Murals and the Public Domain

[John Mitchell]

These are questions that continue to confuse me, and I'm hoping that someone here knows the answer. Are murals painted on the sides of buildings, walls, etc. that can be viewed from public spaces (e.g. the street) always considered part of the public domain? That is to say, can there be copyright issues when photographing "public art" murals and selling the resulting images if the artist is (or isn't) still living?

[Niels Quist]

That is to say, can there be copyright issues when photographing "public art" murals and selling the resulting images if the artist is (or isn't) still living?

 

I'd say there could and there could not be copyright issues. But selling as RM and ticking that the image contains property that may need a release and that you don't have it, should solve your part of the problem.

[wiskerke]

Freedom of panorama different in different countries.

 

wim

[Robert M Estall]

You will not get a "black and white" clear answer to this. There are lots of these created by volunteer groups who are very unlikely to give you grief, but there are bound to be some artists who will defend their moral rights. Hey, we photographers might be among those who defend their copyrights! The best practical approach would be to be sure to include a substantial amount of context. A garden foreground, a slightly oblique angle to show some of the rest of the building, a street with a few pedestrians. Don't claim to have a property release of course.

 

There was a high profile case in the states a few years ago where an artist had created a work of art in a public space involving footprints in cement. A lot of money was involved and the artist won. My wife used to do picture research for RD in UK. They published in a book an interesting trompe l'oeil on the side of a house in a Suffolk village which included a bit more than just the artwork. The artist spotted the use and went for them. They paid up but it wasn't huge.

 

Northern Ireland has a lot of "conflict" art on walls and if I were in that part of the world, I would gather up a clutch of those images and be pretty confident that nobody would object.

 

As ever, as photographers, we should be bringing something to the party other than a straight copy

[wiskerke]

If you are in any doubt, just read paragraphs 4 and 5 of your contract with Alamy ;-)

 

wim

[John Mitchell]

Thanks very much for the feedback. Thoughtful and useful answers given that copyright laws everywhere are fuzzy. The main reason I'm asking about this is that an artist in the USA contacted me recently after finding a photo of her mural that was for sale on my PhotoShelter website. She claimed that only she has the right to reproduce it even though the mural is on the side of a building and is easily viewable from the street. Ironically, what initially attracted my attention to her mural was a group of tourists snapping photos of it. Not wanting to upset the artist, I have removed the image from my photo website. However, it is still on Alamy. I've ticked "no" for availability of a property release and have set restrictions to allow for editorial use only. But now I'm thinking I should delete the image from Alamy as well. Any further thoughts/advice on this?

 

P.S. I should add that the image is a closeup of a small part of the mural. I do usually try to add context as Robert suggested above, but I didn't this time.

[wiskerke]

Thanks very much for the feedback. Thoughtful and useful answers given that copyright laws everywhere are fuzzy. The main reason I'm asking about this is that an artist in the USA contacted me recently after finding a photo of her mural that was for sale on my PhotoShelter website. She claimed that only she has the right to reproduce it even though the mural is on the side of a building and is easily viewable from the street. Ironically, what initially attracted my attention to her mural was a group of tourists snapping photos of it. Not wanting to upset the artist, I have removed the image from my photo website. However, it is still on Alamy. I've ticked "no" for availability of a property release and have set restrictions to allow for editorial use only. But now I'm thinking I should delete the image from Alamy as well. Any further thoughts/advice on this?

 

P.S. I should add that the image is a closeup of a small part of the mural. I do usually try to add context as Robert suggested above, but I didn't this time.

 

Have you read that link?

There is no broad Freedom of Panorama in the US. The artist is right. Remember the dancesteps in Seattle? Google it. In the US it can be pretty expensive.

 

wim

 

edit: typo

[John Mitchell]

 

Thanks very much for the feedback. Thoughtful and useful answers given that copyright laws everywhere are fuzzy. The main reason I'm asking about this is that an artist in the USA contacted me recently after finding a photo of her mural that was for sale on my PhotoShelter website. She claimed that only she has the right to reproduce it even though the mural is on the side of a building and is easily viewable from the street. Ironically, what initially attracted my attention to her mural was a group of tourists snapping photos of it. Not wanting to upset the artist, I have removed the image from my photo website. However, it is still on Alamy. I've ticked "no" for availability of a property release and have set restrictions to allow for editorial use only. But now I'm thinking I should delete the image from Alamy as well. Any further thoughts/advice on this?

 

P.S. I should add that the image is a closeup of a small part of the mural. I do usually try to add context as Robert suggested above, but I didn't this time.

 

Have you read that link?

There is no broad Freedom of Panorama in the US. The artist is right. Remember the dancesteps in Seattle? Google it. In the US it can be pretty expensive.

 

wim

 

edit: typo

 

Thanks, Wim. I did read the link to the Wikipedia article. However, I'm still not totally clear on what the situation is in the USA.

 

By the sounds of it, though, I had better request that Alamy delete the mural photo in question.

[MariaJ]

There's mention of copyright for murals (and many other types of creative works) in this link:

 

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Copyright_rules_by_subject_matter#Murals

[spacecadet]

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[wiskerke]

There's mention of copyright for murals (and many other types of creative works) in this link:

 

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Copyright_rules_by_subject_matter#Murals

 

Great link! Makes one even more cautious.

 

wim

[John Mitchell]

 

There's mention of copyright for murals (and many other types of creative works) in this link:

 

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Copyright_rules_by_subject_matter#Murals

 

Great link! Makes one even more cautious.

 

wim

 

Yes, very useful link indeed. However, the article doesn't seem to specify how old a mural has to be in order for it to enter the public domain.

[spacecadet]

 

 

There's mention of copyright for murals (and many other types of creative works) in this link:

 

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Copyright_rules_by_subject_matter#Murals

 

Great link! Makes one even more cautious.

 

wim

 

Yes, very useful link indeed. However, the article doesn't seem to specify how old a mural has to be in order for it to enter the public domain.

It's whatever the duration of copyright is in the particular country- here, artist's lifetime plus 70 years, usually.

[John Mitchell]

 

 

 

 

There's mention of copyright for murals (and many other types of creative works) in this link:

 

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Copyright_rules_by_subject_matter#Murals

Great link! Makes one even more cautious.

 

wim

Yes, very useful link indeed. However, the article doesn't seem to specify how old a mural has to be in order for it to enter the public domain.

It's whatever the duration of copyright is in the particular country- here, artist's lifetime plus 70 years, usually.

Thanks. So I guess the © duration for murals is the same as for other 2D works such as regular paintings. By "here" I gather you mean the UK. Correct?

[John Mitchell]

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