LBIPP an eye opener

[Martin P Wilson]

Actually even as a truly amateur photographer third party liability cover would be wise. What happens if someone trips over your tripod or you swing round using a long lens and hit someone in the eye - you could face a compensation claim. Your only defence would be as a  "man of straw" but many of us have assests (if only our photo kit, car etc).

 

I have £5million public liabiility cover (minimum needed to get trackside at motorsport events for example) I don't really have professional indemnity cover because I don't take commissions at the moment. I only sell licences for what I have. But I can see that changing as a result of a developing client relationship - I can put PI cover in place with a phone call. Will not be expensive for me as I am not looking at much of a turnover; I want to keep it modest so I am free to do other things.

[spacecadet]

The way I place my tripod they'd have to trip over me first and my longest lens is only about 5".

In the US it would be on the travel insurance.

[Martin P Wilson]

The way I place my tripod they'd have to trip over me first and my longest lens is only about 5".

In the US it would be on the travel insurance.

 

I guess it may be on many home insurances - but only if you don't (or don't seek to) earn any money from photography

[radharcimages]

Actually even as a truly amateur photographer third party liability cover would be wise. What happens if someone trips over your tripod or you swing round using a long lens and hit someone in the eye - you could face a compensation claim. Your only defence would be as a  "man of straw" but many of us have assests (if only our photo kit, car etc).

 

I have £5million public liabiility cover (minimum needed to get trackside at motorsport events for example) I don't really have professional indemnity cover because I don't take commissions at the moment. I only sell licences for what I have. But I can see that changing as a result of a developing client relationship - I can put PI cover in place with a phone call. Will not be expensive for me as I am not looking at much of a turnover; I want to keep it modest so I am free to do other things.

 

 

You could still need indemnity insurance for ommissions, errors and losses as a result of licensing images, even if its only through an agent. Check your contracts specifically the clauses about indemnifying the agency for any mistakes, errors or losses.

[Martin P Wilson]

 

Actually even as a truly amateur photographer third party liability cover would be wise. What happens if someone trips over your tripod or you swing round using a long lens and hit someone in the eye - you could face a compensation claim. Your only defence would be as a  "man of straw" but many of us have assests (if only our photo kit, car etc).

 

I have £5million public liabiility cover (minimum needed to get trackside at motorsport events for example) I don't really have professional indemnity cover because I don't take commissions at the moment. I only sell licences for what I have. But I can see that changing as a result of a developing client relationship - I can put PI cover in place with a phone call. Will not be expensive for me as I am not looking at much of a turnover; I want to keep it modest so I am free to do other things.

 

 

You could still need indemnity insurance for ommissions, errors and losses as a result of licensing images, even if its only through an agent. Check your contracts specifically the clauses about indemnifying the agency for any mistakes, errors or losses.

 

 

True but as my Alamy sales collapsed 18months ago and have hardly recovered (positive blip in the spring) the premium would be more than revenue! The need for PII and other cover is part of my ongoing monitoring of my business relaunch.

 

I think I need a re-rank to give my Alamy sales a fillip.

[Paulstw]

When I created this thread, I wasn't prepared for it to open the stark realities that it did. The last wee week or so have confirmed a lot of what has been said already. Certain news events we missed due to working. Lack of free time impacted on other opportunities and while I was able to cover a pretty big football match at the weekend there it hit home to me that competing at that level professionally is a long way away. Not because of lack of photographic ability, but the time that it'll take to get into the industry, and that having a day job really will end up impacting on that too. It's all the extra work beyond the 90 mins that I don't think about. 

 

There's no room for a freelancer with a day job. There's no respect for a freelancer with a day job and that in itself has already impacted on how I'm being perceived in the industry on a localised level. I took some amazing shots at the weekend, however, I can't do anything with them. Due to restrictions, I can't sell them to the media, and I can't display them on-line in fear of theft.  The guy next to me had uploaded to 5 picture desks before half-time and quite clearly had in excess of 20k equipment sitting around him. Wireless tethering and images going straight to laptop ingesting to photomechanic instantly on both cameras. It was mind blowing. Impressive, but the guy had years on me. 

 

In a declining industry it dawned on me that investing anymore in this would be crazy so I decided to just chuck the idea of being a professional until such times where I can devote 100% of my time to a particular genre. 

 

I think taking that other bit of advice and just getting better at the day job would be wise. 

[Martin P Wilson]

When I created this thread, I wasn't prepared for it to open the stark realities that it did. The last wee week or so have confirmed a lot of what has been said already. Certain news events we missed due to working. Lack of free time impacted on other opportunities and while I was able to cover a pretty big football match at the weekend there it hit home to me that competing at that level professionally is a long way away. Not because of lack of photographic ability, but the time that it'll take to get into the industry, and that having a day job really will end up impacting on that too. It's all the extra work beyond the 90 mins that I don't think about.

 

There's no room for a freelancer with a day job. There's no respect for a freelancer with a day job and that in itself has already impacted on how I'm being perceived in the industry on a localised level. I took some amazing shots at the weekend, however, I can't do anything with them. Due to restrictions, I can't sell them to the media, and I can't display them on-line in fear of theft. The guy next to me had uploaded to 5 picture desks before half-time and quite clearly had in excess of 20k equipment sitting around him. Wireless tethering and images going straight to laptop ingesting to photomechanic instantly on both cameras. It was mind blowing. Impressive, but the guy had years on me.

 

In a declining industry it dawned on me that investing anymore in this would be crazy so I decided to just chuck the idea of being a professional until such times where I can devote 100% of my time to a particular genre.

 

I think taking that other bit of advice and just getting better at the day job would be wise.

But you might find it liberating as it will force you to focus and prioritise - specialists usually earn more than generalists. Be the best at one or two things not ordinary at everything (my problem!).

 

As you have limited time that you can commit to your photography it does not mean you can't be professional. Determine how much time you can genuinely commit, week in, week out and build your business plan around that. If the time available is limited then it is a scarce resource and your should therefore aim to earn a premium from it. Focus on the work where you can really add value, where you have a genuine USP (unique sales proposition) and can deliver with the equipment that you have (or that it will pay for). That is the same advice I gave to a consultant friend who was underpricing himself because he had child care responsibilities and therefore limited time; wrong thinking - the economics of supply and demand says you should be charging more! He was able to increase his fee income by 50% in a year without working more hours.

 

Bear in mind as well that I guess you have limited shooting time during the daytime but more time in the evenings? So work on stuff that can use that evening time, either in the "studio" or that requires more post-production. It is what I will be trying to do over the winter months.

[York Photographer]

When I created this thread, I wasn't prepared for it to open the stark realities that it did. The last wee week or so have confirmed a lot of what has been said already. Certain news events we missed due to working. Lack of free time impacted on other opportunities and while I was able to cover a pretty big football match at the weekend there it hit home to me that competing at that level professionally is a long way away. Not because of lack of photographic ability, but the time that it'll take to get into the industry, and that having a day job really will end up impacting on that too. It's all the extra work beyond the 90 mins that I don't think about. 

 

There's no room for a freelancer with a day job. There's no respect for a freelancer with a day job and that in itself has already impacted on how I'm being perceived in the industry on a localised level. I took some amazing shots at the weekend, however, I can't do anything with them. Due to restrictions, I can't sell them to the media, and I can't display them on-line in fear of theft.  The guy next to me had uploaded to 5 picture desks before half-time and quite clearly had in excess of 20k equipment sitting around him. Wireless tethering and images going straight to laptop ingesting to photomechanic instantly on both cameras. It was mind blowing. Impressive, but the guy had years on me. 

 

In a declining industry it dawned on me that investing anymore in this would be crazy so I decided to just chuck the idea of being a professional until such times where I can devote 100% of my time to a particular genre. 

 

I think taking that other bit of advice and just getting better at the day job would be wise. 

 

Maybe you're trying to get into the one of the toughest sectors of the industry, maybe if you approach it from another angle, and build up your experience and kit etc etc, with something that you can do in a semi pro way (while charging the going rate). Who's knows, you might not need the day job! Or it might just be a nice sideline which pays for a few nice holidays a year (ideal way of shooting travel). 

[Martin P Wilson]

Paul,

 

I wouldn't beat yourself up too much about it. It really is a question of picking your battles. A lot of people with a lot of experiance have left the industry in the past years. I was at the World Cup this last summer and there were just a fraction of the numbers there were in Germany. A lot of faces were missing, people who have covered every world cup since the Spartans took on the Minoans in the celebrated finals of 48bc.Part of the reason was down to the fact that it is easier and cheaper to send photographers to Germany from the dense media landscape that is Europe, but a lot is down to pure financial realisms. And as you allude to, you are not just competing with peers in the same situation. For the World Cup Alamy news was fed by the likes of DPA/ANP/Xinhua who had teams plus stringers plus, plus, plus covering each game. Individuals have the odds stacked against them before they have even started.

 

groet,

 

Its why I am coming to the conclusion that sport is not a viable way to go for most people. Mainstream elite sports are sewn up and the niche sports are not viable - how much basketball, power boats, hockey coverage do you see from the UK? Before I left photography (in days of film) to go into IT I shot sport full time on a local basis and made a living, not a great one but I was only starting out with limited and modest equipment but I was getting in the specialist magazines (now they are largely closed shops). How many sales would you need to recoup the time and costs of the half day needed to cover a football match and process the images, that is without the sales and marketing time or the equipment? Now I am back trying to build a proper photography income and I just don't see how I could make it work - possibly if I shot equestrian again I could make a base income as an event photographer selling prints (if is not already well covered). But do  people want prints - it is all small digital images shared across social media? Almost everyone interested has a dslr or zoom bridge camera and can do that especially as the quality requirement is pretty low and phone cameras are getting better but at  max of 1000px on the long side does it matter?

 

It might interest you, my worst performing pseudonym for views on Alamy is sport by a significant margin. Even my travel stuff does twice as well and much of that is pretty obscure places in France.