Vectors or Illustrations ?

[edouardcoleman]

Hello,

 

 

I lately uploaded some vectors about Star Wars and I'm wondering if I shouldn t have converted some them into illustrations, as they are maybe too complicated (with a lot of paths). Especially for the non-isolated objets, like the Darth Vader vectors which are only parts of the whole character and so can hardly be inserted in another image.  

 

Also I dont know exactly what people download vectors and how they use them most of the time. 

 

What do you think?

 

 

 

Edouard

[spacecadet]

Do you have a licence to publish them?

[edouardcoleman]

No I don't why?

[spacecadet]

Surely you're aware that Lucasfilm owns the rights to all the figures, machinery and so on?

Your drawings are straightforward copies so I doubt any of the copyright exceptions would apply. I'd be surprised if any commercial publisher would risk using them unlicensed. LFL will go to court to protect them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucasfilm_Ltd_v_Ainsworth

(English law)

 

Ainsworth won on a point of law but  it probably wouldn't help you.

Just some friendly advice- using someone else's IP, unless it's incidental or clearly covered by exceptions, is problematic.

[edouardcoleman]

I actually dont know where property starts and ends.

 

 

But I think I can sell those images as Rights Managed (RM), so as illustrations (vectors are only Royalty Free) ??

 

Look at this : http://www.alamy.com/contributor/how-to-sell-images/model-property-releases-stock-images/

Alamy says: "Don’t worry, if you don’t have a release, we can still sell your images as Rights Managed (RM)."

 

I did it with the yellow and black Batman logo that I uploaded years ago. In the Image Manager they ask:

"Does this image contain property that needs a release for commercial use" > I say Yes

"Do you have a property release" > No

[spacecadet]

Alamy's categories aren't the point- you don't own the IP in the images you are creating.

No-one will use them because a publisher will know, even if you don't, that they breach copyright and trademarks.

[edouardcoleman]

Alamy's categories aren't the point- you don't own the IP in the images you are creating.

No-one will use them because a publisher will know, even if you don't, that they breach copyright and trademarks.

I already sold many times the batman logo and Darth Vader illustrations with RM licence, so it means its possible.

 

I actually just got a reply from Alamy member service:

 

"However, we don’t expect all images to have releases, but we do expect all images to be accurately annotated. If an image contains people then it needs to say that. If you don’t have releases then you can

still sell through Alamy as Rights Managed (RM). Images without releases may also be fine for a commercial customer to use (dependant on their end use), but RM gives us an opportunity to flag the lack of

release to the customer for them to decide if they’ll need one."

[giphotostock]

 

Alamy's categories aren't the point- you don't own the IP in the images you are creating.

No-one will use them because a publisher will know, even if you don't, that they breach copyright and trademarks.

I already sold many times the batman logo and Darth Vader illustrations with RM licence, so it means its possible.

 

I actually just got a reply from Alamy member service:

 

"However, we don’t expect all images to have releases, but we do expect all images to be accurately annotated. If an image contains people then it needs to say that. If you don’t have releases then you can

still sell through Alamy as Rights Managed (RM). Images without releases may also be fine for a commercial customer to use (dependant on their end use), but RM gives us an opportunity to flag the lack of

release to the customer for them to decide if they’ll need one."

 

Pay attention to this term in particular:

"You are responsible for the content you upload, and you must be the copyright holder or have their permission"

 

and this:

"You will indemnify, defend (at the request of Alamy) and hold Alamy and its sub-licensees and assigns harmless against any prejudice, damage, liability or costs (including reasonable lawyers’ fees) which any of the indemnified parties incur arising from or in respect of any claim that there has been a breach of your representations, obligations and warranties in this Contract. This paragraph will remain in force after the termination of this Contract."

http://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor.asp

 

Good luck.

 

GI

[Martin P Wilson]

A few years ago I recall Warner going after a youngster who had painted the family's (and possibly neighbours', with their blessing) garage doors with characters from their cartoons. (They were very good copies). Disney too are hard nosed about it ...

http://www.snopes.com/disney/wdco/daycare.asp

 

I suspect they like such publicity as it probably helps dissuade others from copying their IP.

 

The royalties from licencing and merchandising can be enormous so studios are very protective.

[edouardcoleman]

Ok thanks for those informations!

[edouardcoleman]

So are you telling me not to trust Alamy?

[Martin P Wilson]

So are you telling me not to trust Alamy?

Not really, but like most libraries their terms put an unreasonable onus on the photographer even though we cannot know how it will be used or the law in the country of use.

 

Alamy does have a clear out from time to time of images (usually logos) and can actually be overly strict on the intepretation on what constitutes potential infringement of others IP (and a bit patchy about who is included). Search for threads about Olympics or London Transport logos, the latter comes up most years!

[spacecadet]

So are you telling me not to trust Alamy?

Not at all. Alamy is protected by the user agreement. What it tells you about licence type and releases isn't legally watertight permission to submit images containing IP you don't own.

You don't own the copyright in the Star Wars or Batman images and you don't have permission from those who do. You therefore run a risk, at best of Alamy being asked to remove them, which it will, and at worst of legal action.

Or as Martin says Alamy will take them down proactively to protect itself.

[Robert M Estall]

As you are clearly determined to chance your hand with these images, I would consider insuring yourself against suits. They could be eye-watering! Or you could take a chance with drawing a certain mouse and wait to see how heavily the sky might fall on you.

[edouardcoleman]

 

So are you telling me not to trust Alamy?

Not at all. Alamy is protected by the user agreement. What it tells you about licence type and releases isn't legally watertight permission to submit images containing IP you don't own.

You don't own the copyright in the Star Wars or Batman images and you don't have permission from those who do. You therefore run a risk, at best of Alamy being asked to remove them, which it will, and at worst of legal action.

Or as Martin says Alamy will take them down proactively to protect itself.

 

 

I ask that because everybody here says me there is a risk while Alamy says me its safe as they have a special formula for people who sells images with IP without property releases

[Sprocket]

 

 

So are you telling me not to trust Alamy?

Not at all. Alamy is protected by the user agreement. What it tells you about licence type and releases isn't legally watertight permission to submit images containing IP you don't own.

You don't own the copyright in the Star Wars or Batman images and you don't have permission from those who do. You therefore run a risk, at best of Alamy being asked to remove them, which it will, and at worst of legal action.

Or as Martin says Alamy will take them down proactively to protect itself.

 

 

I ask that because everybody here says me there is a risk while Alamy says me its safe as they have a special formula for people who sells images with IP without property releases

 

 

 

Perhaps you should take another look at section 1.4.1 of the Contributor Contract which you agreed to when you signed up to Alamy

 

 

 

1.4 Under this contract you must

1. 1.4.1 Be the Copyright owner of the Images or have authority from the Copyright owner to enter into the Contract.

 

http://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor.asp

[Jill Morgan]

 

 

 

So are you telling me not to trust Alamy?

Not at all. Alamy is protected by the user agreement. What it tells you about licence type and releases isn't legally watertight permission to submit images containing IP you don't own.

You don't own the copyright in the Star Wars or Batman images and you don't have permission from those who do. You therefore run a risk, at best of Alamy being asked to remove them, which it will, and at worst of legal action.

Or as Martin says Alamy will take them down proactively to protect itself.

 

 

I ask that because everybody here says me there is a risk while Alamy says me its safe as they have a special formula for people who sells images with IP without property releases

 

 

 

Perhaps you should take another look at section 1.4.1 of the Contributor Contract which you agreed to when you signed up to Alamy

 

 

 

1.4 Under this contract you must

1. 1.4.1 Be the Copyright owner of the Images or have authority from the Copyright owner to enter into the Contract.

 

http://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor.asp

 

 

He is the copyright owner of the images he submits, he is not the copyright owner of the IP in his images. 

 

How is this different from photographic images of IP? There are thousands on Alamy, all selling RM without releases.

 

Jill

[giphotostock]

 

 

So are you telling me not to trust Alamy?

Not at all. Alamy is protected by the user agreement. What it tells you about licence type and releases isn't legally watertight permission to submit images containing IP you don't own.

You don't own the copyright in the Star Wars or Batman images and you don't have permission from those who do. You therefore run a risk, at best of Alamy being asked to remove them, which it will, and at worst of legal action.

Or as Martin says Alamy will take them down proactively to protect itself.

 

 

I ask that because everybody here says me there is a risk while Alamy says me its safe as they have a special formula for people who sells images with IP without property releases

 

 

Alamy also has an indemnity clause (quoted above) in the contract that you've agreed to. You understand what indemnity is, don't you?

 

Anyways, you seem to be pretty determined, as Robert pointed... I'd ask Member Services at the very least. Next, I'd get an E&O liability insurance and incorporate the business - your liability risks are going to be high.

 

GI

[giphotostock]

 

 

 

 

So are you telling me not to trust Alamy?

Not at all. Alamy is protected by the user agreement. What it tells you about licence type and releases isn't legally watertight permission to submit images containing IP you don't own.

You don't own the copyright in the Star Wars or Batman images and you don't have permission from those who do. You therefore run a risk, at best of Alamy being asked to remove them, which it will, and at worst of legal action.

Or as Martin says Alamy will take them down proactively to protect itself.

 

 

I ask that because everybody here says me there is a risk while Alamy says me its safe as they have a special formula for people who sells images with IP without property releases

 

 

 

Perhaps you should take another look at section 1.4.1 of the Contributor Contract which you agreed to when you signed up to Alamy

 

 

 

1.4 Under this contract you must

1. 1.4.1 Be the Copyright owner of the Images or have authority from the Copyright owner to enter into the Contract.

 

http://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor.asp

 

 

He is the copyright owner of the images he submits, he is not the copyright owner of the IP in his images. 

 

How is this different from photographic images of IP? There are thousands on Alamy, all selling RM without releases.

 

Jill

 

 

My (not an attorney) understanding is that it matters how prominent somebody's IP is. If it is incidental, you may have a case, if it is a straight copy (with nothing else in the picture, like OP's images) then it is ... well, we all know what it is. It would be interesting to look at what exactly is copyrighted by LucasFilm.

GI

[giphotostock]

 

 

 

 

 

So are you telling me not to trust Alamy?

Not at all. Alamy is protected by the user agreement. What it tells you about licence type and releases isn't legally watertight permission to submit images containing IP you don't own.

You don't own the copyright in the Star Wars or Batman images and you don't have permission from those who do. You therefore run a risk, at best of Alamy being asked to remove them, which it will, and at worst of legal action.

Or as Martin says Alamy will take them down proactively to protect itself.

 

 

I ask that because everybody here says me there is a risk while Alamy says me its safe as they have a special formula for people who sells images with IP without property releases

 

 

 

Perhaps you should take another look at section 1.4.1 of the Contributor Contract which you agreed to when you signed up to Alamy

 

 

 

1.4 Under this contract you must

1. 1.4.1 Be the Copyright owner of the Images or have authority from the Copyright owner to enter into the Contract.

 

http://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor.asp

 

 

He is the copyright owner of the images he submits, he is not the copyright owner of the IP in his images. 

 

How is this different from photographic images of IP? There are thousands on Alamy, all selling RM without releases.

 

Jill

 

 

My (not an attorney) understanding is that it matters how prominent somebody's IP is. If it is incidental, you may have a case, if it is a straight copy (with nothing else in the picture, like OP's images) then it is ... well, we all know what it is. It would be interesting to look at what exactly is copyrighted by LucasFilm.

GI

 

And, of course, photographers are well known for discussing legal matters with other photographers, as well as following legal advise they get from other photographers.

[Jill Morgan]

 

 

 

 

 

 

So are you telling me not to trust Alamy?

Not at all. Alamy is protected by the user agreement. What it tells you about licence type and releases isn't legally watertight permission to submit images containing IP you don't own.

You don't own the copyright in the Star Wars or Batman images and you don't have permission from those who do. You therefore run a risk, at best of Alamy being asked to remove them, which it will, and at worst of legal action.

Or as Martin says Alamy will take them down proactively to protect itself.

 

 

I ask that because everybody here says me there is a risk while Alamy says me its safe as they have a special formula for people who sells images with IP without property releases

 

 

 

Perhaps you should take another look at section 1.4.1 of the Contributor Contract which you agreed to when you signed up to Alamy

 

 

 

1.4 Under this contract you must

1. 1.4.1 Be the Copyright owner of the Images or have authority from the Copyright owner to enter into the Contract.

 

http://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor.asp

 

 

He is the copyright owner of the images he submits, he is not the copyright owner of the IP in his images. 

 

How is this different from photographic images of IP? There are thousands on Alamy, all selling RM without releases.

 

Jill

 

 

My (not an attorney) understanding is that it matters how prominent somebody's IP is. If it is incidental, you may have a case, if it is a straight copy (with nothing else in the picture, like OP's images) then it is ... well, we all know what it is. It would be interesting to look at what exactly is copyrighted by LucasFilm.

GI

 

And, of course, photographers are well known for discussing legal matters with other photographers, as well as following legal advise they get from other photographers.

 

 

I am just stating that he says he has created the vectors, therefore they are his images, just images of someone else's IP. If he has copied these images from elsewhere then submitted them as his own, then he is double risking.

 

Jill

[Johnnie5]

With the vast amount of unauthorized Star Wars inspired art for sale out there I'm not sure I would worry too much. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=star+wars+inspired+art+for+sale&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

[edouardcoleman]

 

 

 

So are you telling me not to trust Alamy?

Not at all. Alamy is protected by the user agreement. What it tells you about licence type and releases isn't legally watertight permission to submit images containing IP you don't own.

You don't own the copyright in the Star Wars or Batman images and you don't have permission from those who do. You therefore run a risk, at best of Alamy being asked to remove them, which it will, and at worst of legal action.

Or as Martin says Alamy will take them down proactively to protect itself.

 

 

I ask that because everybody here says me there is a risk while Alamy says me its safe as they have a special formula for people who sells images with IP without property releases

 

 

Alamy also has an indemnity clause (quoted above) in the contract that you've agreed to. You understand what indemnity is, don't you?

 

Anyways, you seem to be pretty determined, as Robert pointed... I'd ask Member Services at the very least. Next, I'd get an E&O liability insurance and incorporate the business - your liability risks are going to be high.

 

GI

 

I ve already ask them several times and they said me this is safe with the "RM licence/no property releases" attributes. I really dont know what to do...

[edouardcoleman]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So are you telling me not to trust Alamy?

Not at all. Alamy is protected by the user agreement. What it tells you about licence type and releases isn't legally watertight permission to submit images containing IP you don't own.

You don't own the copyright in the Star Wars or Batman images and you don't have permission from those who do. You therefore run a risk, at best of Alamy being asked to remove them, which it will, and at worst of legal action.

Or as Martin says Alamy will take them down proactively to protect itself.

 

 

I ask that because everybody here says me there is a risk while Alamy says me its safe as they have a special formula for people who sells images with IP without property releases

 

 

 

Perhaps you should take another look at section 1.4.1 of the Contributor Contract which you agreed to when you signed up to Alamy

 

 

 

1.4 Under this contract you must

1. 1.4.1 Be the Copyright owner of the Images or have authority from the Copyright owner to enter into the Contract.

 

http://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor.asp

 

 

He is the copyright owner of the images he submits, he is not the copyright owner of the IP in his images. 

 

How is this different from photographic images of IP? There are thousands on Alamy, all selling RM without releases.

 

Jill

 

 

My (not an attorney) understanding is that it matters how prominent somebody's IP is. If it is incidental, you may have a case, if it is a straight copy (with nothing else in the picture, like OP's images) then it is ... well, we all know what it is. It would be interesting to look at what exactly is copyrighted by LucasFilm.

GI

 

And, of course, photographers are well known for discussing legal matters with other photographers, as well as following legal advise they get from other photographers.

 

 

I am just stating that he says he has created the vectors, therefore they are his images, just images of someone else's IP. If he has copied these images from elsewhere then submitted them as his own, then he is double risking.

 

Jill

 

There are copyrighted material inside my images but I created them. I didnt copy them.

[spacecadet]

 

 

So are you telling me not to trust Alamy?

Not at all. Alamy is protected by the user agreement. What it tells you about licence type and releases isn't legally watertight permission to submit images containing IP you don't own.

You don't own the copyright in the Star Wars or Batman images and you don't have permission from those who do. You therefore run a risk, at best of Alamy being asked to remove them, which it will, and at worst of legal action.

Or as Martin says Alamy will take them down proactively to protect itself.

 

 

I ask that because everybody here says me there is a risk while Alamy says me its safe as they have a special formula for people who sells images with IP without property releases

 

Alamy is not saying it's 'safe'. The 'formula' is a policy on licence type for images sold without releases. It has no relevance to the matter of IP ownership.

You are almost certainly infringing LFL's copyright and its trademarks and registered designs.