Cloud based Lightroom, who what where why when?

[Steve F]

Hey Alamy buddies,

The motherboard on my expensive (old) laptop has gone, will be at least £400 for a replacement, plus labour. Drag... May not get it repaired. I have another laptop, but I can't (not possible) install Lightroom Classic on it. Does anyone use the cloud based version of Lightroom? 

Do you need any software installed on your machine to run it?

How about speed of your machine's processor, is that a factor?

 

Basically, I know nothing about this, would appreciate any advice from someone using cloud based LR.

Steve

[MDM]

Check out the following link for a very good analysis of the features of Lightroom (Cloud version) v Lightroom Classic. The basic conclusion is that, while it has advanced a lot since its inception, Lightroom is still a cut down version of Lightroom Classic and is aimed primarily at consumer rather than pro or semi-pro level. It lacks a lot of features as summarised in the table in the article.

 

https://photographylife.com/lightroom-classic-vs-lightroom-cc#:~:text=To sum it up%3A,organization features than Lightroom Classic

 

I don't know about speed of Lightroom but I suspect it would primarily depend on the speed of your internet connection but maybe it also use your own machine to do its thing. Ultimately it might be bite the bullet time and then there is the issue of whether it's worth it repairing an old and outdated laptop (I recall the Denoise conversation).

[Steve F]

Thanks Michael. I'm looking at biting the bullet... 🤦‍♂️

[MDM]

If you are thinking about a new laptop do consider a Mac. The silicon Macs are way better than Windows laptops and some (MacBook Pros with XDR screens) have a feature that is not available on Windows - the new HDR editing mode in Lightroom. This is brand new and revolutionary. Just mentioning it as it is definitely going to be the next big thing in photo editing. 

[Steve F]

Thanks Michael, I'll stick with the devil I know. I've ordered an updated version of my current Dell XPS15:

 

Processor

13th Gen Intel® Core™ i7-13700H (24 MB cache, 14 cores, up to 5.00 GHz Turbo)

Operating System

Windows 11 Home, English, Dutch, French, German, Italian

Graphics

NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 4060, 8 GB GDDR6

Memory

32 GB: 2 x 16 GB, DDR5, 4800 MT/s

Storage

1 TB, M.2, PCIe NVMe, SSD

Display

15.6", 3.5K 3456x2160, 60Hz, OLED, Touch, Anti-Reflect, 400 nit, InfinityEdge

Keyboard

English UK backlit keyboard

[M.Chapman]

1 hour ago, Steve F said:

Thanks Michael, I'll stick with the devil I know. I've ordered an updated version of my current Dell XPS15:

 

Processor

13th Gen Intel® Core™ i7-13700H (24 MB cache, 14 cores, up to 5.00 GHz Turbo)

Operating System

Windows 11 Home, English, Dutch, French, German, Italian

Graphics

NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 4060, 8 GB GDDR6

Memory

32 GB: 2 x 16 GB, DDR5, 4800 MT/s

Storage

1 TB, M.2, PCIe NVMe, SSD

Display

15.6", 3.5K 3456x2160, 60Hz, OLED, Touch, Anti-Reflect, 400 nit, InfinityEdge

Keyboard

English UK backlit keyboard

Out of interest, how much is it costing? About £2,000?

[Steve F]

5 minutes ago, M.Chapman said:

Out of interest, how much is it costing? About £2,000?

 

Ha ha, good guess, you're £1 off!

[M.Chapman]

On 19/11/2023 at 15:53, Steve F said:

 

Ha ha, good guess, you're £1 off!

 

That's quite a budget and a pretty potent machine, you'll surely notice a jump in performance. Not sure what I'll upgrade to next, but I'm sure it will be Mac based. At some point I'll have to upgrade my 2017 iMac (Intel with 1TB SSD) and 2020 MacBook Air. I'll probably revert back to a single computer setup using a small M2 or M3 series Macbook Air or Pro with decent 27" external 4K or 5K monitor.

 

Mark

Edited December 11, 2023 by M.Chapman

[Steve F]

12 hours ago, M.Chapman said:

 

That's quite  budget and a pretty potent machine, you'll surely notice a jump in performance. Not sure what I'll upgrade to next, but I'm sure it will be Mac based. At some point I'll have to upgrade my 2017 iMac (Intel with 1TB SSD) and 2020 MacBook Air. I'll probably revert back to a single computer setup using a small M2 or M3 series Macbook Air or Pro with decent 27" external 4K or 5K monitor.

 

Mark

 

Thanks Mark. Seemed quite expensive to me, but then the equivalent Macbook price is well over £1000 more for the same spec. 

[MDM]

40 minutes ago, Steve F said:

 

Thanks Mark. Seemed quite expensive to me, but then the equivalent Macbook price is well over £1000 more for the same spec. 

 

The MacBook Pros all have XDR mini-LED screens (up to 1600 Nits) and that is what enables HDR editing (video and stills) together with the ability to interpret PQ and HLG technologies. There is no Windows equivalent at the moment as far as I am aware. It is the ability to edit in HDR (not to be confused with HDR merging) recently introduced in Lightroom and a little while back in ACR/Photoshop that is revolutionary. It will be years before this becomes mainstream but it is nice to be at the forefront of something that has to be seen to be believed. 

 

Best of luck anyway. I'm sure your new machine will get you many years of happy photo editing.

Edited November 20, 2023 by MDM

[Martin L]

3 hours ago, MDM said:

There is no Windows equivalent at the moment as far as I am aware. It is the ability to edit in HDR (not to be confused with HDR merging) recently introduced in Lightroom and a little while back in ACR/Photoshop that is revolutionary.

From this blog:

https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2023/10/10/hdr-explained

 

"What do I need to get started?

To use the new HDR features in our desktop apps, you need an HDR display and a supported graphics processing unit (GPU) — for details, see the GPU FAQ for Lightroom, Lightroom Classic, and Camera Raw. For macOS, I recommend Apple XDR displays, such as the MacBook Pro 14” or 16” (November 2021 or later). For Windows, I recommend using a display with at least a 1000 nit capacity. See the DisplayHDR site for a list of VESA-certified displays with a rating of DisplayHDR 1000 or higher."

 

[M.Chapman]

6 hours ago, MDM said:

 

The MacBook Pros all have XDR mini-LED screens (up to 1600 Nits) and that is what enables HDR editing (video and stills) together with the ability to interpret PQ and HLG technologies. There is no Windows equivalent at the moment as far as I am aware. It is the ability to edit in HDR (not to be confused with HDR merging) recently introduced in Lightroom and a little while back in ACR/Photoshop that is revolutionary. It will be years before this becomes mainstream but it is nice to be at the forefront of something that has to be seen to be believed. 

 

Best of luck anyway. I'm sure your new machine will get you many years of happy photo editing.

One of the things I find ironic about the new HDR capable displays is that it's often stated that photo editing is best done on a display that is set to quite a low brightness, which thereby reduces the contrast ratio/dynamic range available (because the blacks on an ordinary screen aren't that black). Whereas setting the screen to max brightness, working in a brighter room and tweaking the contrast curve can achieve a better contrast ratio/dynamic range. I wonder how much "hype" there was about AdobeRGB when it was introduced when the differences between correctly rendered sRGB and AdobeRGB of real world/natural landscapes is not that great? The new HDR displays are IMO a much bigger step forward. Now what we need is HDR paper/ink so the prints look better too....

 

Mark 

[MDM]

3 hours ago, M.Chapman said:

One of the things I find ironic about the new HDR capable displays is that it's often stated that photo editing is best done on a display that is set to quite a low brightness, which thereby reduces the contrast ratio/dynamic range available (because the blacks on an ordinary screen aren't that black).

 

Now what we need is HDR paper/ink so the prints look better too...

 

Mark 

 

The reason for setting the display dark is printing, if you want the image on screen to look similar to the print. I learnt this a long time ago when I started tryng to produce decent inkjet prints - if the screen is too bright, the prints will be too dark. 

 

When I look at a an SDR image on screen and then at the equivalent HDR image, it is similar in some ways to looking at a print and then looking at a projected slide of the same image. It lights up. 

 

HDR printing is conceptually impossible as the max dynamic range of a print is determined by the whiteness and blackness of the paper as well as the strength of the light used to view it. I guess the closest thing would be good quality backlit display prints.

 

 

[MDM]

7 hours ago, Martin L said:

From this blog:

https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2023/10/10/hdr-explained

 

"What do I need to get started?

To use the new HDR features in our desktop apps, you need an HDR display and a supported graphics processing unit (GPU) — for details, see the GPU FAQ for Lightroom, Lightroom Classic, and Camera Raw. For macOS, I recommend Apple XDR displays, such as the MacBook Pro 14” or 16” (November 2021 or later). For Windows, I recommend using a display with at least a 1000 nit capacity. See the DisplayHDR site for a list of VESA-certified displays with a rating of DisplayHDR 1000 or higher."

 

 

I was talking specifically about laptops. From what I have read, Windows laptops are somewhat behind in the true HDR field. I also read that Windows implemention of colour management in relation to HDR (specifically video which has been around a lot longer than HDR stills editing) is wanting. I could be wrong of course. I don't claim infallibility.

 

In any case, from the specs listed by Steve, his new machine has a max luminance of 400 Nits which is well below the 1000 Nits spec for true HDR. This is not just about screen brightness either. It is also a requirement that the display can properly interpret the HDR signal sent from the computer.

 

Just to be clear I don't have any personal agenda in advocating the use of specific Macs for this very new technology. I happened to already have an XDR Mac, which I got a couple of years ago primarily for video editing, and I was delighted to discover that Adobe have introduced the ability to edit HDR stills. I had been using Final Cut Pro (Apple's video editing app) to experiment with HDR stills editing and it works and works well, but having the ability to do HDR stills editing in software designed for the purpose is a real boon.

 

As more people join in, whatever OS they use, this is going to be a very big thing and it is very exciting to be there at the start. Not many people are using this tech yet so I just enjoy passing on the good news. I do think it is wise now for serious photographers to consider HDR stills editing when purchasing new equipment. I would be interested to know what WIndows laptops can actually be used for true HDR stills editing.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by MDM

[M.Chapman]

10 hours ago, MDM said:

HDR printing is conceptually impossible as the max dynamic range of a print is determined by the whiteness and blackness of the paper as well as the strength of the light used to view it. I guess the closest thing would be good quality backlit display prints.

Perhaps they will add some of that carbon nano-tube ultra-black pigment in the photo-black ink in the future so that it becomes more non-reflective. That would bump up the dynamic range a bit. Trouble is printer inks are already expensive enough... Certainly having a decent photo-black ink makes a big difference to a print in my experience, it seems to "lift" the mid tones and highlights by emphasising the contrast.

 

Mark

[Stuwhitt]

Lightroom Cloud's metadata support is very limited to say the least, if you're supplying stock then Classic is the way to go.

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Stuwhitt