Images containing someone holding an image of people - number of people in the image?

[Steve F]

Hi all,

Been a while since I posted. I think I know the answer to this, but it's an interesting one.

 

I've got a photo of my hands holding a government leaflet. So, number of people in the image = 1, yes I have a model release. Property = yes, property release = no.

 

Except, the government leaflet contains images of people that are clearly shown. So my thinking is that I need to put that there are multiple people in the image and I (obviously) don't have model releases.

 

Any thoughts?

Steve

[Dave Richards]

1 hour ago, Steve F said:

Hi all,

Been a while since I posted. I think I know the answer to this, but it's an interesting one.

 

I've got a photo of my hands holding a government leaflet. So, number of people in the image = 1, yes I have a model release. Property = yes, property release = no.

 

Except, the government leaflet contains images of people that are clearly shown. So my thinking is that I need to put that there are multiple people in the image and I (obviously) don't have model releases.

 

Any thoughts?

Steve

I don’t claim any expertise but I’m inclined to share your thinking. For example, I’ve wondered about photos I’ve taken around London’s west end that have included posters advertising films, theatre shows etc. which include images of the cast. Same with reflections of people in shop windows. I tend to err on the side of caution.

[meanderingemu]

Above 0, Number of people is only relevant if someone uses that as a search parameter.   Your image seems to be of One person.  

 

Having a government leaflet visible, i would consider making it editorial only 

[sb photos]

1 hour ago, Steve F said:

Hi all,

Been a while since I posted. I think I know the answer to this, but it's an interesting one.

 

I've got a photo of my hands holding a government leaflet. So, number of people in the image = 1, yes I have a model release. Property = yes, property release = no.

 

Except, the government leaflet contains images of people that are clearly shown. So my thinking is that I need to put that there are multiple people in the image and I (obviously) don't have model releases.

 

Any thoughts?

Steve

 

Surely there's no need for a model release as you don't have a property release, and both would be required if used commercially. Use would typically be editorial.

[Joseph Clemson]

I have a vague memory that this did come up a long time ago. I recall that the answer was that the number of people in an image refers to actual people or visible parts thereof, or reflections or shadows of people (I think I'm right on that last one).  Images within your image will carry their own copyright and use of model releases, if applicable, therefore for commercial use you would need a property release relating to any image in your image for commercial use, hence sb photos comment that editorial use would be most typical.

 

So, I would be counting the number of actual people and marking my image as containing people and property with no releases available. 

[meanderingemu]

1 hour ago, Joseph Clemson said:

 

 

So, I would be counting the number of actual people and marking my image as containing people and property with no releases available. 

 

 

wouldn't this create false positives for someone searching images with multiple people?  Maybe i am misunderstanding the use of the additional information tab

[Rebecca Ore]

22 minutes ago, meanderingemu said:

 

 

wouldn't this create false positives for someone searching images with multiple people?  Maybe i am misunderstanding the use of the additional information tab

 

5 plus would be five or more -- like crowd scenes.  I suspect most people would be looking for singles or couples, maybe families (smaller than five) or crowd scenes.

[meanderingemu]

1 minute ago, Rebecca Ore said:

 

5 plus would be five or more -- like crowd scenes.  I suspect most people would be looking for singles or couples, maybe families (smaller than five) or crowd scenes.

 

but there doesn't appear to be any crowd in the above example, one only person with a leaflet, so why count the people on leaflet....  isn't that misleading to potential buyers?

 

[Joseph Clemson]

55 minutes ago, meanderingemu said:

 

but there doesn't appear to be any crowd in the above example, one only person with a leaflet, so why count the people on leaflet....  isn't that misleading to potential buyers?

 

In the example given there is only one actual person in the image, the person holding the leaflet. The ones in any image contained on the leaflet would be ignored in the people count.

[Rebecca Ore]

4 hours ago, meanderingemu said:

 

but there doesn't appear to be any crowd in the above example, one only person with a leaflet, so why count the people on leaflet....  isn't that misleading to potential buyers?

 

 

Wouldn't that be property?

[Steve F]

Thanks all, glad this sparked some debate. 🙃