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Commercial or not?


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Selling prints, greetings cards, postcards with people in shot (not main subject). Commercial use or not? I say not, but is there an official line?

 

Alan

 

Strictly speaking, perhaps too strictly speaking, I would say yes, I am quite sure, however, that many postcards are sold with unreleased people on them.

 

Sometimes you distinguish a commercial image in a magazine from an editorial by whether it is on the front page and kind of advertising for the mag in a rack - or placed inside the magazine and thus being a true editorial image. I would say the postcards are advertising for themselves.

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I am pretty sure these usages are considered commercial use. Editorial is when the photo is used as an illustration to an article, story, news, etc.

If it is used for advertising products, or sold as the main product (such as prints) it is my understanding that you need model and property releases (whatever is applicable).

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My understanding is that pix used for greetings cards, postcards etc are not classed as commercial. If the pix are used to promote or sell something then that crosses the line from editorial to commercial. Either way if they have people or property without release then they should be RM. I have every confidence that someone will correct me if I have got it wrong - thanks in advance!

 

dov

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I am pretty sure these usages are considered commercial use. Editorial is when the photo is used as an illustration to an article, story, news, etc.

If it is used for advertising products, or sold as the main product (such as prints) it is my understanding that you need model and property releases (whatever is applicable).

 

I would be prepared to bet that the vast majority of postcards in the UK with people have NOT hat PR or Mr signed by anyone in them. (in fact, I know this).

nj

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My understanding is that pix used for greetings cards, postcards etc are not classed as commercial. If the pix are used to promote or sell something then that crosses the line from editorial to commercial. Either way if they have people or property without release then they should be RM.

 

That's how I read the situation. However, while licensing an image through Alamy for, say, postcard use would give some protection via Alamy's terms provided the pic is annotated correctly, if I sell a print on my website I'm on my own.

 

Alan

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That's how I read the situation. However, while licensing an image through Alamy for, say, postcard use would give some protection via Alamy's terms provided the pic is annotated correctly, if I sell a print on my website I'm on my own.

Why only "some protection" - we are many more or less leaning on this being our protection.

 

You could make the same statements on your own site, which perhaps would give you some protection :)

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That's how I read the situation. However, while licensing an image through Alamy for, say, postcard use would give some protection via Alamy's terms provided the pic is annotated correctly, if I sell a print on my website I'm on my own.

Why only "some protection" - we are many more or less leaning on this being our protection.

 

You could make the same statements on your own site, which perhaps would give you some protection :)

 

Well, I used the term "some" because although I believe that marking an image as RM without releases protects me from legal action, I don't believe this has ever been tested in court, has it?

 

The difference between Alamy's terms and any statement that I put on my own site is that if I am selling the prints, I am the publisher. Alamy can say effectively to its customer "If you publish this image you are responsible for any issues arising from its use". Saying that to myself isn't going to give me the same reassurance!

 

Alan

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I am starting to think that the "Editorial" label is a little misleading and I think "non-commercial" might be a better label to apply. For instance other stock sites will only accept images as editorial if they are "newsworthy" and require date and location captioning like you would put on a press release.

 

As for the original question I think it would fall into the category of "non-commercial" but purely from a personal perspective I'd feel a little uncomfortable (from an etiquette point of view) selling pictures as art with identifiable people.

 

Of course another way to look at it is - as photographers and agencies - we are selling "editorial" images which is still in itself a commercial activity (and if you need to shoot inside a publicly accessible building it will be probably be deemed by its managers to be commercial activity with respect to gaining permission). If we sell a picture of a famous person to a newspaper to accompany a news article we are doing so to make money and pictures of Royals, President Obama or Nelson Mandela for example are in frequent demand and are a good earner for those who take them.

 

So I do think this is something that, as an industry, we need to establish greater clarity on. Of course it doesn't help that through e-commerce we are selling globally and different jurisdictions have different rules. As an example the Eiffel Tower can be use commercially shot in daylight without a property release but not with the lights at night - this is a matter of French law and I'm not sure if the restriction also applies to art photography or not.

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Hello everyone, I'm new in the stock photography market and some things are still a little obscure. Plus, taking pictures it's an hobby.

 

I'd like to take some automotive photography but I imagine that I need property release from a Car Company for putting a photograph here with their car pictured (immediately recogniziable, with its emblem), don't I?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Davide.

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