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Brian Jannsen Photography

Book Publisher use pricing

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I'm at a loss trying to calculate a price quote - I thought I would tap into the collective forum genius for some help...

 

An educational book publisher wants to use one of my images as a two-page spread for a chapter heading.  Their requested terms are:

 

Non-exclusive

Term: In Perpetuity

Includes: Any new editions/revisions, all media (including later use in DVD, or video)

Any derivative works.

They haven't specified an initial print run, but since they're wanting rights forever, I'm not sure the initial print total is vital to my calculation.

 

Essentially, this is an RF type license request.

 

I've attempted use of the Alamy calculator and came up with pricing from $460-$1850.  Any thoughts or suggestions would be welcome!

 

Brian

 

 

 

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I always start by asking potential buyers what their budget is and then go from there.

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36 minutes ago, John Mitchell said:

I always start by asking potential buyers what their budget is and then go from there.

 

Agreed. I had two re-use licenses for a major textbook publisher some time back. I think the client originally requested a RF type license but we eventually settled on  RM. I added up the various uses and billed the client around $1100 per edition. The researcher responded that I could've billed for more.

 

Of course smaller publishers probably won't  have that kind of budget but it never hurts to ask.

 

fD

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1 minute ago, fotoDogue said:

 

Agreed. I had two re-use licenses for a major textbook publisher some time back. I think the client originally requested a RF type license but we eventually settled on  RM. I added up the various uses and billed the client around $1100 per edition. The researcher responded that I could've billed for more.

 

Of course smaller publishers probably won't  have that kind of budget but it never hurts to ask.

 

fD

 

Well done. I've had both pleasant and not-so-pleasant surprises when inquiring about budgets. Also, you have to start somewhere, and using stock agency price calculators to get ballpark figures doesn't work as well as it used to. Mind you, direct sales are few and far between for me these days.

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I haven't had a direct sale in quite some time either. My PhotoShelter site has paid for itself over the years, but they're so infrequent now that I've begun to re-think the money and time spent.

 

I've also had inquiries from people who have no budget for photography. Sometimes I've been able to work with them, sometimes not. 

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14 minutes ago, fotoDogue said:

I haven't had a direct sale in quite some time either. My PhotoShelter site has paid for itself over the years, but they're so infrequent now that I've begun to re-think the money and time spent.

 

I've also had inquiries from people who have no budget for photography. Sometimes I've been able to work with them, sometimes not. 

 

My PS site always used to show a profit. I had some really good downloads and regular inquiries at one time. Even used to sell a few prints. Now it's nothing but tumbleweeds, except for people looking for freebies. Also wondering if PS is worth the annual cost. If I hadn't spent so much time and effort, I'd probably can it immediately.

Edited by John Mitchell

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31 minutes ago, John Mitchell said:

 

My PS site always used to show a profit. I had some really good downloads and regular inquiries at one time. Even used to sell a few prints. Now it's nothing but tumbleweeds, except for people looking for freebies. Also wondering if PS is worth the annual cost. If I hadn't spent so much time and effort, I'd probably can it immediately.

 

 

I think it has more to do with Lattice and the current design than demand. Clients can still search PhotoShelter but the results aren't as straight forward as they used to be. Even if I have a dozen photos that meet the search criteria the Lattice format only shows one. Since PhotoShelter takes a percentage of sales made through their site I have no idea why they decided to take this route.

 

I haven't asked but I suspect most of my more recent sales have come from Google searches. 

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41 minutes ago, John Mitchell said:

 

My PS site always used to show a profit. I had some really good downloads and regular inquiries at one time. Even used to sell a few prints. Now it's nothing but tumbleweeds, except for people looking for freebies. Also wondering if PS is worth the annual cost. If I hadn't spent so much time and effort, I'd probably can it immediately.

 

9 minutes ago, fotoDogue said:

 

 

I think it has more to do with Lattice and the current design than demand. Clients can still search PhotoShelter but the results aren't as straight forward as they used to be. Even if I have a dozen photos that meet the search criteria the Lattice format only shows one. Since PhotoShelter takes a percentage of sales made through their site I have no idea why they decided to take this route.

 

I haven't asked but I suspect most of my more recent sales have come from Google searches. 

 

I just can't imagine trying to upload and organize all my Photoshelter images somewhere else, so even if I didn't break even I don't think I'd give it up. I used to get a lot of assignment work from my site when that was my main focus, and I've had galleries reach out to me via my site, so that seemed worthwhile on its own. And I like how it looks. I don't want to build a new site. For what you get - unlimited archival storage - I think that alone is worth it. And they also attract some good clients (along with those trolling for freebies or trying to sell you photo editing LOL).

 

My most recent direct license was this past November for a quarter page image in the January Coastal Living magazine, the third or fourth time they've licensed from me via my Photoshelter site since 2011. They licensed one image from me via Alamy a couple of years ago for just under half of what they've paid me for similar uses via Photoshelter, but I'm guessing that's because they were licensing a bunch of images and I'm happy to get decent pricing no matter where it comes from. 

 

As to the OP's question:

 

I had an odd book license here (of the same lighthouse Coastal Living just licensed - coincidentally - though from a different trip) anyway, the book image was used full page inside and again on the frontispiece, so I got two licenses. A couple of years later there was a new edition (it was in a travel book, so frequent new editions make sense) and as I was searching around to fill out my DACS form I found it was used again without a new license so I contacted Alamy and was told that notwithstanding their one-time use reporting, the 2 licenses actually covered all new editions. Again, bulk sales may be different than one on one. I had one image in the running for an exclusive book cover for a year via Alamy and the quoted price was $750 or $950 - so you just never know - prices vary so widely. Asking their budget is the best place to start. Good luck! 

Edited by Marianne

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39 minutes ago, John Mitchell said:

 

My PS site always used to show a profit. I had some really good downloads and regular inquiries at one time. Even used to sell a few prints. Now it's nothing but tumbleweeds, except for people looking for freebies. Also wondering if PS is worth the annual cost. If I hadn't spent so much time and effort, I'd probably can it immediately.

 

7 minutes ago, fotoDogue said:

 

 

I think it has more to do with Lattice and the current design than demand. Clients can still search PhotoShelter but the results aren't as straight forward as they used to be. Even if I have a dozen photos that meet the search criteria the Lattice format only shows one. Since PhotoShelter takes a percentage of sales made through their site I have no idea why they decided to take this route.

 

I haven't asked but I suspect most of my more recent sales have come from Google searches. 

 

Sorry double post

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1 hour ago, Marianne said:

 

 

 

I just can't imagine trying to upload and organize all my Photoshelter images somewhere else, so even if I didn't break even I don't think I'd give it up. I used to get a lot of assignment work from my site when that was my main focus, and I've had galleries reach out to me via my site, so that seemed worthwhile on its own. And I like how it looks. I don't want to build a new site. For what you get - unlimited archival storage - I think that alone is worth it. And they also attract some good clients (along with those trolling for freebies or trying to sell you photo editing LOL).

 

My most recent direct license was this past November for a quarter page image in the January Coastal Living magazine, the third or fourth time they've licensed from me via my Photoshelter site since 2011. They licensed one image from me via Alamy a couple of years ago for just under half of what they've paid me for similar uses via Photoshelter, but I'm guessing that's because they were licensing a bunch of images and I'm happy to get decent pricing no matter where it comes from. 

 

 

Yes, PS is very handy for storage and delivering files. Also, the SEO can be impressive. Many of my PS galleries show up on page one of Google searches.

 

It's just not a viable place to license images (for me anyway) any longer. Too bad.

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2 hours ago, Marianne said:

 

I just can't imagine trying to upload and organize all my Photoshelter images somewhere else, so even if I didn't break even I don't think I'd give it up. I used to get a lot of assignment work from my site when that was my main focus, and I've had galleries reach out to me via my site, so that seemed worthwhile on its own. And I like how it looks. I don't want to build a new site. For what you get - unlimited archival storage - I think that alone is worth it. And they also attract some good clients (along with those trolling for freebies or trying to sell you photo editing LOL).

 

 

That's the main reason why I'm still with PhotoShelter. I've tried a couple of other web providers but I have several thousands images online. Moving them would require a good amount of time. PS is more reliable and, most of the times, things work the way they should. I also prefer the PS templates to many of those offered by other providers.

 

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8 hours ago, Brian Jannsen Photography said:

I'm at a loss trying to calculate a price quote - I thought I would tap into the collective forum genius for some help...

 

An educational book publisher wants to use one of my images as a two-page spread for a chapter heading.  Their requested terms are:

 

Non-exclusive

Term: In Perpetuity

Includes: Any new editions/revisions, all media (including later use in DVD, or video)

Any derivative works.

They haven't specified an initial print run, but since they're wanting rights forever, I'm not sure the initial print total is vital to my calculation.

 

Essentially, this is an RF type license request.

 

I've attempted use of the Alamy calculator and came up with pricing from $460-$1850.  Any thoughts or suggestions would be welcome!

 

Brian

 

 

 

 

After throwing some numbers into Foto Quote Pro, I think something around $1500 would be very reasonable.  I've licensed several of my stock images in the last few years and I've found that many times the buyer will not initially reveal their budget but will ask you to come down on your price if they really want your image. 

 

What I have had to do is negotiate a little to come to a compromise on terms and price.  Recently, I was asked to come down about 20% in price for an image and I agreed but we reduced the usage rights by half, from 10 years to 5 years.  I knew full well the end user had no need for the image after 5 years anyway.  I was happy with the sale.

 

Hope this helps.  I'm certainly no expert on this.

 

Rick

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Thanks all!  Some great advice and personal experiences here - I appreciate it!

 

I checked their budget - good call John Mitchell, which was close to the mid point of my range.  I added 250 to their bid, and they went for it. So I feel like we've found a good price. 

 

Fyi, this buyer had licensed an image of mine a while back - through a different agency, and had decided to contact me direct through my website.  I was finally able to see what they paid for the prior image (something i didnt know when starting this post), and factored that into my quote as well.

 

Thanks again - I appreciate the feedback! 

 

Brian

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2 hours ago, Brian Jannsen Photography said:

Thanks all!  Some great advice and personal experiences here - I appreciate it!

 

I checked their budget - good call John Mitchell, which was close to the mid point of my range.  I added 250 to their bid, and they went for it. So I feel like we've found a good price. 

 

Fyi, this buyer had licensed an image of mine a while back - through a different agency, and had decided to contact me direct through my website.  I was finally able to see what they paid for the prior image (something i didnt know when starting this post), and factored that into my quote as well.

 

Thanks again - I appreciate the feedback! 

 

Brian

 

Sounds like you did well. Congratulations.

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13 hours ago, fotoDogue said:

 

I've also had inquiries from people who have no budget for photography. Sometimes I've been able to work with them, sometimes not. 

Funny how there's always a budget for the salary of the person doing the asking, but not for the product they're asking for.

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