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The above conversation is very helpful as I study (wade through) my Lightroom book. I understand that gamma calibration tools are quite expensive. Is there a trick for setting your monitor without paying a fortune?

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I just use the internal calibration tool (win7). I checked it after a suggestion here that some of my images were a bit dark, and hey presto, fixed.

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Awesome - done - thanks! It also calibrated text visibility and darkened down the white a shade.

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1 minute ago, Darkstar said:

Awesome - done - thanks! It also calibrated text visibility and darkened down the white a shade.

FWIW most of your images, on page 1 at least, seem fine- maybe a few blown skies which won't recur now you've turned it down.

Remember to re-do it now and again, or if one of us suggests your images are a bit off!

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1 hour ago, Darkstar said:

The above conversation is very helpful as I study (wade through) my Lightroom book. I understand that gamma calibration tools are quite expensive. Is there a trick for setting your monitor without paying a fortune?

 

Screen brightness is only one aspect of calibration. Colour is just as important and much more difficult to get right although you may never even be aware that your monitor colour is off if you don't print your own stuff. You can buy a basic hardware calibrator for £79 X-Rite Colormunki Smile and a very good one for £179 X-Rite i1 Display PRO. To me that is not at all expensive considering you are using a very expensive camera. To complete the colour calibration package, it is very well worth investing in a gray card which can be used to colour balance when taking a set of pictures and synchronising them in Lightroom later. I find my D800 cameras give consistently cool auto white balance which always needs correcting later.
 Now is the time to think about this just as you are learning and refining your technique, not way down the line when you find you have a lot of images that you wish you had colour corrected in the first place.
 

 

 

Edited by MDM

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1 hour ago, spacecadet said:

I just use the internal calibration tool (win7). I checked it after a suggestion here that some of my images were a bit dark, and hey presto, fixed.

 

It is not possible to categorically state that your screen calibration is off as it could be your camera white balance but a lot of your recent images from Seville look incredibly yellow - something is definitely off there - a lot of them look like they were shot under tungsten lighting. Spanish people do not have yellow skin. A lot of other images on your first few pages also have very strong yellow casts. Believe me, a hardware calibrator and a gray card are well worth the small investment.

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4 hours ago, MDM said:

 

Screen brightness is only one aspect of calibration. Colour is just as important and much more difficult to get right although you may never even be aware that your monitor colour is off if you don't print your own stuff. You can buy a basic hardware calibrator for £79 X-Rite Colormunki Smile and a very good one for £179 X-Rite i1 Display PRO. To me that is not at all expensive considering you are using a very expensive camera. To complete the colour calibration package, it is very well worth investing in a gray card which can be used to colour balance when taking a set of pictures and synchronising them in Lightroom later. I find my D800 cameras give consistently cool auto white balance which always needs correcting later.
 Now is the time to think about this just as you are learning and refining your technique, not way down the line when you find you have a lot of images that you wish you had colour corrected in the first place.
 

 

 

 

All excellent advice!  I use an older Colormunki from X-Rite and it still does the job.  Agree completely that it is money well spent!!

 

I also agree about auto WB being on the cool side.  I've noticed through out the years that Nikon has defaulted a little to the cool side in AWB.  Apparently they got the word that some (maybe most, I don't know), like a little warmer starting point.  The newer pro models, including my D500, now have Auto2 WB that is a little warmer.  I love it because I always found I had to tweak my WB a little on my older Nikons.

 

Rick

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5 hours ago, Darkstar said:

The above conversation is very helpful as I study (wade through) my Lightroom book. I understand that gamma calibration tools are quite expensive. Is there a trick for setting your monitor without paying a fortune?

 

This website may help you to get your basic monitor settings (gamma, contrast and the like) into the right ballpark before you do hardware color calibration. 

Just follow the instructions page after page.

 

This page does not help you with  color calibration of your display for which you need a hardware calibrator like mentioned before. 

 

 

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6 hours ago, MDM said:

 

It is not possible to categorically state that your screen calibration is off as it could be your camera white balance but a lot of your recent images from Seville look incredibly yellow - something is definitely off there - a lot of them look like they were shot under tungsten lighting. Spanish people do not have yellow skin. A lot of other images on your first few pages also have very strong yellow casts. Believe me, a hardware calibrator and a gray card are well worth the small investment.

Seville and Cordoba looked like that last month.

Seriously, with some of these images I was concerned about my usual vibrance/saturation presets but I got  a second opinion and decided to back off a bit on my usual settings but to leave those already done. There are only about a dozen or so images that jump out at me, on reflection, and I don't reprocess.

For some night-time images I have deliberately under-corrected to avoid crossed curves- we might have thought we'd left those behind but we haven't.

Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it, but I don't think I have a calibration problem.

Edited by spacecadet

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6 hours ago, spacecadet said:

Seville and Cordoba looked like that last month.

Seriously, with some of these images I was concerned about my usual vibrance/saturation presets but I got  a second opinion and decided to back off a bit on my usual settings but to leave those already done. There are only about a dozen or so images that jump out at me, on reflection, and I don't reprocess.

For some night-time images I have deliberately under-corrected to avoid crossed curves- we might have thought we'd left those behind but we haven't.

Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it, but I don't think I have a calibration problem.

 

As I said I don't know if it is a problem with the white balance in your camera or with your calibration but you definitely do have a colour balance problem with a lot of your recent images. For example, your shot of the bride and groom (KGG4NR) the skin tones are very very yellow and, although less immediately noticable than the skin tones, the bride's dress has a strong yellow/orange cast. These are not Hispanic skin tones and the dress should be pretty neutral but it has a yellow/orange cast. If it was just this shot I might put it down to the light but it is the same for a lot of your shots (the rugby shots are similar, very yellow casts). If they look neutral on your monitor then you have a colour calibration problem.

 

I'm not saying this to be annoying by the way, I am genuinely trying to be helpful. It was me who originally pointed out that you probably had your monitor set too bright a few years ago. If you would like to post the raw of KGG4NR on Dropbox and maybe a few others if you want, I will have a look for you and be able to determine pretty quickly if it is a monitor or a camera problem. What is for certain is that there is a problem. If you happened to be the wedding photographer and you gave that image to the client, then you could be in line for complaints.

 

 

 

Edited by MDM

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3 hours ago, Rick Lewis said:

 

All excellent advice!  I use an older Colormunki from X-Rite and it still does the job.  Agree completely that it is money well spent!!

 

I also agree about auto WB being on the cool side.  I've noticed through out the years that Nikon has defaulted a little to the cool side in AWB.  Apparently they got the word that some (maybe most, I don't know), like a little warmer starting point.  The newer pro models, including my D500, now have Auto2 WB that is a little warmer.  I love it because I always found I had to tweak my WB a little on my older Nikons.

 

Rick

 

I learnt the hard way as I have had inkjet printers since 1997. I used to print using test strips and trial and error which was very difficult. Adobe hadn't even released Photoshop 5.5 at that point which was, I think, when they first introduced their color management. I learnt how to use color management in Photoshop 6 but didn't get a hardware calibrator until about 2006 or so.  That made a massive difference. Even then, different calibration devices give different results which can come as a bit of a shock - what to trust. And the same device will probably give different results on different monitors. And monitors may not be uniform across the screen. I used to think there was an absolute but having read up a bit it seems like there isn't. But these devices do get you well into the ballpark which is the important thing. I'm no expert on color management but I do know how to use it in practice. For me being able to match prints closely with what I see on screen is sufficient. I have become pretty good at detecting colour casts from looking at my shots of gray cards but it's amazing how the eye adapts. 

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2 minutes ago, MDM said:

 

 I have become pretty good at detecting colour casts from looking at my shots of gray cards but it's amazing how the eye adapts. 

 

How true!  Going back through my images in AIM I am still finding the occasional image with a very slight color (colour) cast.  Look at an image long enough and your brain will tell you everything is just fine.  ;)

 

Rick

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9 hours ago, MDM said:

 

As I said I don't know if it is a problem with the white balance in your camera or with your calibration but you definitely do have a colour balance problem with a lot of your recent images. For example, your shot of the bride and groom (KGG4NR) the skin tones are very very yellow and, although less immediately noticable than the skin tones, the bride's dress has a strong yellow/orange cast. These are not Hispanic skin tones and the dress should be pretty neutral but it has a yellow/orange cast. If it was just this shot I might put it down to the light but it is the same for a lot of your shots (the rugby shots are similar, very yellow casts). If they look neutral on your monitor then you have a colour calibration problem.

 

I'm not saying this to be annoying by the way, I am genuinely trying to be helpful. It was me who originally pointed out that you probably had your monitor set too bright a few years ago. If you would like to post the raw of KGG4NR on Dropbox and maybe a few others if you want, I will have a look for you and be able to determine pretty quickly if it is a monitor or a camera problem. What is for certain is that there is a problem. If you happened to be the wedding photographer and you gave that image to the client, then you could be in line for complaints.

 

 

 

Thanks but as I said I think it's my export settings. If I back them off in LR they look quite different.

I see what you mean about white balance though, some of my AWB values do seem to be a bit high. It seems to be peculiar to sunlit shots in Andalucia and Toulouse- the autumn light was lovely. I must have fallen in love with it.

I don't think my monitor can be hardware calibrated. It's never been a problem before.

I'd like to share the RAW but can't get Dropbox to install- is there an alternative?

 

Edited by spacecadet

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I'm afraid I don't know any alternatives to Dropbox for posting raws or why it won't install - perhaps an antivirus issue.  Wim suggested it a while back and it is useful.

 

I think the yellow colour casts I'm seeing are most probably to do with the AWB setting on your camera rather than anything to do with your monitor - is this showing As Shot  in LR? The casts are most obvious in the skin tones of many of your pics from Seville and Toulouse but also present in your Hitchcock Hotel shot and they are very strong. It looks to me like something changed in your pictures around October 19th - certainly most of your pictures on Page 1 but some on Page 2 and 3 as well. I'm not talking about night or indoor shots where colours are difficult to judge because of tungsten and other lighting but some of the buildings also look far more yellow to me than I would guess they should. However, it is the skin tones that really give it away for sure. Nobody has such yellow skin in daylight unless they have severe liver problems :)

 

So it might be wise for you to get to the bottom of it before you take/develop too many more pics as there is something consistently not right. I'll leave it there as I do not want to be a pest - as I said I am only commenting to try to be helpful. 

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I've found it- finger trouble.

Some idiot had fine-tuned the AWB over to maximum amber. What a clot:lol:

No idea how I did that- I didn't even know the adjustment was available. Perhaps I leaned on it in the Alhambra, as you do, or not enough blood in the alcohol stream that day. Come to think of it, I did think I had my lush filter on while I

Many thanks for the spot. I think I'll live with the jaundiced view because apart from the skin tones I rather like the light. I was obviously beguiled by it. Come to think of it, I do remember thinking I had my lush filter on while I was there. I'll probably ditch the ones I haven't tagged yet, though.

Edit: LR says yes, fixed. WB was 74 mireds off. Ouch.

Edited by spacecadet
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2 hours ago, spacecadet said:

I've found it- finger trouble.

Some idiot had fine-tuned the AWB over to maximum amber. What a clot:lol:

No idea how I did that- I didn't even know the adjustment was available. Perhaps I leaned on it in the Alhambra, as you do, or not enough blood in the alcohol stream that day. Come to think of it, I did think I had my lush filter on while I

Many thanks for the spot. I think I'll live with the jaundiced view because apart from the skin tones I rather like the light. I was obviously beguiled by it. Come to think of it, I do remember thinking I had my lush filter on while I was there. I'll probably ditch the ones I haven't tagged yet, though.

Edit: LR says yes, fixed. WB was 74 mireds off. Ouch.

 

Good you figured it out. I was going to suggest something like that. There is no need to ditch existing pictures as it should be very simple to correct them if they are all raw. You should just need to set WB to somewhere like it should be and sync across the images in LR. I've accidentally changed WB a few times to Tungsten and I've simply reset it correctly in LR and synced. The incorrect WB won't have any effect on the images but It would be a big problem if they were JPEGs.


If it were me, I would redo the ones you'e uploaded with people in them - similar thing - just change the WB manually in Lightroom on one and sync across the others. I expect you should just be able to directly swap the pics if you ask Alamy.

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1 minute ago, MDM said:

If it were me, I would redo the ones you'e uploaded with people in them - similar thing - just change the WB manually in Lightroom on one and sync across the others. I expect you should just be able to directly swap the pics if you ask Alamy.

 

Or maybe leave them in, to see if clients maybe  like this look.

Check the competition on the page where your images have landed. Do you want to look like the others or not?

 

wim

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38 minutes ago, wiskerke said:

 

Or maybe leave them in, to see if clients maybe  like this look.

Check the competition on the page where your images have landed. Do you want to look like the others or not?

 

wim

 

The buildings maybe but I'm not sure the jaundiced bride look will be a hit. Who knows? Perhaps Mark is on to something. 

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That particular one was uploaded by accident anyway. I didn't think it was sharp enough. The other wedding couple we came across that day have turned out much better.

I wouldn't be a huge amount of wwork to reprocess but as Wim suggests I'm inclined to leave them- the Seville ones stand out a bit but not for altogether the wrong reasons. I'll sleep on it.

BTW I meant ditch from AIM- I never delete anything completely, except for tests. I've never thrown away a neg, either. Goes against the grain.

Edited by spacecadet

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Grrr- they're starting to bug me now- blue skies with an amber tinge- may have to fix them!

The finger trouble must have been quite determined- one button press, then a pause, then one continuous press for about 2 seconds,  when I'd already tucked the camera up for the night.

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1 hour ago, spacecadet said:

Grrr- they're starting to bug me now- blue skies with an amber tinge- may have to fix them!

The finger trouble must have been quite determined- one button press, then a pause, then one continuous press for about 2 seconds,  when I'd already tucked the camera up for the night.

 

 I would do it for sure as they do look pretty weird - certainly any with people in them. Any buyer with photographic experience would see that there is something very amiss. You could just do them in batches of similar images taken around the same time or in the same light. Subtract some yellow from one until it looks right and then synchronise only the white balance across all in the same batch. I don't think it would be a lot of work, an hour or so maybe for the number you have. 

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On 23/11/2017 at 14:50, MDM said:

 

The buildings maybe but I'm not sure the jaundiced bride look will be a hit. Who knows? Perhaps Mark is on to something. 

I just did a search and not a single alamy image comes up for "jaundiced bride". spacecadet - quick, get the keywords changed, there's a gap!!! :D:D

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I was reading the comments above about white point and black point – I'm new here and trying to familiarise myself with the requirements. When it says on the "The 10 most common QC failure reasons", "Make sure your images have the correct exposure using the histogram. In Photoshop use ‘Levels’ to check this. For most images the black point should be 0 and the white point 255. As a rule of thumb we expect the black/white points to be within 5% of these values." Does that just mean that each photo has to cover these two areas (within 5% of 0 and 255) to some extent? What confuses me a little here is that Photoshop's Levels window will show the black point as 0 and the white point as 255 even for completely black and completely white images. (It looks like I've almost answered the question myself.)

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With a black to 0 and a white to 255 you will not see details in black and white area.

To setup the black and white point in PS :

Open an image 

Set the mode Lab Color in menu mode

Open the level Window

Double click on the Black Eyedropper tool (sorry English is not my native language so I don't know if it is the correct word)

then set the RGB values to 10,10,10 for black point

Close the Dialog

Double click on the White Eyedropper tool

Set the RGB values to 245,245,245 and close the Dialog.

 

Then back to the  RGB mode.

 

Your White and Black points are now saved as current setup for PS

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