Nick Jenkins Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 but this may well apply UK wide. In Wales the Quango that runs most of the castles/ancient monuments is called Cadw - in England the equivalent is English Heritage. A few weeks ago I was stopped by a CADW official from shooting castles in Monmouthshire, specifically White Castle. It was pointed out that to shoot commercially a fee would be payable by prior agreement, she thought around £200.00 - ha!! My question, having thought about this, is - what is to prevent me shooting from public property suh as a footpath or road/lane as opposed to paying an entry fee and shooting off Cadw land? It is almost ditto marks under the National Trust fiasco. Has anyone experienced and lived through this? I am sure if I am on public property it is their tough luck? nj. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jools Elliott Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Nick, it can be the same here in France. Try shooting inside Notre Dame cathedral with a tripod and you will be found out very quickly. The charge in there is at least 1000€ From public land, what can they do? It couldn't be used commercially without a release but editorially then yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kilpatrick Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Earlier this year I went to a meeting with Historic Scotland arranged in conjunction with a library, publisher and another Alamy contributor. They were taking a similar position. The outcome of the meeting was that they confirmed there was no restriction on stock shooting of the type undertaken normally, and any individual photographer known to them could have a letter to show to staff. I suggested that for the world in general, especially overseas visitors, some kind of permit would be a good idea, and they are considering this. They already have annual memberships etc (£65-ish) but might create a general photography permit at something like £75 a year (excluding admissions) which would involve the photographer signing a form/online-form restricting the images to exteriors, editorial use, no models or products to be brought on site or included, no lighting. I wrote a short proposal of possible terms or benefits, including the use of the applications to build a database of photographers, and the possibility of creating a collection based on asking each 'authorised' photographer to send them three images. I included a suggestion that public liability insurance was vital for any photographer (freelance or otherwise) shooting on any site, and that this could be verified automatically if the photographer was a qualified member of BIPP or MPA (in the UK). In other words, fast-track approval for qualified professionals. I do not know of any further progress, as very shortly after the meeting Historic Scotland was merged with another government department (former Ministry of Works?) to bring all Scottish heritage and public/historic buildings previously in government ownership under a single umbrella. However, Historic Scotland indicated that the idea had great appeal and would make life much easier for their staff (permit card) without affecting the high fees (£500 etc) charged for use of locations by advertising shoots, TV and film crews, etc. They fully understood the difference between this an an editorial freelance touring round for a magazine, or shooting for stock, or doing postcards and calendars. Further, they said they would refine the idea and put it to their counterparts in England, Wales and NI with a view to creating a single national annual permit or special membership category, which would give the holder a card to identify themselves, resolve disputes with staff, enable their presence to be known (and recorded) and their public liability insurance verified. It was also suggested by them that in practice many staff would go out of their way to help, being aware that this visitor was 'on a mission' they would probably tip them off about anything happening on the day, or special conditions applying (like unusual plants in flower, or viewpoints to find). Overall there was no hint of obstruction or red-tape - quite the reverse. They do have their own Crown Copyright image library but accept the siple principle that photography is an art, it's not predictable and you can't turn the light or weather on and off at will, therefore to get great images of property it's very important not to bar photographers. Hopefully something will eventually come of this. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacecadet Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 No bother here at Caerleon a few weeks ago, maybe you found a jobsworth or didn't keep a low enough profile. But I did get conflicting instructions at one particular NT property. In public, I never shoot commercially but for my own amusement, of course. I'd prefer a lower profile that David and forgo any special access. You're right about pix from the highway. It doesn't hurt to put that in the caption if it was or could have been. Beware of NT land unless there is a public, not a permissive, path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gervais Montacute Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 In Wales the Quango that runs most of the castles/ancient monuments is called Cadw nj. Nick, would that be the Last Quango in Powys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gervais Montacute Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 And yes. The National Trust is a bit of a fiasco. I can't see any reason why anyone cannot photo anything from a public area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kilpatrick Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 I think anyone buying a pass or permit would not always feel the need to show it :-) I would do so, as I try to support bodies which create stuff I can photograph. I guess both the NT and Heritage/Historic have had 30 years of continuous membership out of us - same for Edinburgh Zoo, would be the ZSL if we were in SE England. We have found Royal Zoological Society of Scotland membership very useful indeed when abroad - zoos with no connection at all to Edinburgh have even given free or discounted admission, despite not officially having any deal to do so. When we remember we carry our UK various membership cards everywhere in the world. They can make a big difference to your status, and also to any obstruction or help in photographic terms. I try to be diplomatic whenever confronted with 'no photography' and recently in France we saw the position of a cave-system tour guide change completely from supporting the no photography terms of admission to making sure we had time and were able to get our shots (with tripod for one camera). How? We just said we were from Scotland... works every time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Morrison Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 I try to be diplomatic whenever confronted with 'no photography' and recently in France we saw the position of a cave-system tour guide change completely from supporting the no photography terms of admission to making sure we had time and were able to get our shots (with tripod for one camera). How? We just said we were from Scotland... works every time! I try to be polite and diplomatic when people question why I'm photographing a particular place. But I also try to give the impression that I'm not doing anything wrong, that I'm doing pix for "a magazine" or "the tourism people", etc. By not being aggressive, I find that many people will go out of their way to help me. I also have some stock responses... just in case. When asked "Do you know you're trespassing?" I flash my brightest smile, say "Yes. Yes, I do", and carry on taking pictures. When asked "Can I ask you why you're photographing XYZ?", I say "Yes, you can", and carry on taking pictures... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSnapper Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 what is to prevent me shooting from public property suh as a footpath or road/lane as opposed to paying an entry fee and shooting off Cadw land? nothing km Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jenkins Posted July 24, 2013 Author Share Posted July 24, 2013 Thanks all - for now I will make sure any shots of properties managed/owned by Cadw are taken from public places. Will keep an eye on this and pass any updates on if/when I get them. Gervais, that was truly DREADFUL!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSnapper Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 To tie this in with your other thread, why bother photographing castles (which every man woman and their dog are doing) rather than the everyday scenes in and around Cardiff. Be happy to lay odds that 100 well made Cardiff urban images will outsell 100 south wales castles but what do i know km Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jenkins Posted July 24, 2013 Author Share Posted July 24, 2013 Ha! Nothin KM!! As it happens, I am into Cardiff right now to do that - all telepathy you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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