Tony ALS Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 14 minutes ago, spacecadet said: Porbably not OT at all, there could be many here close to that line. But I believe that rule applies to individuals acting as agents who derive their income from commission, and not to folks such as us who actually produce the goods. It would apply to a picture agency, but not to a contributor to it. IMO. Definitely not gross, it's what you receive. Commission withheld by Alamy is not your income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geogphotos Posted July 23 Author Share Posted July 23 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Tony ALS said: Definitely not gross, it's what you receive. Commission withheld by Alamy is not your income. I have raised this several times previously and I am not sure about that. The income is ours because the images are ours - we then pay Alamy a commission. The website I came across yesterday used the example of somebody selling on Ebay and according to them the gross income was what the buyer paid before Ebay was paid for its services. I'll see if I can find it again. Edited July 23 by geogphotos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geogphotos Posted July 23 Author Share Posted July 23 (edited) Here it is. I have no idea how reliable or accurate it is. Scroll down to the case study of Gabby under the Gross Trading Income section https://www.litrg.org.uk/working/self-employment/trading-allowance Example- working out gross income Gabby receives a payment of £892.50 direct to her bank account from a website which sells her craft goods. However, the website charges 15% fees to sell Gabby’s products and they take this from the income from the sale of her goods before they pay her. Gabby’s actual sales are £1,050 therefore the website fees are 15% of £1,050 = £157.50. So the amount she receives into her bank account is: £1,050 -£157.50 = £892.50 Because Gabby’s gross trading income of £1,050 is more than £1,000, Gabby is not eligible for full relief trading allowance. HMRC will expect her to register for self-employment and complete a tax return. She can still claim the trading allowance on her tax return (instead of her actual expenses) which will reduce her trading income to £50 (£1,050 - £1,000 =£50). Edited July 23 by geogphotos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony ALS Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 3 minutes ago, geogphotos said: I have raised this several times previously and I am not sure about that. The income is ours because the images are ours - we then pay Alamy a commission. The website I came across yesterday used the example somebody selling on Ebay and according to them the gross income was what the buyer paid before Ebay was paid for its services. I'll see if I can find it again. I can assure you that you are only liable for tax on income received. If ebay are claiming the opposite, the ebay commission would be claimable against tax anyway. But I would never put the gross amount of any income where a deduction is made prior to receiving the income. I'm speaking from a professional point of view with my knowledge of the UK tax system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geogphotos Posted July 23 Author Share Posted July 23 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Tony ALS said: I can assure you that you are only liable for tax on income received. If ebay are claiming the opposite, the ebay commission would be claimable against tax anyway. But I would never put the gross amount of any income where a deduction is made prior to receiving the income. I'm speaking from a professional point of view with my knowledge of the UK tax system. Yes the commission is claimable as an expense if you choose that route - that is not the issue. It is whether or not you need to register with HMRC and whether you are eligible to use the Trading Allowance. With Alamy it could be that you only receive £300 or so but the gross income could be over £1000 and you'd need to register. This is according to the website I found above. EDIT) They seem legit The Low Incomes Tax Reform Group is an initiative of the Chartered Institute of Taxation Edited July 23 by geogphotos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony ALS Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 (edited) This is where the multi layered UK tax system is a nightmare. The ability to claim the 'Trading Allowance' is what the article is referring to. There are advantages and disadvantages to this route and this is where the £1,000 limit for registration needs to be worked out. The principle of what is taxable is different. £300 of income would not be an issue and you would not have to register whatever the gross income is from Alamy. You would be wasting your time going for the 'Trading Allowance' in the first place which can and should be ignored. Edited July 23 by Tony ALS Added content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geogphotos Posted July 23 Author Share Posted July 23 14 minutes ago, Tony ALS said: This is where the multi layered UK tax system is a nightmare. The ability to claim the 'Trading Allowance' is what the article is referring to. There are advantages and disadvantages to this route and this is where the £1,000 limit for registration needs to be worked out. The principle of what is taxable is different. £300 of income would not be an issue and you would not have to register whatever the gross income is from Alamy. You would be wasting your time going for the 'Trading Allowance' in the first place which can and should be ignored. It is not relevant to me personally. But the possible requirement to register with HMRC may well be relevant to other Alamy contributors even if they do not consider themselves to be self-employed and appear to be way below the £1000 threshold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony ALS Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 23 minutes ago, geogphotos said: EDIT) They seem legit The Low Incomes Tax Reform Group is an initiative of the Chartered Institute of Taxation Edited 16 minutes ago by geogphotos The website is legit of course. It might be worth going for the Trading Allowance route for some contributors but it's where it is marginal that it would apply. If you're below £1,000 net consistently you do not need to register for self employment and the gross amount Alamy shows is not relevant. If it's not in your bank account you didn't receive it. Trying to keep it simple. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve F Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 (edited) What if Alamy charged 99.9% commission and you grossed £1000 a year. You can't seriously be registering for tax on net income of £1, it must be for £1,000+ of net income. I'm sure we've had this conversation before and concluded it's off net income to you. Edited July 23 by Steve F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony ALS Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 3 minutes ago, Steve F said: What if Alamy charged 999% commission and you grossed £1000 a year. You can't seriously be registering for tax on net income of £1, it must be for £1,000+ of net income. I'm sure we've had this conversation before and concluded it's off net income to you. Absolutely right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geogphotos Posted July 23 Author Share Posted July 23 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Steve F said: What if Alamy charged 99.9% commission and you grossed £1000 a year. You can't seriously be registering for tax on net income of £1, it must be for £1,000+ of net income. I'm sure we've had this conversation before and concluded it's off net income to you. I'm just the messenger.....what matters is what HMRC rules say not what the forum reckons. Edited July 23 by geogphotos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony ALS Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 (edited) 54 minutes ago, geogphotos said: I'm just the messenger.....what matters is what HMRC rules say not what the forum reckons. Correct, and I have dealt with HMRC for more than 30 years. I can assure you that unless your income is above £1,000 net from Alamy or any other agency or any other 'casual' self employed income then you don't need to register for self employment or report this income to HMRC. It's more and more difficult to talk to anyone at HMRC these days due to massive understaffing but they are generally easy to talk to and will clarify the situation for you if you have the patience to wait to get through. Anyone who has doubts about their individual tax situation should seek professional advice or talk to HMRC. Edited July 23 by Tony ALS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geogphotos Posted July 24 Author Share Posted July 24 The only point would be if using these rules to register with HMRC gave any tax advantages such as being allowed to offset more expenses. As I’ve said it doesn’t affect me personally and I have no axe to grind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKuzmin Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 (edited) On 23/07/2024 at 05:31, geogphotos said: Example- working out gross income Sorry if offtopic. Whenever I get tax forms from stock agencies (I do not remember if Alamy is one of these), they reflect only my net income. It's the US. Edited July 24 by IKuzmin Revisited on tax forms from Alamy vs other agencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 9 minutes ago, IKuzmin said: Whenever I get tax forms from Alamy... I live USA & never get tax forms from Alamy. Since joining 2004. I must manually determine me net Alamy $$ yearly. Who else in USA gets tax forms from Alamy? What are they? 1099s? Other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geogphotos Posted July 24 Author Share Posted July 24 (edited) 25 minutes ago, IKuzmin said: Sorry if offtopic. Whenever I get tax forms from Alamy and other stock agencies, they reflect only my net income. It's the US. Edit) Going to revise this. Edited July 24 by geogphotos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Ventura Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 20 minutes ago, Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg said: I live USA & never get tax forms from Alamy. Since joining 2004. I must manually determine me net Alamy $$ yearly. Who else in USA gets tax forms from Alamy? What are they? 1099s? Other? I am a U.S. taxpayer and have never received an income reporting form from Alamy. I self report on my tax return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKuzmin Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Jeffrey Isaac Greenberg said: I live USA & never get tax forms from Alamy. 23 minutes ago, Michael Ventura said: I am a U.S. taxpayer and have never received an income reporting form from Alamy. I self report on my tax return. I may need to revisit this, I might mix Alamy with other agencies from which definitely receive the forms. And yes, these are 1099. Edited July 24 by IKuzmin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCat Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 I also receive no info from Alamy. I keep a record of the net I actually get each month. I also have to do the same for my cat-sitting. Paulette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now