spacecadet Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, geogphotos said: You did very well working out that it was in Bulgaria so you deserved those drinks! Thanks😄 Pleasure, nice to have something to do. I passed on ancient greek at school and didn't go there until a few years ago (Kos), so learnt a bit for tourist purposes as usual. Otherwise it would have been Greek to me as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) Do keep putting up your puzzlers, btw. It's a bit of a larf and there doesn't seem to be much we can't crack eventually. Must have been a Lancastrian, mutter mutter. Edited May 22, 2020 by spacecadet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin P Wilson Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, spacecadet said: Do keep putting up your puzzlers, btw. It's a bit of a larf and there doesn't seem to be much we can't crack eventually. Must have been a Lancastrian, mutter mutter. 🤔Lancastrian probably, there is no other RAF plane that might fit. Need to find a picture of the front of the engine nacelles; I have had no joy so far. But some Merlins do have similar intakes where they have chin radiators. Edited May 22, 2020 by Martin P Wilson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Martin P Wilson said: 🤔Lancastrian probably, there is no other RAF plane that might fit. Need to find a picture of the front of the engine nacelles; I have had no joy so far. But some Merlins do have similar intakes where they have chin radiators. I'm getting sceptical about the Lancastrian, not least the intake, but also the roundel- the Lancastrian was a civil airliner and the only one with roundels I can find is when it was used as a Sapphire testbed. I'm worried about the shape of the wing and the viewpoint as well. Snag is, like you, I can't imagine what else it could possibly be above Kilimanjaro. Edit: the RAF used it as a transport. So that's OK. Edited May 22, 2020 by spacecadet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Standfast Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 If there was a bit more of the bottom of the frame you would be able to see the ejector exhaust, indicating its a Merlin. Maybe... Anyway isn't it Scottish ferries today???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Mr Standfast said: If there was a bit more of the bottom of the frame you would be able to see the ejector exhaust, indicating its a Merlin. Maybe... Anyway isn't it Scottish ferries today???? Have you seen this one? https://www.alamy.com/view-from-aeroplane-flying-over-mount-kilimanjaro-africa-1960s-or-early-1970s-image357369980.html?pv=1&stamp=2&imageid=6B2557C7-48F4-4DEE-9CBA-94A1C5142E15&p=5343&n=0&orientation=0&pn=1&searchtype=12&IsFromSearch=1&srch=foo%3Dbar%26st%3D12%26pn%3D1%26ps%3D100%26sortby%3D2%26resultview%3DsortbyPopular%26npgs%3D7%26qt%3Dtrabant%20%26qt_raw%3Dtrabant%20%26lic%3D3%26mr%3D0%26pr%3D0%26ot%3D0%26creative%3D%26ag%3D0%26hc%3D0%26pc%3D%26blackwhite%3D%26cutout%3D%26tbar%3D0%26et%3D0x000000000000000000000%26vp%3D0%26loc%3D0%26imgt%3D0%26dtfr%3D%26dtto%3D%26size%3D0xFF%26archive%3D1%26groupid%3D%26pseudoid%3D87718%26a%3D%26cdid%3D%26cdsrt%3D%26name%3Dian%20murray%26qn%3D%26apalib%3D%26apalic%3D%26lightbox%3D%26gname%3D%26gtype%3D%26xstx%3D0%26simid%3D%26saveQry%3D%26editorial%3D%26nu%3D%26t%3D%26edoptin%3D%26customgeoip%3DGB%26cap%3D1%26cid%3D86XGEPGQDWNT2QNBV72B6XXANL2D7ZYVCBUYCLEPBLW2W9S97M8JC8WMVCYE6X8N%26vd%3D1%26lb%3D%26fi%3D2%26edrf%3D0%26ispremium%3D1%26flip%3D0%26pl%3D It should show the ejector exhausts- should they not be in line with the centre line of the spinner or a bit higher? -and I don't think it has any. Just a couple of dark plates. If it's not a Merlin all bets are off then. Let's see. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_of_the_Royal_Air_Force Edited May 22, 2020 by spacecadet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Standfast Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 Forgot that one... Hard work finding a machine that didn't have turboprops, radials or Merlins... Mmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin P Wilson Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) 59 minutes ago, spacecadet said: Let's see. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_of_the_Royal_Air_Force I went through that list for all 2, 3 and 4 propeller monplanes with no joy. I agree about the exhausts and looking at the position of the nacelle and the wing surface also looks wrong as the Lancastrian nacelle was flush with the wing. As far as I have been able to see the Lancastrian nacelle seems to have a had a vertical divider in the main intake rather than the separate intake at the top. I am going round in circles! 😵😖 I hate not knowing! Apart from the Gipsy and Merlin (and Griffon) what other non-radial engines were used on medium/ large transports? Edited May 22, 2020 by Martin P Wilson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 Just now, Mr Standfast said: Forgot that one... Hard work finding a machine that didn't have turboprops, radials or Merlins... Mmmmmm Same here. I wonder if it's not RAF- some other air forces use the red centre roundel- eg. Australia (kangaroo) and NZ (kiwi) and I can convince myself it's not a circle but some other shape. But the aeroplane types would have been much the same- and what was an AUS or NZ type doing in Tanzania? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Standfast Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 Have a look at the Dassault Flamant. Two engines, Renault in-line, max ceiling 26000 ft...Little vent on top of the cowl... ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin P Wilson Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) 51 minutes ago, spacecadet said: Same here. I wonder if it's not RAF- some other air forces use the red centre roundel- eg. Australia (kangaroo) and NZ (kiwi) and I can convince myself it's not a circle but some other shape. But the aeroplane types would have been much the same- and what was an AUS or NZ type doing in Tanzania? Or Canadian but why would that be there? Then you have types such as the Canadair Cl-4 (Argonaut) but again with Merlins. South-Africa used the RAF roundel with a white centre but with an orange springbok that clipped the blue but only up to 1957. But I didn't get any joy from looking at SAAF types from the period. Rhodesia (North & South) used a similar roundel to the RAF (with additional emblem) up to 1970, they seemed to have operated Canadair Argonauts. Edited May 22, 2020 by Martin P Wilson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin P Wilson Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Mr Standfast said: Have a look at the Dassault Flamant. Two engines, Renault in-line, max ceiling 26000 ft...Little vent on top of the cowl... ??? Don't think so. Intake too deep, wing too tapered and the Dassault has too much wing outboard of the engine. Also same problem as the DH Dove, the engines are too far forward. This is so frustrating! Edited May 22, 2020 by Martin P Wilson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin P Wilson Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) The Canadair DC-4M (as used by the Rhodesian Air Force) has Merlins but with the extra intake behind the spinner and a blanking plate over the inboard exhaust (looks as though there is one on Ian's original image). https://www.airliners.net/photo/Trans-Canada-Air-Lines-TCA/Canadair-DC-4M-2-4-North-Star-M2-4-CL-2/167344 and exhaust schematic and scroll through for some interesting views of the type under resoration Haven't found any suggestion that the RAF used any DC-4N or Argonaut variants, unless perhaps they used chartered/ bought BOAC planes for some reason. Could this be the beast, but who was operating it? Edited May 22, 2020 by Martin P Wilson more info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Standfast Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 38 minutes ago, Martin P Wilson said: The Canadair DC-4M (as used by the Rhodesian Air Force) has Merlins but with the extra intake behind the spinner and a blanking plate over the inboard exhaust (looks as though there is one on Ian's original image). https://www.airliners.net/photo/Trans-Canada-Air-Lines-TCA/Canadair-DC-4M-2-4-North-Star-M2-4-CL-2/167344 and exhaust schematic and scroll through for some interesting views of the type under resoration Haven't found any suggestion that the RAF used any DC-4N or Argonaut variants, unless perhaps they used chartered/ bought BOAC planes for some reason. Could this be the beast, but who was operating it? That oblong vent in the nacelle is a good match, the blanked off exhaust is also convincing. If it's an Argonaut where was the photographer? Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin P Wilson Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Mr Standfast said: That oblong vent in the nacelle is a good match, the blanked off exhaust is also convincing. If it's an Argonaut where was the photographer? Cheers. In the copilot's seat - through the cabin side window? One of the other pics was definitely from behind a windshield. RAF operated commandeered? Argonauts in Kuwait in summer of 1961 apparently, (and/or) with support from Argonauts of the Royal Rhodesian Airforce - Kilimanjaro might well have been on their route home! See item 35 of this link. In 1961 (to 1963) the RRhAF roundel was (sorry should probably make it smaller!): Edited May 22, 2020 by Martin P Wilson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geogphotos Posted May 22, 2020 Author Share Posted May 22, 2020 Hey guys. I Photoshopped Killi 😄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin P Wilson Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, geogphotos said: Hey guys. I Photoshopped Killi 😄 😀 Whatever, I still think it is an Canadair Argonaut! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorilla Dave Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 Yeah 1 hour ago, Martin P Wilson said: 😀 Whatever, I still think it is an Canadair Argonaut! Yeah I agree ! in fact I'll bet three bananas it's an Argonaut! look at this one, if you zoom in you can see a guy leaning out of the cockpit with a camera! https://www.airhistory.net/photo/98821/182 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Standfast Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 16 minutes ago, Gorilla Dave said: Yeah Yeah I agree ! in fact I'll bet three bananas it's an Argonaut! look at this one, if you zoom in you can see a guy leaning out of the cockpit with a camera! https://www.airhistory.net/photo/98821/182 That would be Jason. 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 That's it. But where are the ejectors? Just lost in the shadows? That was super obscure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin P Wilson Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, spacecadet said: That's it. But where are the ejectors? Just lost in the shadows? That was super obscure. See my earlier post with the link to the engine schematic. The inboard ejectors have a blanking cover and the exhaust taken to the outboard. You can see what looks like a darker panel where the ejectors would be. Argonaut even appears to have the deicing boots on wing leading edge that all the other possibilities lacked. Edited May 23, 2020 by Martin P Wilson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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