Canon slide copying set-up

[Harry Harrison]

You might think about the 60mm EF-S Macro with the 12mm Extension ring. Canon also make the 65mm MP-E Macro but this is very expensive as you are paying for the ability to get to 5x magnification.

 

The thing about Nikon is that their original 55mm Micro-Nikkor and its 60mm successors do have a somewhat legendary reputation, Canon don't really have an equivalent.

 

Note that the 55mm manual focus Micro-Nikkor has to be used with their 27.5mm PK-13 extension tube for 1:1.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Harry Harrison
60mm EF-S is APS-C!

[spacecadet]

1 hour ago, Harry Harrison said:

Colour negatives are a bit of a problem with DSLR scanning,

I have had good results on the Illumitran and have a few here, uploaded as archival, although the 6x6 ones would probably pass QC. I actually use the Sony kit zoom at 55 for 6x6 and 645.

There are all sorts of posts about having to do complicated things with the curves, but I just put an eyedropper on a neutral midtone, as usual. It doesn't cope well with underexposure and sometimes you have to tweak the curves to avoid casts in the shadows.

Here's a favourite (unsold)

and one I should really have asked the Queen about, from 645

Edited January 30, 2020 by spacecadet

[Harry Harrison]

This video shows the ES-1 in use on a Nikon, from start to finish in Lightroom:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_fMcAsAYdc

 

 

[Harry Harrison]

In this thread someone has used the 100mm f2.8 Macro with the ES-1 and describes how he did it:

 

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1185821

 

"I've used the Nikon ES-1 slide adapter on the Canon 100/2.8 (along with other macro lenses); it works fine. I found some cheap 52mm-threaded extension tubes on eBay (marked "for Olympus SP550 UZ 52mm") --- just a hollow metal tube with male/female 52mm threads on each end --- to add the extra extension needed in front of the lens. Then, a 58mm->52mm filter step-down-ring on the front of the lens, and you're set. Illumination by pointing towards a wall lit by a camera flash (manually set to consistently give the right exposure) worked well."

 

 

 

[Harry Harrison]

I think that 52mm ' Macro' extension tubes are probably readily available on ebay even if they have to come from China. A slight concern would be the possibilities of internal reflections.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Harry Harrison

[Harry Harrison]

16 minutes ago, spacecadet said:

There are all sorts of posts about having to do complicated things with the curves

It's often worth it though, even if it is just bringing the end points of the histogram in to almost clip in each of the RGB channels and then moving the mid-points to adjust for any colour cast.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Harry Harrison

[Harry Harrison]

This rather esoteric test of the 55mm Micro-Nikkor is concerned with its ability to photograph coins. It is highly praised. Coins, like slides and negatives need a flat field lens and that isn't necessarily true of all macro lenses where pictures of insects & flowers wouldn't really require it. This Nikon lens and all enlarging lenses are designed for a flat field.

 

http://www.coinimaging.com/nikon_55microais.html

[MDM]

26 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

 

I think I might get the canon macro lens which will be an interesting one to have anyway and then get started. And see about the ES-1 at a later stage. 

 

There are cheaper equivalents and some of the old slides aren't super sharp but feel that paying the extra for an L lens is best.

 

I can spend a bit before the end of the tax year.

 

My reading of the Grays advice was that the 3 inches mentioned was the distance at the front between lens and slide, and the 12 ins of the Canon EF 100 description is measured from the focal plane so probably about right?

 

Yes, good advice will organise a day trip to Norwich before making any decisions.

 

Yes you are right about the closest focus distances. Brain not fully functioning right now. However, the Nikkor 105 micro apparently does not work and it has a 12" closest focus as well so definitely worth checking by trying out. Your best bet might be to go back to the setup that Phil suggests if you are going to buy the Canon lens anyway. Alternatively you could get the Nikkor 55 as in my option 1 above (Grays have several secondhand) as the metering is not really important - I just use trial and error until I get a decent exposure for copying.

 

 

 

37 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

 

Lots of new ones on eBay for around £30-£35, although they are shipped from Japan, so I guess there might be import duty to pay. I could even be tempted to buy one to try on my Lumix G5 with 45mm Elmarit lens, but I'll need a 46-52mm step-up ring.

 

Mark

 

Never bought anything direct from Japan. I presume it is authentic but by the time you pay duty it might not be a lot cheaper than here secondhand. 

[Harry Harrison]

7 minutes ago, MDM said:

the Nikkor 105 micro apparently does not work

I think what they mean is that it doesn't work with the kit supplied, with extra extension rings to move the ES-1 away from the lens I'm sure it could be made to, but why bother when there is the 55/60 mm Micro-Nikkor I suppose. Appreciate you're just using it as an example rather than suggesting it.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Harry Harrison

[Harry Harrison]

44 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

although they are shipped from Japan, so I guess there might be import duty to pay

I've bought things from Japan & China off ebay, relatively low value but I've never had to pay extra and they've always come earlier than promised.

[MDM]

Just now, Harry Harrison said:

I think what they mean is that it doesn't work with the kit supplied, with extra extension rings to move the ES-1 away from the lens I'm sure it could be made to, but why bother when there is the 55/60 mm Micro-Nikkor.

 

 Yes that explains it. I only needed the ES1 and PK-13 extension ring so didn't need to think any further. I think I understand it all now 😀. The 55 deserves its legendary status. It is also incredibly good at distance as well as close up. 

[spacecadet]

41 minutes ago, MDM said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Never bought anything direct from Japan. I presume it is authentic but by the time you pay duty it might not be a lot cheaper than here secondhand. 

The duty free threshhold for personal imports is £135. If the seller lists it as a gift on the CN22 form it may escape VAT as well.

Edited January 30, 2020 by spacecadet

[Chuck Nacke]

4 hours ago, M.Chapman said:

Hi Chuck,

 

Here's one. E9W7G0 - copied using a Panasonic Lumix G5 with 45mm macro lens from medium format (Velvia 50 I think).

 

 

I've not uploaded any 35mm copies yet as most of my 35mm originals just aren't good enough (the film stock is OK but my lenses weren't so good). But I'm currently in process of going through them to find any that might be good enough for Alamy.

 

I've been trying to find a folder where I did some back to back comparisons between my scanner and DSLR copies, but it's proving elusive at the moment. I must have archived it onto another disk . I'll do some more searching and post some 100% crops if I find the folder.

 

Mark

Mark,

 

E9W7G0 is the best example of using a DSLR, but you have taken a MF frame down to 3500x?

 

Keep in mind that all of the chromes and negs that I am working with are journalistic images shot

on location.  Like so many things in life there is more than one way to get to the finish line and I

did find your image interesting.

 

Thanks,

 

Chuck

[Klinger]

17 hours ago, Harry Harrison said:

No, they weren't recommending it, just saying that the results from the Ohnar duplicator weren't as good, best to steer clear of cheap duplicators, and flatbeds for 35mm.

 

Thanks, I think I'm going to try again, prime lens and full frame.

 

I was mostly disappointed because I didn't see the detail I expected and there was grain, plus any imperfection was accented.

 

My opinion is still that most people will be disappointed with the results of trying to scan or duplicate old slides and film. That's only because of the clarity, color and quality of digital cameras at this time, which is far better. The effort of cleaning an image seemed a bit much. However if it was documentary, historic, a scenic that has changed or something that can't be photographed today, of course that lends some value to the conversion to digital.

 

ES-1 will fit on any camera and looks like a good simple option.

[Chuck Nacke]

8 minutes ago, Klinger said:

 

Thanks, I think I'm going to try again, prime lens and full frame.

 

I was mostly disappointed because I didn't see the detail I expected and there was grain, plus any imperfection was accented.

 

My opinion is still that most people will be disappointed with the results of trying to scan or duplicate old slides and film. That's only because of the clarity, color and quality of digital cameras at this time, which is far better. The effort of cleaning an image seemed a bit much. However if it was documentary, historic, a scenic that has changed or something that can't be photographed today, of course that lends some value to the conversion to digital.

 

ES-1 will fit on any camera and looks like a good simple option.

Hey,

 

Like the cars in your photos, Always loved the GT-40,  but you really should put more info in the captions?

 

Chuck

[Harry Harrison]

2 hours ago, Klinger said:

ES-1 will fit on any camera and looks like a good simple option.

It's not quite that simple, it's only designed to fit on the Nikon 55mm or 60mm Micro-Nikkor lenses. You might be able to adapt it to other lenses using various step-down/step-up rings and extension tubes.

[M.Chapman]

6 hours ago, Chuck Nacke said:

Mark,

 

E9W7G0 is the best example of using a DSLR, but you have taken a MF frame down to 3500x?

 

Keep in mind that all of the chromes and negs that I am working with are journalistic images shot

on location.  Like so many things in life there is more than one way to get to the finish line and I

did find your image interesting.

 

Thanks,

 

Chuck

 

Hi Chuck

 

Thanks. Yes you're right I downsized to 3500px be sure of passing Alamy QC. I haven't got access to the RAW of that image at the moment, but I have of this one.

(Now I see it on a white webpage I realise I need to clean the background up, replacement will be uploaded tomorrow).

 

 

The RAW file for this image was taken with Lumix G5 Mirrorless with Elmarit 45mm macro lens is 4608 x 3072pix and looks like this at 12.5% in PS. 

 

 

The film stock is Fuji Velvia 50 120 format.

 

And here's 100% crop from that image.

 

 

Probably fine for Alamy QC without downsizing.

 

I hope that's useful.

 

Mark

 

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by M.Chapman

[geogphotos]

Canon EF Macro 100mm f/2.8.......is half the price of the L equivalent and according to Ken Rockwell a much better lens. ( better = it depends I suppose)

That doesn't seem to make sense to me. 

 

 

[Harry Harrison]

32 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

That doesn't seem to make sense to me. 

Well, he does seem very keen on it, I only mentioned the 'L' version because I assumed it would be better. Phil Crean doesn't say that he's using the 'L' version in fact. 

[Harry Harrison]

Since neither lens will have been designed for slide copying per se it's probably pot luck which will be better for that but the close-ups of Ken Rockwell's watch look pretty impressive.

[John Richmond]

The little Canon 50mm f2.5 macro has a 52mm filter thread and could well work with the ES-1.  It's only 1:2 macro but does 1:1 with a 25mm extension tube.  I've had one for years and it's a nice sharp lens with a flat field even at macro distances - ideal for copy work on my APS-c canon bodies.  With the extension tube fitted working distance is about 3 inches (I could measure it more accurately if needed).  AF is noisy but I use manual most of the time.  Plenty available second hand around the £200 mark.

[MDM]

1 hour ago, Harry Harrison said:

Well, he does seem very keen on it, I only mentioned the 'L' version because I assumed it would be better. Phil Crean doesn't say that he's using the 'L' version in fact. 

Phil is talking about the L version as he says to turn the IS off on a tripod and only the L version has stabilisation. I would not buy a telephoto lens nowadays for a DSLR that didn’t have stabilisation but that almost certainly accounts for the difference in price. Not necessary for copying of course but if you want the lens for other purposes then definitely think about the stabilised one. 
 

John’s idea sounds very sensible and would be the cheapest and most reliable way to set up a copying system with the ES1 for a Canon user starting only with a camera. 

Edited January 30, 2020 by MDM

[Harry Harrison]

43 minutes ago, John Richmond said:

It's only 1:2 macro but does 1:1 with a 25mm extension tube.

I wondered about that, they describe it as a 'Life Size Converter EF' in fact, is that what you used? It has lenses in and seems rather scarce.

 

https://www.castlecameras.co.uk/canon-life-size-converter-ef/p2936

 

The refreshingly honest description on Castle Cameras says:

 

More or less a 1.4x extender combined with a 25mm extension tube designed to produce 1:1 lifesize reproduction when used with the 50mm macro and a full frame EOS. It can be used with other lenses. I read that the AF will hunt even worse than normal so you will find it far better in most situations to pre-focus manually and rock backwards and forwards to keep your subject in focus as you fire the shutter.

It will give a maximum magnification of around 1.7:1 with the EF 100mm L macro.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Harry Harrison

[John Richmond]

Just now, Harry Harrison said:

I wondered about that, they describe it as a 'Life Size Converter EF' in fact, is that what you used? It has lenses in and seems rather scarce.

No, the life size converter is a separate unit that fits between the 50mm lens and body and which seems to combine a teleconverter and extension tube in one package to allow infinity to 1:1 macro focusing travel.  I'm just talking about an ordinary EF 25mm extension tube (I have an normal Canon one).  You lose infinity focus but for slide copying at around 1:1 that hardly matters.

[Harry Harrison]

20 minutes ago, John Richmond said:

I'm just talking about an ordinary EF 25mm extension tube (I have an normal Canon one).  You lose infinity focus but for slide copying at around 1:1 that hardly matters.

Thanks, that sounds like a good solution for Ian then.