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Allan Bell

Printing photos at home or in the office

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1 hour ago, MDM said:

 

All the main paper manufacturers (Canson, Permajet etc) sell A4 sample packs with a few sheets of each of their different papers. That is the the best way to check out what you like - different papers suit different subjects as well so you are unlikely to use the same paper for everything.

 

Yes thanks. I noted that in the videos above.

 

Allan

 

 

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14 hours ago, Allan Bell said:

 

Yes thanks. I noted that in the videos above.

 

Allan

 

 

 

I didn't watch the videos - just a general tip from me.

 

19 hours ago, Foreign Export said:

 

Pro10S and Canon Pro paper works great for me

Unfortunately the new version of Lightroom doesn't support Print Studio Pro - so haven't been able to print that way of late

 

The Print Module in Lightroom used in conjunction with the Develop Module Soft Proofing provides some very advanced features if using a colour-managed workflow with custom printer profiles - worth checking out if you haven't done so.

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3 hours ago, MDM said:

 

I didn't watch the videos - just a general tip from me.

 

 

Thank you.

 

Allan

 

 

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On 05/04/2018 at 08:48, MDM said:

 

I didn't watch the videos - just a general tip from me.

 

 

The Print Module in Lightroom used in conjunction with the Develop Module Soft Proofing provides some very advanced features if using a colour-managed workflow with custom printer profiles - worth checking out if you haven't done so.

 

Hi MDM I have just sent an Email to you. Can you check your inbox and or Junk folder please.

 

Allan

 

 

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5 hours ago, Allan Bell said:

 

Hi MDM I have just sent an Email to you. Can you check your inbox and or Junk folder please.

 

Allan

 

 

 

Nothing received here I'm afraid spam or otherwise. You must have sent it to somebody else if it didn't bounce back.

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I used a high end pro Epson printer when I was a photo assistant and hated it - I had to drive it in to the shop too many times. We had a regular Epsom at home. One of the original Epsom ink tanks that came with the printer exploded when my husband removed it and it destroyed a very expensive shirt and sweater, so I swore off Epson years ago.

 

I bought the Canon Pixma Pro-10 and have used both the Canon Platinum glossy paper and various Moab and Canson infinity papers for color printing with excellent results. I also use the Ilford Gold "true black and white" paper for my black and white images and even a few NYC galleries (at a portfolio review) remarked at how cool it was that I was using film. Love that Ilford paper and the Moab and Canson are also gorgeous - the Moab was very nice for black and white too - even the Canon Premium glossy is lovely depending upon the print. Many have been matted and framed for shows (and some sold, more that recouping my investment with a single sale), some are loose prints for my portfolio, some prints for clients on commissioned work.

 

I use my regular business printer (a Canon MX290) and the many boxes of free matte paper that Canon sent me whenever I bought ink , for contact sheets, to avoid wasting the pricier photo ink, unless color was critical.

 

I didn't use the printer for a very long time thanks to a lengthy stretch of vertigo. Big mistake. When I finally went to use my printer again (right after the extended warranty ended), I found it was a mess and I need to clean it and waste whatever ink is left - I even have a spare box with inks that are expired - so I'll have plenty to waste.

CLEANING ADVICE PLEASE: Does it make a mess when you run the cleaning process or does all the excess ink end up on the paper? And can I use matte photo paper to run through the machine or should I buy some inexpensive glossy paper? I know you shouldn't use regular paper as it can gunk up the inside. 

 

Until leaving it idle for well over a year, it worked beautifully. I rarely wasted a print. I'd highly recommend it and would buy another if this one turns out to be toast. I have some good labs that deliver overnight but I find I like being able to print fine art work myself (up to 19" on the long side) - it feels more like it's mine and it's also nice to experiment with different papers.

 

Edited by Marianne

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16 hours ago, MDM said:

 

Nothing received here I'm afraid spam or otherwise. You must have sent it to somebody else if it didn't bounce back.

 

I will contact you through your website.

 

Allan

 

 

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theres been some talk of ink pricing etc earlier in thread.

 

BUT... including ink, and paper etc.

 

what would be some average prices for say 8x6 - 10x8 -12x10 etc?

 

ive never home printed, always thought the cost would be too prohibitive, but last time i ran the numbers was a good few years ago now, anyone got any upto date numbers to ponder?

 

i use digitalab in newcastle UK, great lab, there used to be one on my doorstep RGB labs, but this closed about 4 years ago i think not long after i discovered them!

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5 hours ago, skylineboy said:

theres been some talk of ink pricing etc earlier in thread.

 

BUT... including ink, and paper etc.

 

what would be some average prices for say 8x6 - 10x8 -12x10 etc?

 

ive never home printed, always thought the cost would be too prohibitive, but last time i ran the numbers was a good few years ago now, anyone got any upto date numbers to ponder?

 

i use digitalab in newcastle UK, great lab, there used to be one on my doorstep RGB labs, but this closed about 4 years ago i think not long after i discovered them!

 

As you have probably seen I quoted some figures earlier as below:

 

Then £100/87.3 photos = £1.15/ A3+photo    (Sorry I mislead everyone. The £0.60/photo was for the A4 size).

Still less than half the price of the cost of an Epson print. NOTE If I did not use the Chroma Optimiser the cost would be even less.

 

The A3+ paper I am thinking of using (Canson Infinity Rag Photographique 310) costs £99.66/pack 25sheets = £3.99/sheet.

For a cost of £5.14 I can have an A3+ print.

 

Of course that is not definitive but gives a general idea of price per print.

 

There is information on the web where other have done costings and probably more accurately.

 

Allan

 

PS Thanks for the digitalab lead.

 

 

Edited by Allan Bell

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9 hours ago, skylineboy said:

theres been some talk of ink pricing etc earlier in thread.

 

BUT... including ink, and paper etc.

 

what would be some average prices for say 8x6 - 10x8 -12x10 etc?

 

ive never home printed, always thought the cost would be too prohibitive, but last time i ran the numbers was a good few years ago now, anyone got any upto date numbers to ponder?

 

i use digitalab in newcastle UK, great lab, there used to be one on my doorstep RGB labs, but this closed about 4 years ago i think not long after i discovered them!

 

In my experience with both Canon and Epson printers, the figures Allan is quoting are very unrealistic but I am happy to be proved wrong for real world printing. First of all, they are not based on Allan's experience but on figures quoted by manufacturers. Forgetting about any manufacturer bias, thes figures are almost certainly based on continuous printing rather than real world printing where the printer gets turned off frequently and consumes significant quantities of ink cleaning itself which will reduce these figures very signficantly. This is very important and cannot be omitted in approximating the cost

 

It is very difficult to produce real world figures because inks get consumed at different rates depending on what you are printing and what paper you are using as well as the frequency of printing. I am guessing about £3 for an A4 print (12x10 similar) where the paper is 25 -50 pence for Permajet Oyster (an excellent general purpose pearl surface paper) depending on the quantity purchased and the excellent Epson Ultrachrome inks. Epson has taken some very undeserved criticism in this thread in my opinion- my experience is very different. I would be very likely to stay with Epson in the future.

 

So I think if price rather than total control over the process is the most important thing, then stick with your lab. Perfecting the process of printing for yourself has a steep initial learning curve as well as it is vital to know how to use (not necessarily understand) colour management so hardware calibration is effectively essential.

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On 3/30/2018 at 12:30, Allan Bell said:

 

I am wondering how many contributors to Alamy have a printer at home or in their office and actually print off photos themselves for whatever use, the reasons are not important. Also what is the frequency of use?

 

If you would like to advise on the make and model of printer.

Whether it is inkjet or dye printing.

Also the size you would normally print and what size the machine will go up to.

Would you recommend your printer to a good friend for their own use, and if not why not.

Are you wanting to replace it with another model or would you replace it with the same model again if you had to.

 

?????

 

Allan

 

 

Allan,

I've been very happy with two models of Epson printers, both using Claria ink. Small one is R260, good for up to 8x12 inches. Mine was purchased used ($15 USD) and the quality of the prints is great. Picked up another one (real cheap, second hand, but unopened) to get the ink. I don't print a lot, so I'm still wearing out the first one and have the unused one as a backup. Then added a larger printer from Epson, refurbished ($179 USD). That one is a Stylus 1400 Photo Printer, printing up to 13x19 inches. I do maybe fifty small prints and a dozen large prints per year, the large ones to sell, small ones to give to models or family.

I've never had a clogged nozzle or an ink mess, even though months go by between printing. It may be due to the small droplet size (1.5 picoliter) and/or the chemistry of the ink, don't know. I use Epson inks and paper almost exclusively and I believe the print quality is high because of the small droplet size, but I'm not a techie. Would recommend to a friend, and have. I would certainly replace with the same models, if I ever need to, but they will be hard to find by that time. 

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Started out with an EPSON1800 printing on INKJET 300gsm art paper.  Still have the printer, but have not used it in years.  I made many signed limited edition prints

for buyers.  Some of the prints I made for myself on the INKJET Rag paper have been hanging for ten years and still look like the day they were printed.  I was also

never happy with EPSON support on the printer and last year bought a CANON Pro-100 and have been using CANON paper.  The Pro-100 is easier to use and I hit it

on the first print more often then the EPSON and CANON support is great, even though I've never had to call them about the Pro-100.  In my opinion there is not much

difference in the cost of printing (ink) between the Pro-100 and the EPSON 1800 and while I still use my CANON FS4000 film scanner, best desktop 35mm film scanner

for the money ever made. I do not own CANON DSLR's and have not used one since CANON changed their lens mount......

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6 hours ago, Chuck Nacke said:

Started out with an EPSON1800 printing on INKJET 300gsm art paper.  Still have the printer, but have not used it in years.  I made many signed limited edition prints

for buyers.  Some of the prints I made for myself on the INKJET Rag paper have been hanging for ten years and still look like the day they were printed.  I was also

never happy with EPSON support on the printer and last year bought a CANON Pro-100 and have been using CANON paper.  The Pro-100 is easier to use and I hit it

on the first print more often then the EPSON and CANON support is great, even though I've never had to call them about the Pro-100.  In my opinion there is not much

difference in the cost of printing (ink) between the Pro-100 and the EPSON 1800 and while I still use my CANON FS4000 film scanner, best desktop 35mm film scanner

for the money ever made. I do not own CANON DSLR's and have not used one since CANON changed their lens mount......

 

The Epson printer you are talking about is somewhat ancient so it is not a fair comparison, as printer technology has vastly improved over the years. Comparing the Canon Pro 100 to the Epson 1800 would be similar to comparing the Nikon D750 with the Canon 20D, two cameras that I have owned and that cost a similar price but are light years apart in their abilities, primarily because of developments in technology in 10 years. While I am a diehard Nikon guy now, it would be silly to go with one or the other company based on such a comparison.

 

A fair comparison would be between the Canon Pro 10S and the Epson SC-P600 which are pitched at the same level in the market and are the currently available models at this level. And such a comparison needs to be about real world usage - one or two prints a week say to allow for ink consumption by cleaning. Nobody here is likely to have both printers unfortunately to enable such a comparison so a lot of this comes down to one's favourite brand. I suspect that real world ink costs will not be a lot different between the two printers, especially if one was to use a high quality third party ink supplier. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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MDM,

 

All I was doing was expressing my own experience.  Not comparing and my point about customer service was made for a reason.

I can not stand companies that do not stand behind and support their products.  That is why I have three Benz's in my drive.

They span three decades and have a total of over 400,000 U.S. miles between them.  I can call MB pretty much anytime with a question

or request for support.  They are all just E-class, nothing exotic.  Also Canon is still trying to support the CANOSCAN's even

a decade after they quit producing film scanners.  If CANON had not changed their lens mount I would still be using their

bodies.

 

Chuck

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2 hours ago, MDM said:

 

The Epson printer you are talking about is somewhat ancient so it is not a fair comparison, as printer technology has vastly improved over the years. Comparing the Canon Pro 100 to the Epson 1800 would be similar to comparing the Nikon D750 with the Canon 20D, two cameras that I have owned and that cost a similar price but are light years apart in their abilities, primarily because of developments in technology in 10 years. While I am a diehard Nikon guy now, it would be silly to go with one or the other company based on such a comparison.

 

A fair comparison would be between the Canon Pro 10S and the Epson SC-P600 which are pitched at the same level in the market and are the currently available models at this level. And such a comparison needs to be about real world usage - one or two prints a week say to allow for ink consumption by cleaning. Nobody here is likely to have both printers unfortunately to enable such a comparison so a lot of this comes down to one's favourite brand. I suspect that real world ink costs will not be a lot different between the two printers, especially if one was to use a high quality third party ink supplier. 

 

 

 

The first digital camera I had was the Canon 20D and when I got that camera was when I started uploading to Alamy back in 2008. It was necessary back then to uprez too, which I hated, as it gave me many failures in the early days. But I have to admit that Alamy were very kind to me in the first few months and did not give me long wait times before uploading the next batch. Maybe they knew I was a novice with digital and wanted me to continue to submit.:D

I have used a few camera brands since then always trying to improve my output and have finally ended up using Sony equipment but it is not a favourite brand, it just provides me with the equipment I am comfortable with and which provides the RAW material which is easy to work with in my workflow.

 

You are right of course in that it would be very useful if one person had used both printers (Epson and Canon) together, and kept some record of usages/costs, to enable people to make a knowledgable decision instead of a subjective one. In most cases of equipment selection it can only be decided upon by the end user after viewing all the available information but it still a subjective decision. (Like me at the moment looking into A3+ printers and electrically driven vehicles).:(

 

I don,t have a favourite brand of anything and always investigate as much as possible the various brands available before making a final decision.-_-

 

Allan

 

 

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On 4/9/2018 at 12:36, skylineboy said:

theres been some talk of ink pricing etc earlier in thread.

 

BUT... including ink, and paper etc.

 

what would be some average prices for say 8x6 - 10x8 -12x10 etc?

 

ive never home printed, always thought the cost would be too prohibitive, but last time i ran the numbers was a good few years ago now, anyone got any upto date numbers to ponder?

 

i use digitalab in newcastle UK, great lab, there used to be one on my doorstep RGB labs, but this closed about 4 years ago i think not long after i discovered them!

 

Another satisfied Digilab user here. They will print again if you are not happy with the results, but, in my experience, they are very good. There is a host of pros, e.g. Joe Cornish,  giving testimonials on the website. 

 

Single A4 £2.59 or bulk 6-19 £1.59 (doesn't have to be the same image) and further reductions for greater quantities.

Single A3 £7.10 or bulk 6-19 £6.70

 

I order online and either cycle through to collect or use my aged person's bus pass, so no delivery charges. You can visit and discuss your needs and they will talk about profiling etc.

 

It appears to be cheaper to use the smallest format possible, in my experience there is no advantage in grouping shots on larger paper.

 

I don't sell prints, and for the number that I make, it makes no sense to own a printer and have the inks dry up or flush through at every usage.  Horses for courses I guess.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Chuck Nacke said:

MDM,

 

All I was doing was expressing my own experience.  Not comparing and my point about customer service was made for a reason.

I can not stand companies that do not stand behind and support their products.  That is why I have three Benz's in my drive.

They span three decades and have a total of over 400,000 U.S. miles between them.  I can call MB pretty much anytime with a question

or request for support.  They are all just E-class, nothing exotic.  Also Canon is still trying to support the CANOSCAN's even

a decade after they quit producing film scanners.  If CANON had not changed their lens mount I would still be using their

bodies.

 

Chuck

 

I probably shouldn't have quoted your post specifically Chuck as I was really thinking about a number of posts in the thread which are comparing different generations of printers which I don't think is very valid as the technology has changed so much over time. Your post was the last one like that which is why I quoted it.

 

As for customer service this can be very subjective depending on one's own experience. I had what was for me a unique and excellent experience with Epson and my 1290 printer back around 2002. The printer was just a year old almost exactly when it started putting weird lines on the prints. I tried all the usual cleaning stuff to no avail so contacted Epson. They sent a guy out to my house a few days later (by which time the 1 year guarantee had run out) and, after messing about for a few minutes, told me the printer wasn't worth repairing and gave me a brand new one on the spot. Now that was great customer service. But funny thing - the next printer I bought in 2008 was a Canon. 

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