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Brasilnut

Ethical dilemna - Nazi memorabilia licensing

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Hey all,

 

Last weekend I came across a real nazi BMW R75 motorcycle and sidecar with a machine gun (all in great conditions) and got some editorial shots which I've submitted on here (all accepted).

 

I'll be able to post one or two of the images tomorrow when it's up but I have no issues with pulling them. 

 

My question is would anybody ever use any of my images for hate-related media / extreme right-wing propaganda?

 

Secondly, is it ethically dubious for me to license such images? I know some photographers capture WWII re-enactments, I have no issues with any of that. 

 

Looking forward to your opinions on the subject.

 

Thanks

 

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Only you can make that decision.  Yes you run the risk of the image being used inappropriately - or at least contrary to your own ethical beliefs - but that's the case with a very wide variety of topics.  Do a search on Nazi - 71,009 images, most, I suspect, far more likely to be used by extremists than a BMW image.  Yours would be a drop in that ocean. Even the most innocuous of images could be used to support a cause abhorrent to most of us.  Should I refuse to upload a photo of a Jasmine because it's the national flower of Syria and could be used to support the odious regime or equally odious opposing forces?

 

By selling through an agency you cannot know the ultimate end use for any of your images.  To make your decision you have to second guess the market by adding restrictions within the Alamy framework - or only offer the image as a direct sale from your own website so you can control the usage.

 

Edit:  I see that this was my 666th post.  I hope that's not an omen.

Edited by John Richmond
Superstition
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I'd say yes, assuming there are no insignia- they're a complete no-no and illegal in Germany.

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Sure, they could be used by hate groups. I guess that's a chance you will have to take. Is it ethical to offer them as stock? Don't see why not. The images could also be used legitimately in history books, etc. Depends on how strongly you feel about the first possibility. I've been faced with a similar situation a few times through my own website. I have a lot of images of Latin America, and I've been approached by religious groups in the USA that do missionary work I don't agree with in Latin America and elsewhere. Fortunately, since I run the show, I've been able to just ignore their requests. Different situation of course when you license through an agency and have no control over end-use.

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I wouldn't worry too much about a historical image such as that as I'm not sure that I can think of a context for which they would use it. I have plenty of shots of Luftwaffe aircraft on Alamy. I'd think they'd more likely use images of ethnic minorities, or 'hordes' of migrants etc

 

Edit: Although the swastika is banned in Germany, their air force still use the 'Iron Cross'. The OP hasn't specified what is shown?

Edited by Avpics

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2 hours ago, Brasilnut said:

Hey all,

 

Last weekend I came across a real nazi BMW R75 motorcycle and sidecar with a machine gun (all in great conditions) and got some editorial shots which I've submitted on here (all accepted).

 

I'll be able to post one or two of the images tomorrow when it's up but I have no issues with pulling them. 

 

My question is would anybody ever use any of my images for hate-related media / extreme right-wing propaganda?

 

Secondly, is it ethically dubious for me to license such images? I know some photographers capture WWII re-enactments, I have no issues with any of that. 

 

Looking forward to your opinions on the subject.

 

Thanks

 

 

I see that the red arrow vigilantes are after you. I've added a greenie to cancel that out (they'll likely hunt me down elsewhere for that) :rolleyes:

As to your query, I think that everything's been said, really. Anything has the potential to be used by all manner of groups for a range of issues. Difficult to control or manage. On the positive side, the very same images you mention  could be used for good in all manner of ways. Chances are it'll be somewhere in-between - a straightforward factual article. But ultimately it's up to you. There is always the possibility to upset anyone with anything - just look at your red arrow! 

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You're quite right. There's a historical exemption.

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Quote

I see that the red arrow vigilantes are after you. I've added a greenie to cancel that out (they'll likely hunt me down elsewhere for that) :rolleyes:

 

Red arrow Nazis! 

 

Well, here they are:

 

This BMW R75 is a World War II-era motorcycle and sidecar combination manufactured by the German company Bavarian Stock Photo

 

This BMW R75 is a World War II-era motorcycle and sidecar combination manufactured by the German company Bavarian Stock Photo

 

This BMW R75 is a World War II-era motorcycle and sidecar combination manufactured by the German company Bavarian Stock Photo

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Brasilnut said:

My question is would anybody ever use any of my images for hate-related media / extreme right-wing propaganda?

 

Secondly, is it ethically dubious for me to license such images?

 

It of course is possible that someone would use any of your images for hate-related media.

I can't see that Alamy even forbids it, though probably I'm not looking at the right place (I checked the link at the bottom of a random file page which took me to this info: http://www.alamy.com/help/default.asp#licencing, which doesn't seem to prevent any sort of usage. I know that some other places forbid incitement to hate in their T&C, and I'd hope Alamy has that somewhere, but if I can't find it reasonably quickly, what chance is there that some hater will check? And just because it's forbidden doesn't mean it won't happen, though if it's expressly forbidden, you'd have some degree of comeback or insistence on a takedown.

There's probably more risk that it would be stolen from some editorial use rather than bought directly from Alamy for a bad use anyway, IMO.

 

If you feel uncomfortable about the likelihood of misuses, then it's ethically dubious for you. What I /we think is pretty irrelevant - the files have valid historical/editorial uses.

Edited by Cryptoprocta

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2 hours ago, Brasilnut said:

 

Red arrow Nazis! 

 

Well, here they are:

 

This BMW R75 is a World War II-era motorcycle and sidecar combination manufactured by the German company Bavarian Stock Photo

 

This BMW R75 is a World War II-era motorcycle and sidecar combination manufactured by the German company Bavarian Stock Photo

 

This BMW R75 is a World War II-era motorcycle and sidecar combination manufactured by the German company Bavarian Stock Photo

 

 

 

 

Those are images of a Russian DNEPR.

Not a BMW.

 

wim

edit: so post 1949, the first year they were built.

To your defense: It is more or less a clone of a pre-war BMW.

Edited by wiskerke

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There's nothing 'Nazi' in those images, just German military. You'll see iron crosses all over the place often as a fashion statement!

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4 minutes ago, Avpics said:

There's nothing 'Nazi' in those images, just German military. You'll see iron crosses all over the place often as a fashion statement!

 

Not quite, I think the eagle is the wrong one albeit mirrored.

 

wim

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I had wondered about the appalling German (the language, I mean).

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3 minutes ago, spacecadet said:

I had wondered about the appalling German (the language, I mean).

 

The semi Fraktur lettering too, yes.

Semi, because the real thing is quite difficult to read.

The Eagle on the yellow shield is the current Bundeswehr one. The other one is a mirrored Wehrmacht (=Nazi army) eagle.

We don't readily see those subtle differences, but they're very apparent to those in the know.

 

wim

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Great advice, above thanks. Also to improve on my existing keywords.

 

@wiskerke have you had a chance to visit some of the German fortifications in the Netherlands? Some really interesting bunkers all around on the coast and near the Waal. I remember from when I lived in Rotterdam and did some bike trips down to Breda. 

 

@GS-Images Mooo? Where are you?

 

Edited by Brasilnut

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Just now, Brasilnut said:

Great advice, above thanks. Also to improve on my existing keywords.

 

@wiskerke have you had a chance to visit some of the German fortifications in the Netherlands? Some really interesting bunkers all around on the coast and near the Waal. I remember from when I lived in Rotterdam and did some bike trips down to Breda. 

 

 

Yes, maybe not as big and impressive as the French ones, but certainly very numerous. Also some that have not yet been explored.

One of the experts in here is the husband of my cousin. He has written numerous books on the subject (a tiny part here) and is one of the go to experts when a bunker or a bomb emerges from the soil.

As you know, Holland is a very small country ;-)

Oops he's not from Holland, but from Zeeland a big difference ;-)

 

wim

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If you put an image in stock you cannot control the context. Context is everything with sensitive subjects. With the exception of contemporary news, I would not put any Nazi images on a stock site.

 

Why not photograph Nazi subjects for historical reasons, and then donate the images to a holocaust museum? They could better ensure the proper usage, and you would be helping a good cause.

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