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7 hours ago, geogphotos said:

 

You have been saying that for ten years and it hasn't happened yet! :)

 

Ah come on! Ian! why then did Alamy go to the MSG forum and recruited photographers, its no shame but business. This is micro all over and you know it! higher-end but still micro pricing. Whats the difference anyway I could be saying it for another 20 years and during all that time its micro!:)

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6 hours ago, Martin P Wilson said:

 

Aren't the QI, newspaper scheme close to a subscription? And wasn't there mention, on the blog or in response to a CR query , a few montrhs ago of packages and something akin to a subscription. Alamy plays the detaails of its sales arranagement with clients VERY close to its chest.

 

Just askin'

 

Yes Indeed they do, very close!

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1 minute ago, geogphotos said:

 

 

Okay Christian lets do a little experiment.

 

My 15 most recent sales from Alamy are shown here - gross amounts. Just a straight screen shot no editing at all. 

 

Now please do the same for a straight sequence from one of your micros. You could even do some basic statistical analysis to see if the same figures could be from the same sample. 

 

I0000ijUoX_GU.fQ.jpg

 

I know what youre saying but the majority of sales are still under a fiver, same as G! I could show you some of my "single-sales" at the biggest micro during january. $303, $199, $92, $84$89 but still the average sale is OD.2.95 or subs 0.38, so lining up these sales dont mean a thing and you know that but you just wont have it will you?;)

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deleted

Edited by spacecadet

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36cents x 15 for me 

 

i don't see the point though. What I do see, however, is that my lowest performing micro agency is depressingly beating Alamy this month, which isn't difficult considering it's $6 net. 

 

Its fine though, playing the long game which feels like ages.

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Ian! micro-pricing!!  which it is. so tell me whats the difference between the average sale being sort of micro-pricing and a proper micro-agency?? haha! no difference at all is it. Read what Brasilnut above is saying!

Theonly difference is the subscription thingy thats all.

Anyway you cant blame Alamy its either that or bite the dust so to speak. Prices are just falling by the hour, everywhere. Some guy I know had an 0.16 sale at the big G! how about that.

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8 hours ago, christian58 said:

Some guy I know had an 0.16 sale at the big G! how about that.

 

No more than I would delete my images immediately.

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23 hours ago, geogphotos said:

One effect of falling fees is to deter supply. That can show itself in a variety of ways.

 

This is happening and probably explains the recent Alamy blog about stock as a part-time job. 

 

 

The only similarity between contributing to alamy and a part time job is the many hours of hard work.  With a part time job you are guaranteed to earn thousands in year 1. How much does the average newbie earn on alamy in year 1?

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Some guy I know had an 0.16 sale at the big G! how about that.

 

I had a 5cent in January with them and a friend reported a 54cent for a footage download. :unsure:

 

Why do I bother? Some bigger downloads.

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I just see it very simple.

 

The material thing is the money we see in our banks.

 

Agency 1:  500 subs 0.38 cents) 190 USD + (SOD sale) 70USD + (30 miscelanious ales average 3usd) 90USD =  Monthly NET income 350 USD

Agency 2 :  5 sales 100 + 6 + 25 + 50 + 60 =  241 Brutto = Monthly Net income 120 USD.

 

Should i ignore Agency 1 just because of the subs??? We are not doing this for the fun but most to earn something right?  We can wait and wait and wait and loose time and money or just accept both and earn 470 USD.

 

Take what you can :) 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

 

 

The issue is that if you are willing to accept $0.38 cents sales from Agency 1 why would you complain about $24 average sales at Agency 2, or even the $6 sale at Agency 2? 

 

 

I totally agree with the complaining part tough.

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2 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

 

In total 537 images for $470. 

 

Agency 2 is doing well isn't it?

No it is not compared to Agency 1. Because the outcome says much more. Agency 1 gives 3 times more income. Without 1 i will have 120 USD. Without 2 i will have 350 USD. You only loose 75 percent of income every month by ignoring Agency 1. 

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But the thing is i believe they will never stop it. One reason is already that they paid only in 2016  (12 months time) 115 million to contributors. The year before 99 million. Growing trend. End of 2016 it was a total of 500 million. Estimates for now it should be already 650 million paid out to contributors. So it means it is working and will not lead to stop their current business method. Therefore i think Alamy is doing the right thing to adjust a little.

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Supposing I accept the argument that by supporting a lower pricing model we're somehow ruining it for everybody else as argued above. To me this is like saying that because you forgot to recycle some glass and plastic bottles at home you are somehow contributing to the environmental destruction of the planet. While the latter is true, in the grand scheme of things what one individual does or does not not do (recycling) wouldn't make a significant enough difference if you consider how much environmental damage is done in just Indian and China alone.

 

Do my 6,000 images really contribute to a decline in the industry? Am I being selfish if I also contribute to micros? No and no.

 

Why wouldn't I think about trying to maximise my profits? I should, over and above "noble" principles and within contractual obligations. 

 

 

Edited by Brasilnut

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30 minutes ago, GS-Images said:

 

Not the best logic Mr Nut. No one person's images make any difference to the market, but everyone's put together do.

 

 

I think I'll go and rob my local mobility scooter shop. After all, they'll get the money back on insurance and who cares about being noble or having principles? It's all about the money, right? Ok so that's illegal but I'm trying to make a point.

 

My previous post got drowned out of course, but there is still the point of having pride in your work, and selling for pennies doesn't fill me with pride and satisfaction.

 

Geoff.

It is not selling for pennies. Having at least 3 times more on the bank account are not pennies. Pride can be destructible. Loosing 75 percent of income is for me already passing the pride line by far. I really dont agree that somebody earning on micro has no pride. I have pride.. i want to earn 800 instead of 200. Additionally on that subs are in my case 50 percent of the Micro earnings. It is a big myth that it is just subs. Sub licenses are very limited compared to the on demand sales. 

 

I am not mentioning Alamy but there is an other traditional agency that in all life didnt reached so high amount of payout like this micro agency did in one year. This is such a clear fact where the money is.

 

Mirco

Edited by MircoV
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32 minutes ago, GS-Images said:

 

Pennies per image, that is exactly what it is. If I cannot earn enough money, I'll look for alternative ways to make it rather than licensing images. How can pennies per image compensate for the time spent, travel costs, equipment costs, etc. PER IMAGE?

 

If people wouldn't accept such silly fees in the first place, and weren't just in it for short term financial gain no matter what the future cost to the market overall, the stock market wouldn't be in the position it's in now.

 

Geoff.

 

Amount per image is not relevant if the total amount per month is much higher. How can be 200 USD per month more profitable then 800 USD per month basing on the sale per image ?? You spend the same amount of work. For the same amount of work i prefer to have 800 USD regardless how the 800 USD is build. Also you must consider the much higher amount of photos without sales on such traditional sites. Many Zero per image. On most micros the largest percentage of your port will sell and not only subs. I get regular 50+ sales. This are extended license that are similar to a Alamy RF license. 

Edited by MircoV

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Just to add my final.

 

I understand what you are saying. If nobody would have gone that microstock direction the money that exist there would be in the traditional agencies. I think i can understand your pain and fully respect your view in this.

 

But just inmagine today.... a new contributors wants to sell stock. He will check on internet and quickly will figure out where agencies are that creates highest monthly income. I can fully understand that this person will not exclude himself. He will not change the industry by doing so. It is far to late. He will help nobody and hurt himself. Trying to win a lost war. There are top contributors on that micro site that earn close to 1 million per year. They will never give it up. So it is really take it or miss it. It is not being egoistic from my side. 

 

Mirco

 

 

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Ego and pride aside, let's talk about money...that's why we're all here, right?

 

@GS-Images You have some great concepts. I really like your work, a nice combination between strong concepts and editorials.

 

I've singled out the most "microstocksy" images from your port. Many are recent so early days on whether they will sell on here, but I can guarantee you that they would do very well on micros. Such as the following. In fact, the series on the left is really good.

 

UK one way and EU the other concept sign. European Union and United Kingdom signpost. Brexit concept. - Stock ImageSocial media icons on a computer keyboard. Social networking shortcuts. - Stock Image

Out of curiosity and you don't have to answer this but has any of these older and more generic images EVER sold on Alamy?

Freshly painted old British Telecom red K6 model telephone box in the UK. - Stock ImageNowhere concept. Signpost with 'nowhere' and a direction arrow. - Stock Image

 

The reason I ask is that I can guarantee you that would you get a little something forever at micros (not advocating). They're of the generic type and technically excellent, lending themselves for multiple uses. 

 

My question is would you rather get nothing at Alamy and have your pride intact or earn a little bit with them, after all it took work for you to capture, post-process, keyword and upload these.The rule of thumb is $1RPI so even those 2 images above earning $10 a year is better than nothing, you can get one of those tasty pies and a pint at the local pub :) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, GS-Images said:

 

I do understand your point, and I admit it sometimes make me question myself, especially with lower prices these days and more discount options provided at Alamy. Overall though I still come to the same conclusion, but I get the other side too. I'm still learning the facts about MS to be honest, so I can't comment on some of it as I'm not knowledgeable enough to. Thanks for your comments anyway, it does make me think.

 

Geoff.

 

Again i fully respect your opinion. Also i can fully understand you since you are since 2010 on Alamy and it can be a tough thing only to imagine the change. 

Anyway thanks for your openess and your toughtfull opinions. It are the people like you that make this forum very interesting.

 

Mirco

Edited by MircoV
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56 minutes ago, Broad Norfolk said:

Well done Geoff, Mirco and Brasilnut on a civilized discussion!

 

Jim :)

Lets also not forget @geogphotos :)

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3 hours ago, Brasilnut said:

 

My question is would you rather get nothing at Alamy and have your pride intact or earn a little bit with them, after all it took work for you to capture, post-process, keyword and upload these.The rule of thumb is $1RPI so even those 2 images above earning $10 a year is better than nothing, you can get one of those tasty pies and a pint at the local pub :) 

 

 

 

This is a good question. I've had a few "microstocky" images license on Alamy, but most are just gathering dust (unfortunately). 

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17 hours ago, GS-Images said:

 

Pennies per image, that is exactly what it is. If I cannot earn enough money, I'll look for alternative ways to make it rather than licensing images. How can pennies per image compensate for the time spent, travel costs, equipment costs, etc. PER IMAGE?

 

If people wouldn't accept such silly fees in the first place, and weren't just in it for short term financial gain no matter what the future cost to the market overall, the stock market wouldn't be in the position it's in now.

 

Geoff.

 

Well Geoff true it might be pennies, cents this and that but when these amounts to in the region of 3 to 4 grand a month!!  well its a pretty good guy sitting up there in that heaven throwing down pennies and cents.

Hanging around waiting for that in the trad agencies well?? ever heard the expression "pushing Daiseys"?:)

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On 2/17/2018 at 02:01, markbolton said:

 

5 sales on this months statement for $9.16….. 

 

 

So, you have over 15,000 images up and made 5 sales in a month for a total $9.16? Why do you even do this?

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1 hour ago, christian58 said:

 

Well Geoff true it might be pennies, cents this and that but when these amounts to in the region of 3 to 4 grand a month!!  well its a pretty good guy sitting up there in that heaven throwing down pennies and cents.

Hanging around waiting for that in the trad agencies well?? ever heard the expression "pushing Daiseys"?:)

 

We have a television political debate programme on national TV where the host in the beginning says that the more you disagree with other people the kinder you talk. It works.

 

Your very last remark was uncalled for, and by the way not spelled correctly.

 

Niels

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