period of time. If you don’t see the sale appear in your account within 3 months of the usage date then please let us know so we can chase this up for you.

Kind regards,
Ellie

Alamy Contributor Relations

 

My reaction:  3 months  are you kidding me, who waits to get for their work after 3 months , personally I think its insulting and quite frankly taking the P***

Edited February 17, 2020 by Adrian Seal

[spacecadet]

The earliest you can usually expect a NS sale to be reported is the end of the month following, i.e. the end of this month. Don't bother Alamy with it for 3 months.

These are the facts of life.

[spacecadet]

Just now, Adrian Seal said:

The reply from Alamy;

Hi Adrian

Thanks for your email.

We’ve looked and we do have a relevant download for this usage but some of our editorial customers report usages to us over a period of time. If you don’t see the sale appear in your account within 3 months of the usage date then please let us know so we can chase this up for you.

Kind regards,
Ellie

Alamy Contributor Relations

 

My reaction:  3 months  are you kidding me, who waits to get for their work after 3 months , personally I think its insulating and quite frankly taking the P***

The timescale hasn't changed, as you should know having been here 10 years.  I don't know what your main work is but this isn't a retail business. We all have to wait to get paid.

[riccarbi]

26 minutes ago, Adrian Seal said:

I noticed that an image of mine was published in the London Metro newspaper on January 7th 2020. Todays date is February 17th 2020.

I have a photo of mine published on The Guardian on January 10th which is still unreported today. This doesn' t worry me much, It's reasonable that it takes some time for images bought by major publishers (that probably buy hundreds of pictures per year on Alamy) to get reported. What scares me is not to know when I will see this sale, but to discover how much I got from it....;)

Edited February 17, 2020 by riccarbi

[spacecadet]

2 minutes ago, riccarbi said:

I have a photo of mine published on The Guardian on January 10th which is still unreported today. This doesn' t worry me much, It's reasonable that it takes some time for images bought by major publishers (that probably buy hundreds of pictures per year on Alamy) to get reported. What scares me is not when I will see this sale, but to discover how much I got from it....;)

It will report at the end of the month. The Guardian is never late. Mid $, online, maybe low $$ for print.

[zxzoomy]

I don't know about from here but the Guardian never paid much for mine on another, now defunct, agency. But they have millions to choose from so it's a vote of confidence from a great paper. 

[spacecadet]

42 minutes ago, zxzoomy said:

I don't know about from here but the Guardian never paid much for mine on another, now defunct, agency. But they have millions to choose from so it's a vote of confidence from a great paper. 

Ten years ago it was about $40 and now it's about $6.

Just about enough for a corretto at Quadri's if you stand at the bar.

Edited February 17, 2020 by spacecadet

[riccarbi]

21 minutes ago, spacecadet said:

Ten years ago it was about $40 and now it's about $6.

Just about enough for a corretto at Quadri's if you stand at the bar.

Happily, I live in Italy and I can celebrate this sale with no less than TWO correttos for $3 (net), here....;)

Edited February 17, 2020 by riccarbi

[Mr Standfast]

Adrian, this delay is quite normal. The mitigation is to develop a pipeline of business.

Good luck.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Mr Standfast
Typo

[Starsphinx]

I had 3 titles (that I know of) use images of mine mid december - Metro was one and they used 10 images.  I had one sale reported end of January (their price $$ my cut $) so I am fairly sure it was not metro lol.  At the time people said it might take up to 4 months so I am not going to chase until April.  Having said that I do have screen shots of all the uses I know about - just in case.

[shearwater]

I have found three pending sales from 2019:

- two of them, published in May and July, supposedly licensed through distribution, and CR tells me that they will be reported at the end of february 🙄

- another one, a direct sale published in august, hasn't appear in my account sales too 😡

 

That is my actual experienced in unreported sales...so patience and zen exercises. 

As Mr Standfast says...pipeline business should be a more comforting answer.

 

Edited February 17, 2020 by shearwater

[riccarbi]

31 minutes ago, shearwater said:

I have found three pending sales from 2019:

- two of them, published in May and July, supposedly licensed through distribution, and CR tells me that they will be reported at the end of february 🙄

- another one, a direct sale published in august, hasn't appear in my account sales too 😡

 

That is my actual experienced in unreported sales...so patience and zen exercises. 

As Mr Standfast says...pipeline business should be a more comforting answer.

 

While I can understand that to get a sale eventually paid could took months, that's how today's business pipeline works,  I don't understand why that sale could remain unreported for months. If I, as a registered customer, identify a picture on Alamy that fits my needs, agree with terms and price, and eventually download it, the system might be able to record such a sale immediately and report it on my dashboard in a few minutes. If and when such a sale will be actually paid, it's a different matter, admittedly. Yet, why we have to wait for months just to know that someone downloaded one of our pictures?

Edited February 17, 2020 by riccarbi

[shearwater]

13 minutes ago, riccarbi said:

While I can understand that to get a sale eventually paid could took months, that's how today's business pipeline works,  I don't understand why that sale could remain unreported for months. If I, as a registered customer, identify a picture on Alamy that fits my needs, agree with terms and price, and eventually download it, the system might be able to record such a sale immediately and report it on my dashboard in a few minutes. If and when such a sale will be actually paid, it's a different matter, admittedly. Yet, why we have to wait for months just to know that someone downloaded one of our pictures?

++1

 

[meanderingemu]

17 minutes ago, riccarbi said:

While I can understand that to get a sale eventually paid could took months, that's how today's business pipeline works,  I don't understand why that sale could remain unreported for months. If I, as a registered customer, identify a picture on Alamy that fits my needs, agree with terms and price, and eventually download it, the system might be able to record such a sale immediately and report it on my dashboard in a few minutes. If and when such a sale will be actually paid, it's a different matter, admittedly. Yet, why we have to wait for months just to know that someone downloaded one of our pictures?

 

 

well you want some time.  The person doing the photo search might not be the one making the final decision, so you might get 3-4 pictures that would fit, but only one will end up being used.  Downloaded doesn't equal licensed.  Also institutional clients probably don't want to report every time, so periodic reporting makes sense. 

 

if you were a book author, would you expect your publisher to let you know every time a book store sells your book?    (or in fact picks it up and read the first page )

 

 

[Starsphinx]

10 hours ago, meanderingemu said:

 

 

well you want some time.  The person doing the photo search might not be the one making the final decision, so you might get 3-4 pictures that would fit, but only one will end up being used.  Downloaded doesn't equal licensed.  Also institutional clients probably don't want to report every time, so periodic reporting makes sense. 

 

if you were a book author, would you expect your publisher to let you know every time a book store sells your book?    (or in fact picks it up and read the first page )

 

 

No but I would expect the money to be paid at the time every book is sold not have people pick it up take it home read it cover to cover think about it for 12 months and then decide no they do not want to buy it

 

[spacecadet]

25 minutes ago, Starsphinx said:

No but I would expect the money to be paid at the time every book is sold not have people pick it up take it home read it cover to cover think about it for 12 months and then decide no they do not want to buy it

 

The thread is about reporting timescales, not refunds. Anyway this isn't a retail business.

[Adrian Seal]

Just to re-iterate the purpose of my post.

 

What I want to see happen is that image buyers report sales on a more timely basis than is currently the accepted practice. In todays age of disruptive technology, there is no excuse in reporting the sale of an image  later than 1 months time imho.

 

It is absurd that an individual or company wait 3 months for a sale to be reported, and then get paid at a further later date, what sort of a business model is that ??. . Can you pay your mortgage 3 months late, can you pay your creditors and bills after 3 months, of course you can't!! 

 

I'll tell you , its win win for the buyers and lose lose for the contributor and agency.

 

My whole point is that I am not interested in how the industry has previously worked in the past , lets get real, its old fashioned, its not equitable, and above all its not morally right. 

[spacecadet]

3 minutes ago, Adrian Seal said:

wait 3 months for a sale to be reported, and then get paid at a further later date, what sort of a business model is that ??

It's Alamy's and it's not going to change for you.

 

4 minutes ago, Adrian Seal said:

Can you pay your (retail) mortgage 3 months late

As I said, stock is not a retail business.

[Adrian Seal]

2 minutes ago, spacecadet said:

It's Alamy's and it's not going to change for you.

 

As I said, stock is not a retail business.

Spacecadet,  look,  again you miss the whole point here ; Retail or wholesale it doesn't matter.

 

I have run my own multi million pound businesses over the last 30 years. Very very very few businesses offers 3 months payment credit terms period. 30 to 60 days is the norm in my 30 years of running my own businesses. It is recipe for bankruptcy .

[spacecadet]

22 minutes ago, Adrian Seal said:

 

 

I have run my own multi million pound businesses over the last 30 years.

Then I'm a bit surprised you don't get it, but maybe that is the point- it's not your business, it's Alamy's, on Alamy's terms.

[Starsphinx]

3 hours ago, spacecadet said:

The thread is about reporting timescales, not refunds. Anyway this isn't a retail business.

Uh I meant they never paid for it in the first place in order to get the refund.  I know the theory that it can sit on an editors board for 12 months and not really be used but the fact is for those 12 months that editor is benefitting from the work - even if it is just as a comparitor for other work. 

I accept that is how things are - does not mean I dont thing there might be a better way of doing things. 

 

[Starsphinx]

2 hours ago, LawrensonPhoto said:

Has it occurred to you that alamy are able to charge more than the current industry standard for images precisely because of the lenient (lengthy) terms of repayment.

If you want immediate payment i suggest AS or SS!

Well I am back in the position where not only am I seeing a greater total figure from figures from those each month than Alamy provides but the highest single sale is more than the highest single sale here.

I am not convinced here does charge more than the current industry standard when a smaller percentage in other places returns a larger chunk of money on a single image .  (oh and in tune with the thread it was paid on the spot)

[meanderingemu]

55 minutes ago, Starsphinx said:

Uh I meant they never paid for it in the first place in order to get the refund.  I know the theory that it can sit on an editors board for 12 months and not really be used but the fact is for those 12 months that editor is benefitting from the work - even if it is just as a comparitor for other work. 

I accept that is how things are - does not mean I dont thing there might be a better way of doing things. 

 

 

 

and the book store had your book on their table for people to read in that comfortable chair drinking coffee they bought there and store got a cut off.  

 

and the art gallery  had use of your painting to attract clients... i even bought from a gallery that let me take work home for 30 days, see if i like it. if not, full refund.

 

 

Edited February 18, 2020 by meanderingemu

[riccarbi]

3 hours ago, LawrensonPhoto said:

Has it occurred to you that alamy are able to charge more than the current industry standard for images precisely because of the lenient (lengthy) terms of repayment.

If you want immediate payment i suggest AS or SS!

 

Interesting point. Alamy's original strategy was clear. A "quasi-premium"service (something halfway between G and SS) aimed to quasi-premium clients which, compared to MS agencies, provided, on average, better-quality pictures by pro/semipro/advanced amateur photographers (attracted by more convenient commission rates),  lenghy terms of payments, and so on; the cost clients had to pay for that were higher prices per photo (again, compared to MS). Now, how this fits, today, with full-res photos sold "in perpetuity" for $3 gross or even less?
 

Edited February 18, 2020 by riccarbi