Harry Harrison Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Allan Bell said: I am going to remove "fancy" from the original image. Sorry Allan, I was thinking aloud really and I genuinely hadn't spotted 'fancy' until that moment, or at least its possible significance in the light of Wim's research. Maybe I should try adding 'fancy' to some of mine to see what happens! I somehow doubt that we'll get to the bottom of it entirely and at the end of the day I suppose it doesn't really matter. I think the philosophy behind it somewhat questionable and that's what interests me more. There's more than a touch of the Big Brother about it but we'll never get to know about that either, perhaps they have to do it to comply with some regulations somewhere, the US perhaps. Who'd have thought that you can't find any images that contain the word 'minor' in the keywords unless you have an account and you're logged in, astounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Bell Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 42 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said: Sorry Allan, I was thinking aloud really and I genuinely hadn't spotted 'fancy' until that moment, or at least its possible significance in the light of Wim's research. Maybe I should try adding 'fancy' to some of mine to see what happens! I somehow doubt that we'll get to the bottom of it entirely and at the end of the day I suppose it doesn't really matter. I think the philosophy behind it somewhat questionable and that's what interests me more. There's more than a touch of the Big Brother about it but we'll never get to know about that either, perhaps they have to do it to comply with some regulations somewhere, the US perhaps. Who'd have thought that you can't find any images that contain the word 'minor' in the keywords unless you have an account and you're logged in, astounding. Don't be sorry Harry you have sparked my interest again and I am looking forward to doing a bit more research myself. Having to wait till tomorrow for the results of todays changes is a bit of a bind though. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Bell Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Well removing the word"fancy" from image 2M7MDWK made no difference still did not appear when logged out. Will put "fancy" back in the keywords over the weekend and will remove "glamour" to see if that is the culprit. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Harrison Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 50 minutes ago, Allan Bell said: Well removing the word"fancy" from image 2M7MDWK made no difference still did not appear when logged out. Will put "fancy" back in the keywords over the weekend and will remove "glamour" to see if that is the culprit. I can see the basis for hugely popular TV Quiz show here. Which of the following keywords will give 0 results when not logged in to Alamy? We have 'minor' but yes, we also have 'glamour'! That is a Pointless answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 verboten bare (as in bare trees, in this case in front of The White House) wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Harrison Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 37 minutes ago, wiskerke said: (as in bare trees, in this case in front of The White House) I get 16 images for 'bare' when logged out, but all golfing images with 'barely missing' in the caption, 589,933 when logged in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Harry Harrison said: I get 16 images for 'bare' when logged out, but all golfing images with 'barely missing' in the caption, 589,933 when logged in. Here I get: bare logged in: 571,916 logged out: 0 missing: 100% Searches for bare and minor were many for the rolling year. Minor League Baseball? Ok not that many, most were indeed for the cute Morris cars. Lots of plants also. Should we ban all Latin? wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 5 hours ago, Harry Harrison said: I get 16 images for 'bare'** when logged out, but all golfing images with 'barely** missing' HOLD ON. not following this thread but... went to end of this thread, saw this...** are you evidencing PAlamy has re-introduced stemming????!!! has AI convinced PAlamy finally??!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Morrison Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 3 minutes ago, Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg said: not following this thread but... Now you know how the rest of us feel, Jeff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Harrison Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg said: are you evidencing PAlamy has re-introduced stemming????!!! has AI convinced PAlamy finally??!!! Well in fact that's the second instance I've found whilst looking into this, the others were 266 images where 'minority' (as in Senate minority) was in the caption but the search was for 'minor' (see page 2 of thread). There must be something else going on but I don't know what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 2 hours ago, Harry Harrison said: Well in fact that's the second instance I've found whilst looking into this Comrades, I hope when it comes to stemming PAlamy is rethinking & pulling a Prigozhin !!! 🗣 VODKA AND BEETS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg said: HOLD ON. not following this thread but... went to end of this thread, saw this...** are you evidencing PAlamy has re-introduced stemming????!!! has AI convinced PAlamy finally??!!! 4 hours ago, Harry Harrison said: Well in fact that's the second instance I've found whilst looking into this, the others were 266 images where 'minority' (as in Senate minority) was in the caption but the search was for 'minor' (see page 2 of thread). There must be something else going on but I don't know what. Here's another one also from Live News: Dick finds 2R95N30 where only a hockey player named Pien Dicke is in the caption and keywords. Absolutely no dick in the keywords so no misspelling. Why was I looking for dick, you may ask. I was looking for an image of someone with a Nixon mask in front of the White House. Tricky Dick! Which did not show up when not logged in. What was I thinking? Having Dick in my keywords. What are all those contributors thinking uploading 85,213 images of people called Dick? And none of those will turn up when someone comes in from outside Alamy, say through a Google search, and then find that Alamy is responding: - Sorry, we can’t find anything for your search term It’s possible that we don’t have any imagery, but check your spelling or try changing your keywords If you’ve searched using an image ID, it might be that the image is not available for sale in your country or it has been removed from the collection and is no longer for sale. And what are all those clients (700 UCO) thinking that are looking for images of someone named Dick? Moby Dick? - Sorry, we can’t find anything for your search termDick Fosbury; Dick Turpin; Dick Clark; Dick Gregory; Dick Cheney? - Sorry, we can’t find anything for your search term wim Edited June 24, 2023 by wiskerke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Harrison Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 (edited) On a similar theme, searching for 'red carpet glamour' when logged in - 171,822 eminently saleable images. Search for the same without logging in, or without an account, maybe just having a look to see what Alamy has to offer: - Sorry, we can’t find anything for your search term It’s possible that we don’t have any imagery, but check your spelling or try changing your keywords If you’ve searched using an image ID, it might be that the image is not available for sale in your country or it has been removed from the collection and is no longer for sale. Thou shalt not find any images that have 'glamour' as a keyword. Edited June 25, 2023 by Harry Harrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Bell Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Harry Harrison said: On a similar theme, searching for 'red carpet glamour' when logged in - 171,822 eminently saleable images. Search for the same without logging in, or without an account, maybe just having a look to see what Alamy has to offer: - Sorry, we can’t find anything for your search term It’s possible that we don’t have any imagery, but check your spelling or try changing your keywords If you’ve searched using an image ID, it might be that the image is not available for sale in your country or it has been removed from the collection and is no longer for sale. Thou shalt not find any images that have 'glamour' as a keyword. I removed "Glamour" from 2M7MDWK yesterday and today I can see that image when I am Logged out as well as logged in. Hooray a solution for me. Now to find a different word that means "Glamour" but will not lock out the image from other search engines. Allan Edited June 25, 2023 by Allan Bell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Harrison Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 3 minutes ago, Allan Bell said: Hooray a solution for me. Well that's a result anyway, and I see that the headline on their website is "Relaxed dining and drinking with a touch of timeless glamour" which is of course why you legitimately included it. It's a pity we have to tiptoe around these invisible restrictions to make sure our images are seen by as many people as possible, I imagine we've only scratched the surface of these 'red list' keywords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Bell Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said: Well that's a result anyway, and I see that the headline on their website is "Relaxed dining and drinking with a touch of timeless glamour" which is of course why you legitimately included it. It's a pity we have to tiptoe around these invisible restrictions to make sure our images are seen by as many people as possible, I imagine we've only scratched the surface of these 'red list' keywords. Wonder how the Alamy contributors are managing who upload "Glamour" as a subject? Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 15 hours ago, Harry Harrison said: On a similar theme, searching for 'red carpet glamour' when logged in - 171,822 eminently saleable images. Search for the same without logging in, or without an account, maybe just having a look to see what Alamy has to offer: - Sorry, we can’t find anything for your search term It’s possible that we don’t have any imagery, but check your spelling or try changing your keywords If you’ve searched using an image ID, it might be that the image is not available for sale in your country or it has been removed from the collection and is no longer for sale. Thou shalt not find any images that have 'glamour' as a keyword. But glamor is allowed. Proof that it's a UK conspiracy. Paranoid? Who me? Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Harrison Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, wiskerke said: Proof that it's a UK conspiracy. Nailed it! Edited June 26, 2023 by Harry Harrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Bell Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 Got some words that might be usable in place of "Glamour" but it would have to fit in at the end of "Relaxed dining and drinking with a touch of timeless --------" beauty, allure, attractiveness, elegance, chic, style, charisma, charm, fascination, magnetism, seductiveness, (No not seductiveness) desirability. And attraction, fascination, enchantment, captivation, magic, romance, mystique, exoticism, excitement, thrill, glitter, brilliance, the bright lights, the high life, glitz, pizzazz. Of course some of those above could be just as bad as "Glamour". Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Harrison Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 Clearly we're not allowed to discuss this aspect of the issue on here in detail but I don't have an account with any of the competitors and so far I'm not seeing any any right out ban on the use of certain keywords to those not logged in. Not going to spend a lot of time on it but it suggests that it is confined to the Alamy website in particular and seemingly not a legal requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiskerke Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Harry Harrison said: Clearly we're not allowed to discuss this aspect of the issue on here in detail but I don't have an account with any of the competitors and so far I'm not seeing any any right out ban on the use of certain keywords to those not logged in. Not going to spend a lot of time on it but it suggests that it is confined to the Alamy website in particular and seemingly not a legal requirement. Just altering that warning: - Sorry, we can’t find anything for your search term It’s possible that we don’t have any imagery, but check your spelling or try changing your keywords If you’ve searched using an image ID, it might be that the image is not available for sale in your country or it has been removed from the collection and is no longer for sale. would make some difference. The second line should read something like: if you've found an image through a search online, it may be that you will have to be logged in to get to it. Especially the part about the image having been removed is particularly damning. This is really really very seldom the case. The best would be to acknowledge that a safe space filter is at work, prohibiting you the client to see it. Unlikely to happen, but honesty breeds trust. wim Edited June 26, 2023 by wiskerke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Harrison Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, wiskerke said: The best would be to acknowledge that a safe space filter is at work, prohibiting you the client to see it. Unlikely to happen, but honesty breeds trust. wim Absolutely, but the fact that Alamy are ignoring this thread and that the IT Team haven't in the past been able to explain when asked why certain mages aren't coming up in the search doesn't give much confidence that will happen. After all it was those of us on this thread who discovered that it was down to the difference between being logged in and logged out and eventually that there was some 'Safe space' shenanigans going on, not Alamy who simply had no response. Alamy will presumably say that this needs to be addressed via contributors@alamy.com who will then refer it to the IT Team, but then it has been already, though before we were able to deduce what was going on ourselves, but they shouldn't need to deduce anything. They may then say that it's commercially sensitive I suppose. Edited June 26, 2023 by Harry Harrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Harrison Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 Just came across a contributor where 90% of their images would not be found in a search by someone who was not logged in, I don't feel that it would be appropriate to name the contributor. I also noticed that bizarrely images barred unless you are logged in still cane up as 'Stock photos by the same contributor' when viewing one of the images that got through and you could go to the zoom screen, however searching on the image id got the usual "Sorry, we can’t find anything for your search term". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StokeCreative Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 32 minutes ago, Harry Harrison said: Just came across a contributor where 90% of their images would not be found in a search by someone who was not logged in, I don't feel that it would be appropriate to name the contributor. I also noticed that bizarrely images barred unless you are logged in still cane up as 'Stock photos by the same contributor' when viewing one of the images that got through and you could go to the zoom screen, however searching on the image id got the usual "Sorry, we can’t find anything for your search term". If they are a forum regular I'm sure they'd like to know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Harrison Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 30 minutes ago, StokeCreative said: If they are a forum regular I'm sure they'd like to know Couldn't be said to be a forum regular though if DMs were a thing on here I would have done so. It may not matter to them anyway but it is just an example of how this insidious and apparently secret 'safety' feature can affect us without our knowledge. I had actually wanted to show someone my pictures of Brightwell-xxx-Sotwell on my phone and just couldn't understand why I apparently didn't have any. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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