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Oh, I’m interested, alright. One day, maybe....

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8 hours ago, Betty LaRue said:

Oh, I’m interested, alright. One day, maybe....

 

After you have moved home you might have some time.;)

 

Allan

 

 

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Phantom 4Pro is a nice item....


I have one, and have just done my ground school, theory exam and flight assessment in order to get my PfCO (Permission for Commercial Operation) from the CAA in order to be able to use the platform for commercial purposes

 

 

km

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I’ve been interested for years. First thing that held me back was whether the cameras were good enough. Second was time to learn how to fly. Third was someone knowledgeable to teach me.

The third will soon be available. Since we are moving near my daughter and son-in-law, Ray, who not only flies but has built his own drone, is drooling to teach me. Time might be dodgy. I’ll see.

Considering moving expenses, it might be a while before I could afford one.  I need a new couch and chairs first.

Betty

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4 hours ago, Betty LaRue said:

I’ve been interested for years. First thing that held me back was whether the cameras were good enough. Second was time to learn how to fly. Third was someone knowledgeable to teach me.

The third will soon be available. Since we are moving near my daughter and son-in-law, Ray, who not only flies but has built his own drone, is drooling to teach me. Time might be dodgy. I’ll see.

Considering moving expenses, it might be a while before I could afford one.  I need a new couch and chairs first.

Betty

Do you want a drone for video or for still images?
Get a drone, what do you need a couch and chairs for? They cannot even shoot JPEGs :-)

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Tools before Furniture!

 

I've just started researching drones and the DJI Phantoms seem to be the thing.

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On 1/31/2018 at 14:59, RedSnapper said:

Phantom 4Pro is a nice item....


I have one, and have just done my ground school, theory exam and flight assessment in order to get my PfCO (Permission for Commercial Operation) from the CAA in order to be able to use the platform for commercial purposes

 

 

km

This is very interesting!
Would you care for giving us some info about the school and the exam?
Also, what sort of commercial work you intend to do?

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18 hours ago, funkyworm said:

.Would anyone know whether a commercial drone licence in one EU country allows flying in all, (and outside?) I just happened to be looking at courses on a Belgian site by accident and they seemed to have a different approach than on this side of the border.

 

 

No, each country has its own aviation authority, with their own rules and regulations. Permission to fly commercially is limited to the state which issued the licence. A PfCO from the CAA in the UK doesnt allow me to fly commercially in any other country....

 

km

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4 minutes ago, Justin Case said:

This is very interesting!
Would you care for giving us some info about the school and the exam?
Also, what sort of commercial work you intend to do?

 

 

You have aerial stuff here......you must have already obtained your PfCO and already know about ground schools and the associated examination(s)

 

 

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Sound

43 minutes ago, RedSnapper said:

 

 

You have aerial stuff here......you must have already obtained your PfCO and already know about ground schools and the associated examination(s)

 

 

 

From the question asked I would say that is a no. 

 

Any commercial work etc that you are selling must have had all of the proper permissions. It is a problem that isn't being addressed fast enough.

 

There are some drone shots in a popular landscape photography competition that was announced last year. There are at least two that look as if the rules are broken. One shot is one the main flight path into Heathrow over Canary Wharf.

 

Justin Case. I would be VERY careful as to what you are putting out there as it wouldn't take much to get in trouble if you are not properly insured and have the correct credentials.

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32 minutes ago, funkyworm said:

 

Thanks for the reply. Shame. And living so close to one of the busiest airports more or less prohibits the use locally. Which on the other hand does increase the value of aerial images made from a plane. Ying/yang.

 

 

In the UK, with a sub 7kg drone (which is just about everything you can buy off the shelf)  you dont need permission of Air Traffic control to fly within their controlled airspace, but you would have to be aware of any risk to other aircraft...........and the max height you can fly the drone is 400' (about 130m)

 

The relevant legislation in the UK is the Air Navigation Order 2016 , Sections 94 and 95

 

km

Edited by RedSnapper

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42 minutes ago, Jools Elliott said:

 One shot is one the main flight path into Heathrow over Canary Wharf.

 

As long as it was a sub 7kg drone, with a PfCO , you can fly to within 50m of a congested area .......perfectly possible to do stuff at Canary wharf within the law (proviso: I haven't seen the image that you are refering to)

 

km

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1 hour ago, funkyworm said:

Just thinking about it, on my trip cycling through the UK last year upon leaving Machynlleth and up through the valley to Dolgellau the sounds of low flying fighter aircraft accompanied my exersions. Surely there there are restrictions?

 

 

That area is unrestricted, Class G , airspace, which means planes can fly down to 100' above the ground...It's locally called the 'Mach Loop' and is used extensivelty by NATO air forces for tactical low level flying training...It comes within RAF Valley's AIAA (Area of Intense Aerial Activity), but that starts at 2000' and extends to 6000' (way higher than my drones limit of 400' AGL)
I could still fly my drone there if I was able to satisfy myself that it was safe to do (having checked the NOTAMs for the day , and any other information provided by the AIS). I'd be unwise to do it during active low flying hours - but these are easily discovered by a simple web search. If in doubt i'd just phone RAF Valley ATC or RAF Mildenhall ATC and get clearance. Doing all those checks would be part of my mandatory risk assessment and flight planning , which is a condition of my PfCO from the CAA

 

I've just checked now....no NOTAMs for the area today. Clear to fly my drone in that area with few worries about other air users

 

I'm currently writing my 'Operations Manual' to be submitted for approval by the CAA.  At the moment it's 46 pages long and i've not nearly finished. There's more to flying drones legally in the UK than most people appreciate

 

km

 

they do love TLAs.....three letter acronyms

Edited by RedSnapper
  • Upvote 1

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I bought a drone last year and had it delivered to a (licensed) mate in Yorkshire who was going to give me some lessons, but before I collected it I sold it on.
The reason being I spend a lot of time in Spain, and the fines there are massive if you fly where you aren't allowed, ie on a beach, near any people, or anywhere at night basically.
The cost of obtaining the licence and getting insurance cover in the UK to enable me to shoot commercially would be too high at the moment, but I may reconsider when my circumstances change.

 

BTW: Let's not beat about the bush. 
If Vic hasn't got a licence his shots shouldn't be for sale, it's illegal isn't it?

Edited by mickfly

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1 hour ago, mickfly said:

 anywhere at night basically.

 

 

You can't fly in the UK at night either, not without a special Night Ops permission from the CCA. Which they won't grant without a lot of extra safety provisions ... Nor can you fly closer than 50m of any person 'not under your control'

 

You can fly from 30 mins before sunrise to 30 mins after sunset ....

 

km

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We have seen drones being flown through a massive fireworks display over here in Spain at night, not everyone obeys the rules.

 

When I'm in the UK I live close to many airfields and was checking NOTAMS on a daily basis. I could have flown legally, but, as I said, for me it's not the time.


I collared someone flying over our private property last year and by the time I got to him he was looking straight up at his DJI as it went into the clouds! "It's OK mate, I'm a professional photographer," he said.


"You'll know all about the rules and regs then, ie height limits."

"Yes of course mate, I'm a pro".


He gave me his business card and I looked at his website later


He isn't licenced and was doing video shots over wedding crowds which were absolutely dire quality, never mind the safety and legality concerns.


One of my other reasons for withdrawing from drone use was worries about the mavericks getting the industry shut down.


BTW: I believe that the big G requires proof that you are licenced/insured if submitting aerial shots here don't they?

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Well, 
I really suggest you to watch my next video called:
Why I decided to give up on drones (and I sold mines). You are just wasting your time if you are in Europe (and will be burnt at the stake in the UK).
If you are in America, you are fine: rules are pretty clear and the same rules apply over a good chunk of territory, in Europe they change every couple of miles and anyway they are written in such a fiddly way that you can always be considered guilty, or you can get away with it.
I have not flown my birds for 8 months, when the witch hunt began.
When the fun stops, stop!

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1 hour ago, mickfly said:

video shots over wedding crowds which were absolutely dire quality, never mind the safety and legality concerns.

 

 

If the people are 'under the control' of the operator (as they could well be at a private function such as a wedding)  then it's perfectly legal to overfly them...the 50m seperation requirement no longer applies

 

km

 

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32 minutes ago, Justin Case said:

anyway they are written in such a fiddly way that you can always be considered guilty, or you can get away with it.

 

 

Articles 94 and 95 of the Air Navigation Order 2016, which are the UK laws regarding drones.,  are simple and clear....

 

km

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1 hour ago, mickfly said:

BTW: I believe that the big G requires proof that you are licenced/insured if submitting aerial shots here don't they?

 

This true but I don't know how strictly it s being enforced as I'm, not yet, a drone user. But that is likely to change this year!

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15 minutes ago, RedSnapper said:

 

 

Articles 94 and 95 of the Air Navigation Order 2016, which are the UK laws regarding drones.,  are simple and clear....

 

km

Well, if you consider this simple and clear, you are my hero:
Small unmanned aircraft 94.—(1) A person must not cause or permit any article or animal (whether or not attached to a parachute) to be dropped from a small unmanned aircraft so as to endanger persons or property. (2) The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft may only fly the aircraft if reasonably satisfied that the flight can safely be made. (3) The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft must maintain direct, unaided visual contact with the aircraft sufficient to monitor its flight path in relation to other aircraft, persons, vehicles, vessels and structures for the purpose of avoiding collisions. (4) The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft which has a mass of more than 7kg excluding its fuel but including any articles or equipment installed in or attached to the aircraft at the commencement of its flight, must not fly the aircraft— (a) in Class A, C, D or E airspace unless the permission of the appropriate air traffic control unit has been obtained; 49 (b) within an aerodrome traffic zone during the notified hours of watch of the air traffic control unit (if any) at that aerodrome unless the permission of any such air traffic control unit has been obtained; or (c) at a height of more than 400 feet above the surface unless it is flying in airspace described in sub-paragraph (a) or (b) and in accordance with the requirements for that airspace. (5) The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft must not fly the aircraft for the purposes of commercial operations except in accordance with a permission granted by the CAA.
Small unmanned surveillance aircraft 95.—(1) The person in charge of a small unmanned surveillance aircraft must not fly the aircraft in any of the circumstances described in paragraph (2) except in accordance with a permission issued by the CAA. (2) The circumstances referred to in paragraph (1) are— (a) over or within 150 metres of any congested area; (b) over or within 150 metres of an organised open-air assembly of more than 1,000 persons; (c) within 50 metres of any vessel, vehicle or structure which is not under the control of the person in charge of the aircraft; or (d) subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), within 50 metres of any person. (3) Subject to paragraph (4), during take-off or landing, a small unmanned surveillance aircraft must not be flown within 30 metres of any person. (4) Paragraphs (2)(d) and (3) do not apply to the person in charge of the small unmanned surveillance aircraft or a person under the control of the person in charge of the aircraft. (5) In this article, “a small unmanned surveillance aircraft” means a small unmanned aircraft which is equipped to undertake any form of surveillance or data acquisition. R

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yep..

 

 

clear to me...but then, I have been working on my PfCO so i know this stuff inside out.

 

Thats why you need a PfCO to work commercially - so that  you know what this means...

 

The key  clause, in terms of this discussion is:

 

"5) The person in charge of a small unmanned aircraft must not fly the aircraft for the purposes of commercial operations except in accordance with a permission granted by the CAA."

 

How much clearer do you want it to be?

 

Flying a drone, to take photos, which you the offer for sale, is a commercial operation.....

 

 

km

Edited by RedSnapper

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Can you define the worlds"work commercially"?,
because the CAA stricly avoids doing it

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