Canon slide copying set-up

[MDM]

11 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

 

Yes it would be interesting, maybe we could post the same slide(s) between us and then upload our RAWs for comparison? Maybe Micael (MDM) would be interested in participating too? I'd happily post a slide or two in return for a sight of some RAW files from other setups.

 

Mark

 

Yes sure I'd be happy to take some pics of a few of your slides with my setup though I would prefer to wait a week or two before arranging anything as I still feel very tired. You and Harry if he wants can email me at michaeldavidmurphyphoto@gmail.com if you like and we can arrange something. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Harry Harrison said:

Yes, that's a tantalising prospect, the same setup, the same lens, the same slide(s), different cameras. I don't know anyone with a Nikon 800/810 otherwise I'd be keen to try it myself. If you were to look at the resolution comparisons on DPReview that Wim linked to I can't see any difference between the D800 & D810, there's also the D800E without the anti-aliasing filter. 

 

The lack of (or disablement of) an anti-aliasing filter does make a definite visible difference in terms of sharpness. I was astonished when I first got a D800E a few months after getting a D800 back in 2012. I will always remember David Kilpatrick describing the D800E as eyewateringly sharp which influenced me to buy one and I did not regret it. However, differences are only noticable at 1:1 and would not be significant or even visible in terms of copying slides where the image quality is poor in all cases in comparison to taking a picture of a scene so a D800 would be more than adequate.  There is no visible difference in sharpness between the D810 and the D800E as far as I could ever tell.

 

[Harry Harrison]

3 minutes ago, MDM said:

The lack of (or disablement of) an anti-aliasing filter does make a definite visible difference in terms of sharpness. I was astonished when I first got a D800E a few months after getting a D800 back in 2012. I will always remember David Kilpatrick describing the D800E as eyewateringly sharp which influenced me to buy one and I did not regret it. However, differences are only noticable at 1:1 and would not be significant or even visible in terms of copying slides where the image quality is poor in all cases in comparison to taking a picture of a scene so a D800 would be more than adequate.  There is no visible difference in sharpness between the D810 and the D800E as far as I could ever tell.

Nothing like first-hand experience!

[Harry Harrison]

6 minutes ago, MDM said:

Yes sure I'd be happy to take some pics of a few of your slides with my setup though I would prefer to wait a week or two before arranging anything as I still feel very tired. You and Harry if he wants can email me at michaeldavidmurphyphoto@gmail.com if you like and we can arrange something. 

Happy to do that, maybe I'll root out a slide or two, scan them to the best of my ability (?) and send them on to Mark first. I'll need a bit of time before I'm quite ready to do that though, a week maybe.

[Harry Harrison]

41 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

Yes it would be interesting, maybe we could post the same slide(s) between us and then upload our RAWs for comparison? Maybe Micael (MDM) would be interested in participating too? I'd happily post a slide or two in return for a sight of some RAW files from other setups.

Happy to take part, I'll search out some suitable slides, scan them, ideally using the 3 methods open to me, and then arrange to send them to you. I probably can't do it until the end of next week though but it will be interesting.

Edited April 25, 2020 by Harry Harrison

[MDM]

17 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

Happy to take part, I'll search out some suitable slides, scan them, ideally using the 3 methods open to me, and then arrange to send them to you. I probably can't do it until the end of next week though but it will be interesting.

 

No hurry but do get in touch. Should be fun and interesting. 

[M.Chapman]

I'm happy to get the ball rolling if you like. I'll select a couple of 35mm slides one for sharpness the other for dynamic range and copy them with my Lumix G7 + Leica Elmarit 45mm macro lens. I'll put RAWs on my Google Drive and send you a link and will put both slides in an envelope and post to Harry early next week for him to scan/digitise and to add his slides to.

 

Harry, if you're happy with this, can you let me know your postal and email addresses using the contact button on my Fine Art America page here.

 

Is it best to carry on further discussions about this exercise by personal email, rather than clogging up this thread? And then maybe share the results here when we've finished?

 

Mark

Edited April 25, 2020 by M.Chapman

[MDM]

Sounds good Mark. I have put an email address above if you want to email me directly anyway. 

[M.Chapman]

On 25/04/2020 at 11:33, Harry Harrison said:

Happy to take part, I'll search out some suitable slides, scan them, ideally using the 3 methods open to me, and then arrange to send them to you. I probably can't do it until the end of next week though but it will be interesting.

 

Hi Harry, still waiting for you to let me know your postal address and email for swapping slides. You can contact me using the contact button on my Fine Art America page here. Maybe you've already tried and there's a glitch in the system?

 

Mark

[Harry Harrison]

27 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

Hi Harry, still waiting for you to let me know your postal address and email for swapping slides. You can contact me using the contact button on my Fine Art America page here. Maybe you've already tried and there's a glitch in the system?

Sorry Mark, I will do as you suggest, thanks for reminding me. I'm still not in scanning mode but I'll try and get myself in a position to get setup on Friday, I think it's going to rain so that'll drive me inside.

 

Edit: No, actually I didn't see your post above about contacting via FAA, your suggestions all sound fine.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Harry Harrison

[M.Chapman]

56 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

Sorry Mark, I will do as you suggest, thanks for reminding me. I'm still not in scanning mode but I'll try and get myself in a position to get setup on Friday, I think it's going to rain so that'll drive me inside.

 

Edit: No, actually I didn't see your post above about contacting via FAA, your suggestions all sound fine.

 

This "exercise" has been useful already. I've been determined to take the best shot of the one or two test slides I can before posting them, and so have been rechecking all my settings on my setup. As a result I've discovered two settings buried deep in my Lumix G7 camera's overly complex menu system.

 

1) Switch to extended ISO allows me to set a lower ISO of 100ASA (previously the minimum was 200ASA) , hopefully 100ASA will be lower noise

2) There's a "shutter delay" setting. I'd never understood this before, I thought it was just another self-timer, but it's more subtle, I've set it to 2 seconds. In mechanical shutter mode the sequence is now as follows

 Press shutter button

 Aperture closes down to F/8 and shutter closes to block out light to sensor

 2 second delay (to allow vibration to die down)

 Shutter opens to take shot (hopefully this makes less vibration than closing the shutter)

 Shutter closes

 

I'll be doing some more tests tomorrow to see if these changes have further reduced the noise I was seeing in shadows, and removed/reduced vibration blur in mechanical shutter mode. Hopefully I'll complete this tomorrow and can then post the slide(s) the day after.

 

Mark

Edited April 27, 2020 by M.Chapman

[Harry Harrison]

1 hour ago, M.Chapman said:

This "exercise" has been useful already. I've been determined to take the best shot of the one or two test slides I can before posting them, and so have been rechecking all my settings on my setup.

Yes, it does concentrate the mind somewhat, I did a lot of A-B testing of my different lenses etc., or between flash & LED so hopefully I won't be doing all that again but I will try and use my 2 different scanners and compare it with the DSLR scanning with my 5D Mk.2. I have one test slide that I use all the time but I'll seek out another that has more areas of continuous tone and hopefully extreme highlight & shadow.

 

I've got a pretty solid way of supporting the camera, previously on a copy stand and now on a Bowens Illumitran and I could get equally good results from flash at 1/160 sec and the LED at 1/4 sec at the same aperture of f11, but I use flash all the time because I was always worried about camera shake even though I use mirror lock-up and 2s delay.

 

[spacecadet]

10 hours ago, Harry Harrison said:

now on a Bowens Illumitran

Welcome to the Way of the Tran.

[Harry Harrison]

3 hours ago, spacecadet said:

Welcome to the Way of the Tran.

Thank you, I love the name, very sixties sci-fi.

[geogphotos]

29 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

Thank you, I love the name, very sixties sci-fi.

 

 

I thought it was an Eddie Izzard reference 😜

[Harry Harrison]

3 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

I thought it was an Eddie Izzard reference 😜

They probably couldn't have got away with it now.

[spacecadet]

Sorry,  omitted the apostrophe, as in 'Tran.

But that would have spoiled the joke.🤩

[Harry Harrison]

On 25/04/2020 at 20:08, M.Chapman said:

Harry, if you're happy with this, can you let me know your postal and email addresses using the contact button on my Fine Art America page here.

Have done so.

[Harry Harrison]

Not sure anyone will be in the market for this but I'll put it here anway. A review of the 'Kaiser FilmCopy Vario' 35mm and medium format film holder for DSLR copying.

 

https://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/reviews/accessories/kaiser-filmcopy-vario-kit-review

 

it's pretty pricy once you've bought all the holders but it looks well made. Nothing really about it to appeal to a 35mm ES-1 or ES-2 user.

[M.Chapman]

On 28/04/2020 at 14:54, Harry Harrison said:

Have done so.

 

Thanks. I've finally solved the vibration problem (see next post) so I'm copying three test slides now.

 

Mark

[M.Chapman]

I've now solved the vibration problem and so can use the mechanical shutter for copying. I wanted to do this because the E-Shutter on Lumix G7 (and possibly other cameras) causes extra noise in the image (see my earlier posts in this thread here and here ). The solution to the problem was two-fold.

 

Firstly, I found that there's a setting hidden deep in the camera's menu system that allows a timed delay to be set between the mechanical shutter closing (ready to make the exposure) and reopening to make the exposure. This reduces the vibration, but didn't eliminate it as the shutter still has to snap open to start the exposure.

 

Secondly,  after prodding at various points on my setup, whilst watching the live view image of the slide, I found that the rubber insert in my Manfrotto quick release plate was just not rigid enough. So I removed the rubber insert and am now clamping metal edges of the quick release plate directly onto the metal base of the camera. This has almost  totally eliminated the vibration.

 

My setup looks like this. The lightbox is an LED B&Q downlighter (£8) set into a "Tuppaware" box with a weight inside and non-slip feet. The slide is raised off the LED diffuser surface (so that the diffuser and any dust on it is out of focus. The slide locates against 3 pins to make it quick to swap slides. A small mirror is used for alignment. Stray light is masked with card and I usually copy in a dimly lit room. The 35mm slide mount flips out of the way to allow medium format to be copied.

 

 

When I was encountering vibration problems I considered swapping to using an ES-1 with extension tube adaptors. But, I wasn't if sure this would fix it (as I suspect the vibration maybe affecting the "floating" imaging stabiliser lens element inside my Lumix 45mm macro lens). Also my current setup can be used to copy medium format transparencies by simply raising the centre column and swapping the slide mount.

 

Mark

Edited April 30, 2020 by M.Chapman

[Harry Harrison]

May as well tag this on to the end of this thread. A short blog post about using the (finally available) pixl-latr multi-format film holder for scanning film, colour negative in this case.

 

https://pixl-latr.com/my-first-time-using-pixl-latr-a-no-instructions-introduction-by-josh/

 

The pixl-latr is £40 from here.

[MDM]

19 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said:

May as well tag this on to the end of this thread. A short blog post about using the (finally available) pixl-latr multi-format film holder for scanning film, colour negative in this case.

 

https://pixl-latr.com/my-first-time-using-pixl-latr-a-no-instructions-introduction-by-josh/

 

The pixl-latr is £40 from here.

 

Unless I am missing something, it does not resolve the problem of having the film plane parallel to the plane if the sensor which is a fundamental requirement for copying film. For 35mm this is where the ES1 or 2 are unsurpassed for accuracy and convenience. For larger formats some sort of rail system would still be highly desirable or one is left messing about trying to line things up perfectly. 

[MDM]

7 minutes ago, MDM said:

 

Unless I am missing something, it does not resolve the problem of having the film plane parallel to the plane of the sensor which is a fundamental requirement for copying film. For 35mm this is where the ES1 or 2 are unsurpassed for accuracy and convenience. For larger formats some sort of rail system would still be highly desirable or one is left messing about trying to line things up perfectly. 

 

[Harry Harrison]

2 minutes ago, MDM said:

For 35mm this is where the ES1 or 2 are unsurpassed for accuracy and convenience

Big fan of the ES-1 or ES-2 even though I don't need one, but this is for other formats as well and so a mirror would sort the alignment easily. For those without enlarger negative stages or bodged up DIY efforts this seems to be a well thought out and inexpensive product for copying all formats up to 5"x4",  particularly since he (Hamish Gill) is apparently starting work on sourcing a suitable light source/panel to go with it. The 'Digitizaliza' holders from Lomography are another alternative.

[geogphotos]

Is there an equivalent of ES-1 or ES-2 for medium format 6x6?

 

I've been copying using the macro lens and fixing the slide to Lightbox using its plastic border grip ( not sure what the proper name is) and a bit of sellotape on the other film edge, and then squaring it up using Live View. Obviously not the best way to be doing it but a lot quicker than scanning.

 

 

The other Heath Robinson method that comes to mid is to use the scanner film holder and use a pile of books to make a tower with. a slot for the transparency holder to be straight, have the Lightbox behind, and camera on tripod again using Live View to get a square within the frame. .

Edited July 31, 2020 by geogphotos