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1 hour ago, Brasilnut said:

 

January, I had exactly 400 downloads on a well-known micro agency for $460.24 giving me a total of $1.15 per download average.

 

My work is worth more than $1.15 per image, too! :rolleyes:

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On a major micro site I have almost made as much in 2018 as I did all of 2017 on Alamy of which I had 9 sales. That came to $143.80 for a whole year which really should have been around that for each sale. So the average Alamy sales for me were $15.97

Edited by Marb
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11 minutes ago, Marb said:

On a major micro site I have almost made as much in 2018 as I did all of 2017 on Alamy of which I had 9 sales. That came to $143.80 for a whole year which really should have been around that for each sale. So the average Alamy sales for me were $15.97

Then you have some information about where to direct your efforts.

There's little point complaining about sales of apples when your stall is in the orange market.

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3 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

 

 

But you are willing to accept far lower fees at your micro sites. I just don't understand why you moan about Alamy fees.

I think the total amount is more important then the individual fees. Whats the point to get 2 sales for 100 dollars compared to many small sales for 300 dollars. This is how it looks in Marb case. I would take the money. Details how the money is build...... whatever :).

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2 minutes ago, MircoV said:

And even better just contribute to both. Then he can have 400 dollars ;).

Exactly. There seems to be a black and white on/off view here that it's either one or the other. I have the right to complain about my exclusive editorial non sales here, especially when they are not selling on microstock. I hear people raving about the great fees you earn per sale and am underwhelmed. Perfectly within my right to highlight the fact.

Edited by Marb
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31 minutes ago, Marb said:

On a major micro site I have almost made as much in 2018 as I did all of 2017 on Alamy of which I had 9 sales. That came to $143.80 for a whole year which really should have been around that for each sale. So the average Alamy sales for me were $15.97

Then you have some information about where to direct your efforts. $16 is very low.

But there's little point complaining about poor sales of apples when your stall is in the orange market.

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10 minutes ago, Marb said:

Exactly. There seems to be a black and white on/off view here that it's either one or the other. I have the right to complain about my exclusive editorial non sales here, especially when they are not selling on microstock. I hear people raving about the great fees you earn per sale and am underwhelmed. Perfectly within my right to highlight the fact.

And here is the moment where the @Brasilnut blog comes in place. 

 

Alamy should always be in the list. The second part is a choice and not a crime. You can be exclusive with Alamy but also add more agencies. Alamy seems to be very confident with their business :).

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6 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

 

No that is not my point. My point is that Marb is perfectly happy to accept extremely low fees at other sites yet never stops moaning about higher fees at Alamy.

 

He has been told countless times that Alamy is a long-term business, it just isn't the same as the microstock model of fast results and high volume.

 

I simply don't grasp why he keeps complaining about Alamy on this forum. It is literally pointless. 

To be honest. Complaining never makes point to me also. Alamy just needs different care.....

 

Maybe Marb thinks that the volume is here the same as on Microstock. Every few minutes "BING" a new 100+ USD sale LOL :)

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I do get disturbed at the rancour that is evidenced on this forum at times and sadly it is usually from the same contributors.  It would be good if we could learn to treat one another with respect regardless of how we view the validity of the views expressed here. The following comment is one I have made on another thread but think it also fits in here. I am in a bit of a dilemma.. Alamy is not the only stock agency I use and am enjoying reasonable success with microstock etc. I think I have some personal indicators that some of my images are being viewed and occasionally zoomed on Alamy and then downloaded elsewhere. I have now resolved to keep a percentage of every shoot for Alamy alone to see if that makes a difference. One of the questions I keep asking myself is "Why would anyone pay more for any of my images on Alamy when the microstock market is full of similar and sometimes better images"

My photography is not niche. My subjects are not exclusive and I don't see buyers saying I must have this image and nothing else. Perhaps what I am really saying is that i don't believe in myself enough to go exclusive with Alamy.  Does this reflect the views or feelings of others in any way.

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5 minutes ago, Futterwithtrees said:

I do get disturbed at the rancour that is evidenced on this forum at times and sadly it is usually from the same contributors.  It would be good if we could learn to treat one another with respect regardless of how we view the validity of the views expressed here. The following comment is one I have made on another thread but think it also fits in here. I am in a bit of a dilemma.. Alamy is not the only stock agency I use and am enjoying reasonable success with microstock etc. I think I have some personal indicators that some of my images are being viewed and occasionally zoomed on Alamy and then downloaded elsewhere. I have now resolved to keep a percentage of every shoot for Alamy alone to see if that makes a difference. One of the questions I keep asking myself is "Why would anyone pay more for any of my images on Alamy when the microstock market is full of similar and sometimes better images"

My photography is not niche. My subjects are not exclusive and I don't see buyers saying I must have this image and nothing else. Perhaps what I am really saying is that i don't believe in myself enough to go exclusive with Alamy.  Does this reflect the views or feelings of others in any way.

Thats a great post! 

 

You can also ask a different question. "Why would somebody search on Alamy just to buy a image on Microstock?" I think those people would go directly on micros and not loosing time. Another reason i think Alamy buyers buy on Alamy. There are really a lot of micro photos downloaded and i believe it can happen that sometimes i just happen by coincidence close on zoom at Alamy. 

 

I got a few times situations that an images was bought on Alamy and also on Micro within 1 till 2 days. I dont believe it was the same customer.

 

Mirco 

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6 minutes ago, Futterwithtrees said:

I do get disturbed at the rancour that is evidenced on this forum at times and sadly it is usually from the same contributors.  It would be good if we could learn to treat one another with respect regardless of how we view the validity of the views expressed here. The following comment is one I have made on another thread but think it also fits in here. I am in a bit of a dilemma.. Alamy is not the only stock agency I use and am enjoying reasonable success with microstock etc. I think I have some personal indicators that some of my images are being viewed and occasionally zoomed on Alamy and then downloaded elsewhere. I have now resolved to keep a percentage of every shoot for Alamy alone to see if that makes a difference. One of the questions I keep asking myself is "Why would anyone pay more for any of my images on Alamy when the microstock market is full of similar and sometimes better images"

My photography is not niche. My subjects are not exclusive and I don't see buyers saying I must have this image and nothing else. Perhaps what I am really saying is that i don't believe in myself enough to go exclusive with Alamy.  Does this reflect the views or feelings of others in any way.

 

Respect is a two way process. There is a massive amount of very good advice given withing these forums. Contributors who freely give out the advice get

frustrated  when people continue to moan and do nothing about it except continue to moan and then moan some more.

"amazing drop in sales"    is a thread on SS, sharing lack of sales on the dark side.

 " 31 usd in 14 days of downloads"  would not inspire me to put my images there, nor would Brasilnuts blog.

The Future of 2018 is in everyone's hands whether they have images here, elsewhere or both.

To moan is a negative and will give negative results.

To read and listen to good advice, then try something different would be a more positive approach.

 

Craig 

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1 hour ago, geogphotos said:

 

I simply don't grasp why he keeps complaining about Alamy on this forum. It is literally pointless. 

I agree, and my recommended response is to simply ignore the posts. The more you argue, the more whinging responses you will receive.

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5 hours ago, geogphotos said:

And it is not 'evolution'. It is business not natural selection or social Darwinism, things happen because of human decisions not evolutionary predestination. 

 

Ian, this is the smartest thing you've said in years. I've become so hardened to typical language that I've forgotten this basic truth. 

 

And if you want to be successful, you HAVE to ignore what won't take you there. You MUST go where your market is.

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Still it is not really human decisions. It is more human acceptance.

 

Digital cameras for low price are everywhere and also people that can take good photos. If someone can make a good photo they will most not spend 100 dollars for a photo that they can take themselves but they will visit the city center and take that shot. BUT paying only 5 dollars it is worth to stay home. That is not a decision it is the state of today. To make a photo 100 dollar worth you need to take photos that other can not create. By being super exceptional or having caught something on the other side of the world. 

 

It is the evolution of technology that makes this happen. NOT microstock. Very wise words from somebody we know very well ;). 

 

I think if there would be no microstock there would be still decline of sales on traditional agencies because people have far better access to take great photos themselves. So to keep people not taking themselves photos it has to be worthwhile. 

 

Mirco

Edited by MircoV
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My photography is not niche. My subjects are not exclusive and I don't see buyers saying I must have this image and nothing else. Perhaps what I am really saying is that i don't believe in myself enough to go exclusive with Alamy. 

 

Being exclusive to a non-exclusive agency is just madness in my opinion. If you want to be exclusive to one agency at least choose one that demand exclusivity in return for an attractive rate, curates their image banks and promotes you as a photographer to buyers. 

 

----

 

I agree with Ian and others that complaining does no good and sucks energy out of you and those around you. It's tough enough having to do all the admin (keywording and uploading), only to have no energy left for creative stuff. 

 

I'm not happy to accept low fees (sub $10), far from it, even at high volumes. But I see the reality that it's a buyers' RF market and I embrace it instead of wishing/hoping that 2002 rates will suddenly return in 2018. Soon we'll have mobile phones that can shoot at 20MP, low noise and 4K video. Millions of teenagers in China and India will be happy to give away their great images for free for commercial usage at the likes of Unsplash in return for a chance of publicity or even bragging rights. So perhaps, considering 10 years from now, we're NOW living in the "glory days". Let's make the most of it! 

 

Alamy nor micros aren't my only source of income, I'm trying everything...Print on Demand, Fine Art Rights-Managed, book publishing, affiliate work. Anything to avoid going back to boring corporate work and that pointless rate race. Putting all your eggs in one basket is too risky, as is passively waiting for downloads. I agree with @funkyworm "Product diversification and market diversification (which doesn;t necessarily mean going down the micro route) is now standard"

 

Pleasure knowing you all and @MircoV I look forward to drinking some Polish vodka with you soon to talk about those "glory days of 2018) haha

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2 hours ago, MircoV said:

 To make a photo 100 dollar worth you need to take photos that other can not create. By being super exceptional or having caught something on the other side of the world.

 

That's rubbish.  I've sold a handful of 3 figure images and all of them could have been taken by anyone.  One or two were simple snapshots and/or being in the right place at the right time.  They were all taken within my neck of the woods, one for $128 was taken outside my house!

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3 minutes ago, Colblimp said:

 

That's rubbish.  I've sold a handful of 3 figure images and all of them could have been taken by anyone.  One or two were simple snapshots and/or being in the right place at the right time.  They were all taken within my neck of the woods, one for $128 was taken outside my house!

I believe you totally. I also had several 100plus sales. My point is just ...how many of those sales we are missing out now because of the digital era. In the times that you needed expensive camera to have great technical quality we would had much more of those sales. 

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1 hour ago, Colblimp said:

 

That's rubbish.  I've sold a handful of 3 figure images and all of them could have been taken by anyone.  One or two were simple snapshots and/or being in the right place at the right time.  They were all taken within my neck of the woods, one for $128 was taken outside my house!

 

I've had some $100+ sales of fairly ordinary images shot within strolling distance of my front door. IME it depends more on the market(s) you have in mind than on how exceptional the images are. For instance, I used to have regular $150+ sales on Alamy of images that I had shot mainly with the education market in mind (e.g. textbooks). Sadly, those more lucrative sales have more or less gone the way of the dodo. I still get a fair number of educational use sales, but the prices have dropped considerably (even dramatically). Hmmm... let's see, whom should I blame?  B)

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19 minutes ago, geogphotos said:

 

Microstock was created because it was a business opportunity.

 

People who buy cameras are not forced to supply microstock. Indeed, most owners of cameras and phones do not supply microstock. They have no interest in selling their pics. 

 

You Mirco, Brasilnut, Marb and all the others CHOOSE to supply microstock.

 

That's fine, that's your choice.

 

But given that is the business model you CHOOSE to support please stop moaning about low prices at Alamy when you decide to supply Alamy. 

By surprise +1 from me. 

 

Best answer to all of this.

 

Note that I do respect you a lot. Especially because discussions are very hard with you. You stand for your opinion. 

 

Mirco

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In another thread, someone (think it was Bill in Ontario) said that he planned to submit more microstock-like images to Alamy in 2018. I have no idea what the reasoning was behind his statement, but I found it to be intriguing. Any thoughts on this? Is it a good idea? What does the future hold for this type of imagery on Alamy? At the moment, ms-like pics just seem to languish here (IME anyway).

 

 

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I think the border between alamy and micro is very thin. On known ms agency has 40 million editorial photos. I have the same editorial on both places and sell on both. 70 percent of ms sales are in my case editorial.

 

 

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47 minutes ago, MircoV said:

I think the border between alamy and micro is very thin. On known ms agency has 40 million editorial photos. I have the same editorial on both places and sell on both. 70 percent of ms sales are in my case editorial.

 

 

 

I was thinking more in terms of "design" type images -- e.g. backdrops, abstracts, patterns in nature, textures, etc. What is the future of these types of images on Alamy? They are often featured on Alamy's homepage these days, but I'm not sure how well they sell here. No doubt buyers go to ms agencies for this type of imagery.

Edited by John Mitchell
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Brasilnut says: "Millions of teenagers in China and India will be happy to give away their great images for free for commercial usage"

 

I haven't seen many around rural Suffolk.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2416822/Fake-English-town-China-complete-cobbled-streets-red-telephone-boxes-remains-deserted.html

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To get back to the original point, I  would like to mention that Jan. was a better than average month for me, with 5 sales, four of which were $100+ and the fifth not far off.

My enthusiasm has been re-awakened! :)

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