LBIPP an eye opener

[radharcimages]

 

Create a portfolio of great news pictures, and get beat up or arrested at least once, while doing so.

 

 

The old Belfast photographer maxim, if you arent being threatened, you arent doing your job properly.

Been threatened a lot, had to check under my car for a long period of time.

 

Never been asked for my qualifications, even my first photography job they wanted to see my book and that was it.

When hiring photographers I dont ask for their qualifications, I want to see their work. Recent work and lots of it.

I dont hire people with day jobs though, they arent hungry enough and generally dont understand the difference between a day job and what I am looking for. Besides which I always ask the question why they dont just work harder/better at their day job! ;-)

[Paulstw]

I dont hire people with day jobs though, they arent hungry enough and generally dont understand the difference between a day job and what I am looking for. Besides which I always ask the question why they dont just work harder/better at their day job! ;-)

 

 

Working harder at your day job doesn't always get the results you require. In fact, I don't think many would support that theory these days. People are already stretched. There's not always scope to work extra either. To be honest if it wasn't for Alamy and this forum I would still be giving my images away for free to the press and all who asked. If I was a tog full time it would probably be a hell of a lot harder than I think and harder than my current job but nothings going to stop me doing it. 

 

I will change your mind about folk with day jobs. I'm the guy who drops lunch breaks to get taxis into town to cover what I hear on social media. I'll drop my weekend plans to cover football and don't get paid for it because building my portfolio is more important to a future agency. I will get a loan to purchase a 400 2.8 if it's needed, and I will sell my car if I need to to keep this going. You know why? because at the end of the day, my pics mean something to me. Maybe not the first twenty thousand of them but everyone I take from now on. I might never be a staffer, or successful on here, but I will give it my all, just purely because there's people out there who think I can't do it with having a day job. 

[Sultanpepa]

Here here Paul! And good luck in your quest.

[radharcimages]

 

I will change your mind about folk with day jobs.

 

Sorry Paul, you wont.

I do hear what you are saying but you are missing my point, this is a business and if I want business continuity or someone I can trust to deliver then I will call on someone who already does it for a living not someone who doesnt need the income/reputation to survive. Underlying everything you say thats the basic facts of the matter. Its not anything against you and shouldnt be taken that way.

If you re-read your comments, admirable though they are, I cant afford to hire someone who does work in their lunch break or on weekends. If I need someone to cover a photoshoot tomorrow at 10:30am you arent going to be the person I call and never will be. Thats the key difference you are missing. Nipping out during a lunchtime is just that, nipping out at lunchtime. Shooting the odd photo for alamy is one thing but actually knowing the type of photo thats likely to get used/printed/paid for is not something you are going to develop in a year of lunchtimes.

Ive mentioned the 10,000 hour rule before and although its a notional argument it by and large holds true. Thats an awful lot of lunchtimes and weekends.

Think about any other profession, would you hire a plumber who only worked lunchbreaks and weekends (regardless of how good they are or the equipment they own). You could say yes you would but the vast majority wouldnt and thats like stock photography, yes you will get the odd hit but the guy who does it 24-7 is the one who is going to get more hits.

If you were a plumber and needed someone to cover would you get the guy who has his own plumbing business or the lunchtime and weekend guy? In some cases the latter guy may get a job but very rare indeed.

Bring that forward to me, Joe Fox and my business, no, you arent going to change my mind because if I hire someone to represent my business then that person will be someone of equal professional standing. They will know what it means from a business perspective, not just a turn up and fire off some photos. Saying that I do hire student photographers (I am doing so this weekend) but thats a different proposition altogether.

 

That is what you are up against. You can argue the point but Im just giving you a view of someone who does this for a living and who does hire photographers (amongst other professions). Again its not getting at you but its just a statement of cold hard facts and if you look at some of the threads you have started will explain exactly why things are occuring the way they are.

[Paulstw]

 

 

I will change your mind about folk with day jobs.

 

Sorry Paul, you wont.

I do hear what you are saying but you are missing my point, this is a business and if I want business continuity or someone I can trust to deliver then I will call on someone who already does it for a living not someone who doesnt need the income/reputation to survive. Underlying everything you say thats the basic facts of the matter. Its not anything against you and shouldnt be taken that way.

If you re-read your comments, admirable though they are, I cant afford to hire someone who does work in their lunch break or on weekends. If I need someone to cover a photoshoot tomorrow at 10:30am you arent going to be the person I call and never will be. Thats the key difference you are missing. Nipping out during a lunchtime is just that, nipping out at lunchtime. Shooting the odd photo for alamy is one thing but actually knowing the type of photo thats likely to get used/printed/paid for is not something you are going to develop in a year of lunchtimes.

Ive mentioned the 10,000 hour rule before and although its a notional argument it by and large holds true. Thats an awful lot of lunchtimes and weekends.

Think about any other profession, would you hire a plumber who only worked lunchbreaks and weekends (regardless of how good they are or the equipment they own). You could say yes you would but the vast majority wouldnt and thats like stock photography, yes you will get the odd hit but the guy who does it 24-7 is the one who is going to get more hits.

If you were a plumber and needed someone to cover would you get the guy who has his own plumbing business or the lunchtime and weekend guy? In some cases the latter guy may get a job but very rare indeed.

Bring that forward to me, Joe Fox and my business, no, you arent going to change my mind because if I hire someone to represent my business then that person will be someone of equal professional standing. They will know what it means from a business perspective, not just a turn up and fire off some photos. Saying that I do hire student photographers (I am doing so this weekend) but thats a different proposition altogether.

 

That is what you are up against. You can argue the point but Im just giving you a view of someone who does this for a living and who does hire photographers (amongst other professions). Again its not getting at you but its just a statement of cold hard facts and if you look at some of the threads you have started will explain exactly why things are occuring the way they are.

 

 

 

Aww c'mon sure I can't change your mind? lol 

 

Now that I read the bigger version I understand what is required. The other way you put it was like a red rag to a bull with me to be honest. This version is much better and details the requirements exactly. Is this requirement being filled by you on a regular basis? Can you call upon anyone at a moments notice? 

 

It's an interesting concept. If my pipes are bursting all over the house, yes, I need a plumber yesterday and not someone who finishes an admin job at 5pm. Totally understand that. Fits into place now that you put it that way. I guess with that said it still doesn't hold out much hope for my full time career in photography as I can't bank on someone maybe calling me for work that day. 

 

If that's what is required, then I'll find out how to make it work. I have a 5 year plan so it's useful advice to incorporate in. 

 

Cheers for clarifying. 

[radharcimages]

 

 

 Is this requirement being filled by you on a regular basis? Can you call upon anyone at a moments notice? 

 

 

Sorry Paul, Im not sure if these are rhetorical or not but I'll answer them anyway.

Regular, yes but depends on what you mean regular, a couple of times a month? Yes. Depending on time. I travel a lot, usually up to 3 months a year so do need someone to cover my regular clients during this time or there are times clients want two jobs done in different places at the same time so need someone to work with me.

 

The call on anyone at a moments notice isnt quite the way I work. I may call on anyone but I expect and answer there and then, so yes or no if they can fill in, not yes if I can get the time off as often I might have the client on the phone, waiting a return email etc etc. So it may not be a moments notice (I dont really work like that any more) but if I need someone to cover me next Tuesday at 4pm then yes I have a few people to call who will give me a yes or no answer on the phone there and then.

The people who can answer yes or no there and then and who do have all their ducks in a row will get the call time and time again.

Going back to your local situation, there are guys who were staffers/regular freelance who have been laid off or have went freelance and they will be the guys top on the list to call and whoever has the list will then make the call to say yes they can cover or no they cant.

To be honest I rarely call more than 2 people (rarely more than 1) to see if they can cover before saying no I cant cover it or re-arranging (depending on usual client or just one off request). If its a one off request they will just go to the next person/agency on their list and it all starts over again.

Going back to your point about the plumber analogy again, if you have had a plumber come out at all hours to fix a burst pipe (been there done that) and they do a good job, are sympathetic and dont stick the arm in are you likely to call them again and give them the run of the mill business of fitting a new pump to your boiler or servicing your boiler? Or do you want to go out there and start looking for another plumber again....

Think about it all in business terms... ...most people dont.

[York Photographer]

Good luck to you Paulstw, if your pictures are good enough to get published (and sell advertising around), then you should be asking at least the going rate. Getting started is tricky, but if you start cheap, you'll always be cheap. You'll find your kit pays for itself faster if you work for the going rate. Working cheap knocks the bottom out of of the profession you aspire to be in. I've lost jobs to people not only prepared to work cheaper than me, but for free with a credit. At that point its no longer a profession, its a hobby!

 

By all means cover the footy for free, and show the editor/clubs the watermarked shots, but charge for the images

[Martin P Wilson]

And take a zero tolerance approach to copyright infringement. I am in the middle of a serious one at the moment but if anything it is strengthening the perception of me with associated groups as I am being highly professional, being seen to understand the business context, not allowing myself to be walked over but being fair to people and organisations who have been dragged into the dispute (not by me). An all round decent guy in other words. One has already become a client - my first in my recent reincarnation as a full time photographer. I won't get rich on it but it will be a proper basis and provide access, every little helps.

[spacecadet]

And take a zero tolerance approach to copyright infringement. I am in the middle of a serious one at the moment

 

 

Keep us posted on that one. I'm about to start one against a public authority and I'll do like wise.

[Martin P Wilson]

 

And take a zero tolerance approach to copyright infringement. I am in the middle of a serious one at the moment

 

 

Keep us posted on that one. I'm about to start one against a public authority and I'll do like wise.

 

 

I will do. Once the dust settles I am probably going to go with ImageRights even for local UK ones, it sucks a lot of energy even when you know you are in the right, and have the evidence! That energy could be better used elsewhere.

[Robert Brook]

.

[Paulstw]

"I'll drop my weekend plans to cover football and don't get paid for it because building my portfolio is more important to a future agency."

 

Have you researched this? What kind of agency do you have in mind?

 

I am asking because there seems to be a conflict between your aspirations and the way you are going about it.

 

There is an opportunity to shoot for an agency (I won't name it for fear of mucking it up) 

 

If there's a conflict in the way I'm going about anything in photography, it's because you're left on your own to get on with it in this industry. There's no such thing as peer support. I can't just call someone and ask for advice because everyone keeps themselves to themselves. I have other IT folk call me on a regular basis asking for advice, and likewise when I need advice on issues too, however, in photography there's no such support network. Yeah I could go on forums (which I do) however, even then it's still a small part of the bigger picture. 

 

It's very trial and error based and it's quite harsh lessons you need to learn and very quickly.  

 

I'm doing the football because I really enjoy it. I get time away to sit for 90 mins and watch a game and sharpen my reactions a wee bit more each game. The news side of things demands a lot of time I clearly don't have and really have been slipping away from it of late. The guy was right above, folk with day jobs aren't hungry enough for it, and it's not through lack of trying, it's through being stuck behind a desk when it's all kicking off outside. We're not suited to that genre and should stay well clear of it. I'll do what I can and I might get the odd usage, but when it's put down in black and white it tends to hit hard. 

 

I've started collecting everything and putting it in one place now. Hopefully I can just keep building on it on a regular basis, and what comes will come. 

 

If anyones interested, PixelRights is a great site for those worried about people stealing your work. 

 

https://www.pixelrights.com/members/paul-stewart/

[spacecadet]

 

 

And take a zero tolerance approach to copyright infringement. I am in the middle of a serious one at the moment

 

 

Keep us posted on that one. I'm about to start one against a public authority and I'll do like wise.

 

 

I will do. Once the dust settles I am probably going to go with ImageRights even for local UK ones, it sucks a lot of energy even when you know you are in the right, and have the evidence! That energy could be better used elsewhere.

 

Well as I live in London I think I'll try this one just for the experience.

Oh, and the money, of course.

Somewhat needed as I've just failed QC again.

[Martin P Wilson]

 

 

 

And take a zero tolerance approach to copyright infringement. I am in the middle of a serious one at the moment

 

 

Keep us posted on that one. I'm about to start one against a public authority and I'll do like wise.

 

 

I will do. Once the dust settles I am probably going to go with ImageRights even for local UK ones, it sucks a lot of energy even when you know you are in the right, and have the evidence! That energy could be better used elsewhere.

 

Well I think I'll try this one just for the experience.

Oh, and the money, of course.

 

 

I think you need to go through it once.

[Paulstw]

 

 

 

 

And take a zero tolerance approach to copyright infringement. I am in the middle of a serious one at the moment

 

 

Keep us posted on that one. I'm about to start one against a public authority and I'll do like wise.

 

 

I will do. Once the dust settles I am probably going to go with ImageRights even for local UK ones, it sucks a lot of energy even when you know you are in the right, and have the evidence! That energy could be better used elsewhere.

 

Well I think I'll try this one just for the experience.

Oh, and the money, of course.

 

 

I think you need to go through it once.

 

 

I currently have an open case with Image Rights too. found the process very good so far. 

[Martin P Wilson]

 

 

 

 

 

And take a zero tolerance approach to copyright infringement. I am in the middle of a serious one at the moment

 

 

Keep us posted on that one. I'm about to start one against a public authority and I'll do like wise.

 

 

I will do. Once the dust settles I am probably going to go with ImageRights even for local UK ones, it sucks a lot of energy even when you know you are in the right, and have the evidence! That energy could be better used elsewhere.

 

Well I think I'll try this one just for the experience.

Oh, and the money, of course.

 

 

I think you need to go through it once.

 

 

I currently have an open case with Image Rights too. found the process very good so far. 

 

 

My case I am dealing with myself as it was so local, sort of wish I had given it to ImageRights as it is such an exasperating process. That said I think you need to pursue one yourself so that you appreciate what is involved.

[Robert Brook]

 

"I'll drop my weekend plans to cover football and don't get paid for it because building my portfolio is more important to a future agency."

 

Have you researched this? What kind of agency do you have in mind?

 

I am asking because there seems to be a conflict between your aspirations and the way you are going about it.

 

There is an opportunity to shoot for an agency (I won't name it for fear of mucking it up) 

 

If there's a conflict in the way I'm going about anything in photography, it's because you're left on your own to get on with it in this industry. There's no such thing as peer support. I can't just call someone and ask for advice because everyone keeps themselves to themselves. I have other IT folk call me on a regular basis asking for advice, and likewise when I need advice on issues too, however, in photography there's no such support network. Yeah I could go on forums (which I do) however, even then it's still a small part of the bigger picture. 

 

It's very trial and error based and it's quite harsh lessons you need to learn and very quickly.  

 

I'm doing the football because I really enjoy it. I get time away to sit for 90 mins and watch a game and sharpen my reactions a wee bit more each game. The news side of things demands a lot of time I clearly don't have and really have been slipping away from it of late. The guy was right above, folk with day jobs aren't hungry enough for it, and it's not through lack of trying, it's through being stuck behind a desk when it's all kicking off outside. We're not suited to that genre and should stay well clear of it. I'll do what I can and I might get the odd usage, but when it's put down in black and white it tends to hit hard. 

 

I've started collecting everything and putting it in one place now. Hopefully I can just keep building on it on a regular basis, and what comes will come. 

 

If anyones interested, PixelRights is a great site for those worried about people stealing your work. 

 

https://www.pixelrights.com/members/paul-stewart/

 

 

As an aspiring photojournalist you would get some help if you joined the NUJ, assuming you are not already a member.  You could get help here if you corresponded privately - assuming you felt that there are people here who could help.  While qualifications may be somewhat overrated that doesn't mean that doing courses is a waste of time, far from it.  It's a question of finding the right course.  If nothing else you will make contacts.

 

Good luck with the agency, but it might be a good idea to do some serious research on agencies - whether press or stock.  For anyone with a 9 to 5, agencies are the most likely way of securing a career.

[Paulstw]

 

 

"I'll drop my weekend plans to cover football and don't get paid for it because building my portfolio is more important to a future agency."

 

Have you researched this? What kind of agency do you have in mind?

 

I am asking because there seems to be a conflict between your aspirations and the way you are going about it.

 

There is an opportunity to shoot for an agency (I won't name it for fear of mucking it up) 

 

If there's a conflict in the way I'm going about anything in photography, it's because you're left on your own to get on with it in this industry. There's no such thing as peer support. I can't just call someone and ask for advice because everyone keeps themselves to themselves. I have other IT folk call me on a regular basis asking for advice, and likewise when I need advice on issues too, however, in photography there's no such support network. Yeah I could go on forums (which I do) however, even then it's still a small part of the bigger picture. 

 

It's very trial and error based and it's quite harsh lessons you need to learn and very quickly.  

 

I'm doing the football because I really enjoy it. I get time away to sit for 90 mins and watch a game and sharpen my reactions a wee bit more each game. The news side of things demands a lot of time I clearly don't have and really have been slipping away from it of late. The guy was right above, folk with day jobs aren't hungry enough for it, and it's not through lack of trying, it's through being stuck behind a desk when it's all kicking off outside. We're not suited to that genre and should stay well clear of it. I'll do what I can and I might get the odd usage, but when it's put down in black and white it tends to hit hard. 

 

I've started collecting everything and putting it in one place now. Hopefully I can just keep building on it on a regular basis, and what comes will come. 

 

If anyones interested, PixelRights is a great site for those worried about people stealing your work. 

 

https://www.pixelrights.com/members/paul-stewart/

 

 

As an aspiring photojournalist you would get some help if you joined the NUJ, assuming you are not already a member.  You could get help here if you corresponded privately - assuming you felt that there are people here who could help.  While qualifications may be somewhat overrated that doesn't mean that doing courses is a waste of time, far from it.  It's a question of finding the right course.  If nothing else you will make contacts.

 

Good luck with the agency, but it might be a good idea to do some serious research on agencies - whether press or stock.  For anyone with a 9 to 5, agencies are the most likely way of securing a career.

 

 

I did contact the NUJ a few weeks ago and mentioned the fact that I was with the BAJ. The email was forwarded on to the local office rep with the original internal response of (Might be good to poach BAJ, try and get paul to join) to which the reply to me was, There's plenty of information on our website with regards to freelance photographers and directed me there. I gave that one a thumbs up as I didn't see that before. 

 

 

Everytime I try and apply online it changes from Freelance to Full Member and asks about money I've made this year and how I need references from other members. It seems it doesn't want to recognise me as a freelance. It's a bit odd. 

[Paulstw]

That's likely the reason I never ask anyone for information. Too scared to get the default response you mention then have them distrust you thereafter. 

[RedSnapper]

there is a massive amount of peer-to-peer support within the pro photography sector

 

 

km

[Paulstw]

there is a massive amount of peer-to-peer support within the pro photography sector

 

 

km

 

Appreciate the input Keith. 

 

I guess plugging away for now will be acceptable. I've decided that going for LBIPP won't be financially viable. At the cost of nearly £550, I reckon that money would be better spent elsewhere. A second body or used to upgrade my 70-200 f4 IS. I'll think about it. 

[Martin P Wilson]

 

 

 

 

 

 

And take a zero tolerance approach to copyright infringement. I am in the middle of a serious one at the moment

 

 

Keep us posted on that one. I'm about to start one against a public authority and I'll do like wise.

 

 

I will do. Once the dust settles I am probably going to go with ImageRights even for local UK ones, it sucks a lot of energy even when you know you are in the right, and have the evidence! That energy could be better used elsewhere.

 

Well I think I'll try this one just for the experience.

Oh, and the money, of course.

 

 

I think you need to go through it once.

 

 

I currently have an open case with Image Rights too. found the process very good so far. 

 

 

My case I am dealing with myself as it was so local, sort of wish I had given it to ImageRights as it is such an exasperating process. That said I think you need to pursue one yourself so that you appreciate what is involved.

 

 

It seems to be moving to a conclusion and I should get my claim but the infringer may not really feel the financial pain but they and the individual who I suspect is responsible will suffer significant consequences. Hopefully it will be sorted this week. I think my reputation as operating professionally wil be enhaced if anything even if I have lost a potemtial "client", but they don't pay anyway - they provide "exposure"- Yecch!. Going forward people may be less likely to underestimate me, I may be affable and easy going but you don't get to run £300million government IT projects (my former career) by being weak.

[Paulstw]

I thought my 250k IT budget was big Good going. 

[Martin P Wilson]

I thought my 250k IT budget was big Good going. 

 

Believe it or not in many ways the bigger projects are easier to run. For example if i had a trainer go off sick we could juggle the workload of the other 7 or so; On a sub £1million project if a trainer goes sick you have lost your training department!

 

And I am a lot older than you - I did my share of £250k and smaller projects along the way. The client can be just as, or even more, demanding as on a huge job.

[York Photographer]

 

there is a massive amount of peer-to-peer support within the pro photography sector

 

 

km

 

Appreciate the input Keith. 

 

I guess plugging away for now will be acceptable. I've decided that going for LBIPP won't be financially viable. At the cost of nearly £550, I reckon that money would be better spent elsewhere. A second body or used to upgrade my 70-200 f4 IS. I'll think about it. 

 

 

Not sure how you've got the figure of £550, unless something has changed, joining is about £100, your licentiate submission can be done on 10x8 prints (it used to be 20X16 mounted, which cost quite a bit). I think you'd benefit from joining something, just getting to know a few people, and picking up a few business tips would be priceless at this stage of your professional working life.