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In the green  

70 members have voted

  1. 1. What percentage of images do you have in the green? (good or optimized)

    • 10% or less
    • Between 10% and 20%
    • Between 20% and 30%
    • Between 30% and 40%
    • Between 40% and 50%
    • Between 50% and 60%
    • Over 60%


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0.7% and that doesn't concern me, but I'm thinking that it might be beneficial to add more phrases (rather than single words) to better capture more customer searches, without descending into the irrelevant.

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1 minute ago, Bryan said:

0.7% and that doesn't concern me, but I'm thinking that it might be beneficial to add more phrases (rather than single words) to better capture more customer searches, without descending into the irrelevant.

That's my thinking

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1 hour ago, vpics said:

 

Do we actually have to keyword "in" or "on" etc.?

 

That's a simple test: use them in a search:

In London vs London.

However the list has been known to change over time.

 

wim

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4 hours ago, LawrensonPhoto said:

Lets take this scenario:

1. image with keywords: london, sightseer, Trafalgar square, pouring, rain

 

2. image with keywords: london, sightseer, Trafalgar square, pouring, rain, Sightseer in Trafalgar square, Sightseer in London, pouring in Trafalgar square, pouring in London, rain in Trafalgar square, rain in London

 

Buyer types exactly:

Sightseer in Trafalgar Square

 

image 1 has those keywords

image 2 has the exact phrase

Question

Would the 2nd image rank higher in the search because it is an exact match phrase?

Again, have a look at AoA searches. Customers would appear to search for, using your example, Trafalgar Square rain, or Trafalgar Square sightseer. If you have unlimited time then by all means cover as many bases as you like but I'd suggest that you'd only be increasing your chances of a sale by an incredibly minuscule amount. 

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24 minutes ago, Bryan said:

0.7% and that doesn't concern me, but I'm thinking that it might be beneficial to add more phrases (rather than single words) to better capture more customer searches, without descending into the irrelevant.

 

Thing with trying to dream up possible phrases is that the permutations and combinations start to get ridiculous. Some things might best be left to chance after awhile.

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6 hours ago, LawrensonPhoto said:

Alamy are encouraging phrases as tags, why would they say this if it wasn't beneficial?

That could be something as obvious as "New York" rather than New, York - though sadly their implemention means that many (all?) older files with New York were automaticaly split into New and York. You couldn't make it up.

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3 hours ago, vpics said:

Oh, by the way, I hate keywording!

Lol, I can’t say I enjoy it either. And no, I suppose we don’t need “in, on” and such, but my keyword brain works like I speak. I know...I’m weird....:D

i have phrases like

senior man riding bike,

senior man bicycling

and several more permutations 

besides single tags,

senior

man

riding

biking

bicycling

50s

Caucasian

retiree

pensioner

healthy lifestyle

exercise

exercising

public park

bicycle trails

American

You can amass a decent number of tags without spamming at all.

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4 hours ago, Betty LaRue said:

Lol, I can’t say I enjoy it either. And no, I suppose we don’t need “in, on” and such, but my keyword brain works like I speak. I know...I’m weird....:D

i have phrases like

senior man riding bike,

senior man bicycling

and several more permutations 

besides single tags,

senior

man

riding

biking

bicycling

50s

Caucasian

retiree

pensioner

healthy lifestyle

exercise

exercising

public park

bicycle trails

American

You can amass a decent number of tags without spamming at all.

 

And what other big agency would allow you to go in and change / add more tags to images already on sale. The amount of control we have over image-management is one the great things about Alamy.

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2.5% for me. The whole discovery thing I think is Alamy trying to be a bit social media-ish and is one of the clunky things that make the new Image Manager difficult to use. Others being non-editable text for keywords (not tags, tags are attached to new clothes with the price written on them), the tiny space for writing the caption and how hard it is to click the star to form a supertag. Back in the early days the common advice was to keyword like mad, with every remotely associated word going in. My portfolio sunk like a rock. At about 4000 images I deleted 1000 of the images and rekeyworded the rest, deleting 60% of my keywords and keeping just the few that described the image in literal terms, effectively the caption without the 'the', 'in' etc. Almost overnight there was a change and I started getting zooms and sales. The 380 images I have that are green (out of 15100) date from that time and when I find a bit of time I will demote them to orange. Irrelevant keywords hurt you. Just say no. 

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15 hours ago, Avpics said:

Again, have a look at AoA searches. Customers would appear to search for, using your example, Trafalgar Square rain, or Trafalgar Square sightseer. If you have unlimited time then by all means cover as many bases as you like but I'd suggest that you'd only be increasing your chances of a sale by an incredibly minuscule amount. 

I have an excel spreadsheet that can generate all possible combination of words making them into phrases within seconds, time isn't the problem.

I want to know if its worthwhile doing it.

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Over 60%

 

wim

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9 minutes ago, Colin Woods said:

2.5% for me. The whole discovery thing I think is Alamy trying to be a bit social media-ish and is one of the clunky things that make the new Image Manager difficult to use. Others being non-editable text for keywords (not tags, tags are attached to new clothes with the price written on them), the tiny space for writing the caption and how hard it is to click the star to form a supertag. Back in the early days the common advice was to keyword like mad, with every remotely associated word going in. My portfolio sunk like a rock. At about 4000 images I deleted 1000 of the images and rekeyworded the rest, deleting 60% of my keywords and keeping just the few that described the image in literal terms, effectively the caption without the 'the', 'in' etc. Almost overnight there was a change and I started getting zooms and sales. The 380 images I have that are green (out of 15100) date from that time and when I find a bit of time I will demote them to orange. Irrelevant keywords hurt you. Just say no. 

This is dated from Jan 2017 from alamy:

 

What we wouldn’t advise is putting multiple entities/concepts into a single tag e.g. “Paris Eiffel Tower”. As things currently stand this will not have any particular effect on the search engine one way or the other but in future iterations of the search engine it may do. It would be more natural (and hence better as a longer term tag strategy) to go for “Paris”,”Eiffel Tower”.

 

highlighted area?

 

I currently keyword thus:

Person With A dog

dogs

dogs In The Rain

People In The Rain

People Umbrella

People Walking In The Rain

People With Umbrellas

Walking In The Rain

 

Is this wrong???

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8%

 

Kumar (the Doc one)

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Over 60%.

 

Maybe this is what we should be looking for:

- Do the "in the green" images proportionally generate more zooms?

- Do they proportionally generate more sales?

 

So, if you have 60% greens, and 70% of your sales are from green images, that would be an indication that they are more efficient in terms of generating income.

 

My portfolio is fairly small, and I know zooms are not directly related to sales. So far my "in the green images" have proportionally generated more zooms, but odd enough, proportionally less sales. These are early results, so someone with a larger portfolio might have more reliable numbers.

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Just noticed I have been liked and upvoted. What's the difference? I don't do social media (I am more anti-social media, like listening to music or reading a book) so these things are a mystery to me. Anyone going to help me understand a like and an upvote?

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3 hours ago, wiskerke said:

Over 60%

 

wim

 

That's a lot, wim. So, what are your thoughts about "discoverability" and the importance of being "in the green" (if you dn't mind my asking)?

 

 

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I have a bit over 40% in the green. A lot of those are old images that have duplicate tags caused from the migration that haven’t been fixed, yet. Many over 50 tags, and will have to be fixed one by one.

That is the biggest downside of AIM, (for me), the mess made from the migration.

Betty

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24 minutes ago, Betty LaRue said:

I have a bit over 40% in the green. A lot of those are old images that have duplicate tags caused from the migration that haven’t been fixed, yet. Many over 50 tags, and will have to be fixed one by one.

That is the biggest downside of AIM, (for me), the mess made from the migration.

Betty

 

I have a messy situation as well, due mainly to commas being stripped by the old system and the earlier inclusion of brackets, etc. Curiously, though, the mess doesn't seem to be negatively affecting search results -- lots of my older images show up on page one despite the chaos.

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I can't vote yet.  I have 20% in the green.  The vote options say "between 10% and 20%"  and "between 20% and 30%" - my score falls between the cracks!  (pretty much like my sales since AIM went live and the search engine was updated).

 

I am using Jim Kier's "Lightroom Alamy Bridge" plug-in and at present letting it work what words are going to be super tags and tags.  I already have a pretty exhaustive hierarchical keyword taxonomy in Lightroom which includes synonyms.  It is something I have developed over 10 years of keywording images in various DAMs  (Digital Asset Management programs).

 

Jim Kier's algorithms along with my keyword hierarchy do a reasonable job of getting the right words in the supertags.  However it is not perfect by any means, but I look at it as a trade off accuracy vs time.  The other week I managed to update over 1000 of my 7000 images in just one afternoon.  I better to have 1000 images that are mostly tagged accurately, than 100 images that perfectly tagged and 900 that are poorly tagged.   (The remaining 6000 images are proving more of a problem - They date from a time when I stored both PSD and DNG versions of images in my Lightroom catalog and the software complains about duplicate references). 

 

Some of them went green most didn't.  I am trying not to worry about the fact that most of my images aren't green and will probably never be green.

 

Once I have sorted the remaining 6000 images, I'll look at improving the accuracy further.  But until Alamy Measures broke a few days ago, the semi automated changes to my 1000 images were showing a significant improvement on views and zooms.... but alas no improvement on sales yet.

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5 hours ago, John Mitchell said:

That's a lot, wim. So, what are your thoughts about "discoverability" and the importance of being "in the green" (if you dn't mind my asking)?

 

I wish I knew. Certainly have not cracked it yet.

My 60% is mostly legacy. I had lots of phrases That, Now, Have, Become, All, Single, Keywords.

However there has been a brief time that when you edited a single keyword in AIM it All, Become, Have, Keywords, Now, Single.

(Before some brought up the Latin names problem.)

 

I don't hate keywording at all. I hate stupid interfaces and usually walk away from people/websites/companies using them.

 

wim

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9 hours ago, Colin Woods said:

2.5% for me. The whole discovery thing I think is Alamy trying to be a bit social media-ish and is one of the clunky things that make the new Image Manager difficult to use. Others being non-editable text for keywords (not tags, tags are attached to new clothes with the price written on them), the tiny space for writing the caption and how hard it is to click the star to form a supertag. Back in the early days the common advice was to keyword like mad, with every remotely associated word going in. My portfolio sunk like a rock. At about 4000 images I deleted 1000 of the images and rekeyworded the rest, deleting 60% of my keywords and keeping just the few that described the image in literal terms, effectively the caption without the 'the', 'in' etc. Almost overnight there was a change and I started getting zooms and sales. The 380 images I have that are green (out of 15100) date from that time and when I find a bit of time I will demote them to orange. Irrelevant keywords hurt you. Just say no. 

 

A very interesting observation & comment.  I've been reading this thread as a relative newbie (started contributing in earnest this year), thinking that CTR would decline if we added too many non-specific tags.  Looking at the data Alamy gives us access to seems to confirm this although I'm not sure I completely understand the workings of AoA just yet.  I could be totally wrong but I think you make good sense.

 

Rick

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It seems like the vast majority don't add too many keywords (at a guess between 15 - 25?)

But there is also a high number of people who have over 60% (although this might be a legacy issue?)

 

 

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