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Sorry for my ignorance but I'm missing something. If I keyword a RAW image in LR, then export it as a .jpg, then upload it to Alamy, are those keywords uploaded too?

 

To date I've always keyworded after QC (I've a small no of images), but the other way would be preferable.

 

And if I don't use the LR keyword field, is there another IPTC field I should use?

 

Much appreciate your feedback, thanks.

 E

Russell

 

 

I'm not on the new IM yet, so can't comment on keywording with it, but I have always keyworded my images in Photoshop (not Lightroom) before uploading because :

 

1) It means you can submit your images to other Agencies without having to keyword them all again

2) Keywords are imported by Alamy in the exact order you entered them in Photoshop, all you have to do is cut & paste the main keywords into the right box in the Alamy IM (old version)

 

By not keywording before upload, you are basically putting all your eggs in one basket. You may be quite happy with Alamy now but it is not good business to assume that this will be the case forever. You may well be with Alamy forever, but if you part company you will have to keyword all images again. I'm not aware of anyone who has managed to get a file with keywords of their images from Alamy.

 

Marc

+1.
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John, does Photo Mechanic put the tags in alphabetical order? I'm thinking that was the program I trialed years ago that alphabetized at the time. Just curious.

Yes, PM does put keywords/tags in alphabetical order. You can also put them in non-alphabetical order; however, this method is slower because you have to add keywords from your master list one-by-one rather than in groups. PM has a lot of other keywording features that I have yet to explore. There's a lot to it. Not sure yet how it will work with the new MI, though. Should find out soon enough. BTW my version of PM is several years old now. The latest one no doubt has more options.

 

P.S. If you type in keywords rather than select them from a pre-made list, PM will not alphabetize them. Keywords were exported to the old MI in the order that I had entered them, but commas were stripped.

Edited by John Mitchell

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I'm not aware of anyone who has managed to get a file with keywords of their images from Alamy.

Marc

 

Maybe I'm missing the point, but Alamy say that they will send you a spreadsheet with all keywords and attributes if asked. I don't know how you'd then reassociate them with the images, but that's not what you said.

I have certainly had such a file, for some NT images which were deleted. Not my whole port.

Edited by spacecadet
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Thanks Paulette, Marc and Betty for replying to my dumb question. Somewhere back in time I knew that, but it had slipped my mind completely. Ah! the joys of the aging brain!

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I'm not aware of anyone who has managed to get a file with keywords of their images from Alamy.

Marc

 

Maybe I'm missing the point, but Alamy say that they will send you a spreadsheet with all keywords and attributes if asked. I don't know how you'd then reassociate them with the images, but that's not what you said.

I have certainly had such a file, for some NT images which were deleted. Not my whole port.

 

 

That's interesting ... you would have to write a macro and it would not be straight forward but could probably be done. I will try, good macro practice!

 

Marc

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I'm not aware of anyone who has managed to get a file with keywords of their images from Alamy.

Marc

 

Maybe I'm missing the point, but Alamy say that they will send you a spreadsheet with all keywords and attributes if asked. I don't know how you'd then reassociate them with the images, but that's not what you said.

I have certainly had such a file, for some NT images which were deleted. Not my whole port.

 

 

That's interesting ... you would have to write a macro and it would not be straight forward but could probably be done. I will try, good macro practice!

 

Marc

 

 

I asked about this the other day and Alamy can supply the spreadsheet but CR cannot use it to update the new format of metadata. You would have to cut and paste manually in AIM I guess. They are working on a new one to be available at some unspecified time in the future. So one will have to wait to go this route.

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I'm not aware of anyone who has managed to get a file with keywords of their images from Alamy.

Marc

 

Maybe I'm missing the point, but Alamy say that they will send you a spreadsheet with all keywords and attributes if asked. I don't know how you'd then reassociate them with the images, but that's not what you said.

I have certainly had such a file, for some NT images which were deleted. Not my whole port.

 

 

That's interesting ... you would have to write a macro and it would not be straight forward but could probably be done. I will try, good macro practice!

 

Marc

 

 

I asked about this the other day and Alamy can supply the spreadsheet but CR cannot use it to update the new format of metadata. You would have to cut and paste manually in AIM I guess. They are working on a new one to be available at some unspecified time in the future. So one will have to wait to go this route.

 

 

I've had spreadsheets of metadata from them before, edited it (using VBA macros) and returned to them for re-importing. It was very useful. I hope they restore this capability once they've fixed all the bugs in the new MI. 

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Also I seem to have read somewhere in one of Alamy's posts that keyword order is not important with the new search engine.

Richard

 

This is a quote from Alamy's latest blog about tagging

 

"Try to avoid adding alphabetical lists of tags. Proximity of one tag compared to another used in a multi-word search can have an effect on where it appears in the sort order, which is why we’d recommend adding phrases / multi-word tags where appropriate."

 

According to this word proximity is important and yet they make it difficult to achieve.

 

Pearl

 

Thank you Pearl, I think I've read so much over the last few days I'm getting tagitis.  I would point out though for people that haven't used the Lightroom Alamy plugin that it doesn't export the tags in alphabetical order, at least not to essential and main keywords(as still is until Jim Keir provides an update) but can make an attempt to prioritise them, not always perfect, but you can at least move them about as required in Lightroom rather than them being exported alphabetically. Essential keywords come up as blue starred and main keywords come up as unstarred tags.

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I've done 1018 of my legacy images now. About 1/5. Both ends. Only 4000 and change to go. Groan.

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Until Alamy fixes and allows reordering of keywords, perhaps you all who keyword in LR can just open the image into Bridge and do it there.

Since I don't do it in LR, maybe I'm not understanding the complications. You want searching ability in LR. So if your image is tagged with a couple of the most important words in LR, they can be searched within LR.

Then open into Bridge and build the rest of the tag field around those couple of most important tags because they won't be in alphabetical order and will play nicely with MI.

 

Am I all wet here, and missing something important?

 

 

Seeing "Bridge" mentioned so often in the forum threads I thought it would be worth a look. :)

 

I do not have "Bridge" on my system Betty so went onto Adobe website only to find it is not mentioned on there at all. :(

 

Where has it gone and how do I get a copy? :huh:

 

Allan

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Until Alamy fixes and allows reordering of keywords, perhaps you all who keyword in LR can just open the image into Bridge and do it there.

Since I don't do it in LR, maybe I'm not understanding the complications. You want searching ability in LR. So if your image is tagged with a couple of the most important words in LR, they can be searched within LR.

Then open into Bridge and build the rest of the tag field around those couple of most important tags because they won't be in alphabetical order and will play nicely with MI.

 

Am I all wet here, and missing something important?

 

 

Seeing "Bridge" mentioned so often in the forum threads I thought it would be worth a look. :)

 

I do not have "Bridge" on my system Betty so went onto Adobe website only to find it is not mentioned on there at all. :(

 

Where has it gone and how do I get a copy? :huh:

 

Allan

 

 

Bridge and ACR are included with PS.  If you don't have PS, you can't get Bridge as its integrated only with PS, not Lightroom.  Lightroom is really a combo of Bridge and ACR but enhanced in the file management area. 

 

Jill

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Bridge comes with Photoshop and other CC apps. As far as image managment is concerned, including keywording, I think LR is light years ahead of Bridge.  I am not concerned with order of keywords which appears to be the reason some are advocating Bridge but those who are don't use, don't wish to use or can't use Lightroom. Otherwise Lightroom is far superior - I used Bridge for several years so am talking from experience.

 

Bridge is a file browser, Lightroom includes a proper data management system. Try managing a large image collection in Bridge and it keeps losing and having to rebuild the cache - immensely frustrating. LR has everything that Bridge has in the way of metadata templates and is far far faster at finding images in a collection, has advanced filtering and far better smart collections than Bridge.

 

I still use Bridge when I want to view a set of images when I am working in LR as it is only possible to have one LR window open at a time whereas with Bridge, multiple windows can be used. So, for example, I can look at a set of files I've exported from LR.

Edited by MDM

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Until Alamy fixes and allows reordering of keywords, perhaps you all who keyword in LR can just open the image into Bridge and do it there.

Since I don't do it in LR, maybe I'm not understanding the complications. You want searching ability in LR. So if your image is tagged with a couple of the most important words in LR, they can be searched within LR.

Then open into Bridge and build the rest of the tag field around those couple of most important tags because they won't be in alphabetical order and will play nicely with MI.

 

Am I all wet here, and missing something important?

 

 

Seeing "Bridge" mentioned so often in the forum threads I thought it would be worth a look. :)

 

I do not have "Bridge" on my system Betty so went onto Adobe website only to find it is not mentioned on there at all. :(

 

Where has it gone and how do I get a copy? :huh:

 

Allan

 

 

Bridge and ACR are included with PS.  If you don't have PS, you can't get Bridge as its integrated only with PS, not Lightroom.  Lightroom is really a combo of Bridge and ACR but enhanced in the file management area. 

 

Jill

 

 

 

Bridge comes with Photoshop and other CC apps. As far as image managment is concerned, including keywording, I think LR is light years ahead of Bridge.  I am not concerned with order of keywords which appears to be the reason some are advocating Bridge but those who are don't use, don't wish to use or can't use Lightroom. Otherwise Lightroom is far superior - I used Bridge for several years so am talking from experience.

 

Bridge is a file browser, Lightroom includes a proper data management system. Try managing a large image collection in Bridge and it keeps losing and having to rebuild the cache - immensely frustrating. LR has everything that Bridge has in the way of metadata templates and is far far faster at finding images in a collection, has advanced filtering and far better smart collections than Bridge.

 

I still use Bridge when I want to view a set of images when I am working in LR as it is only possible to have one LR window open at a time whereas with Bridge, multiple windows can be used. So, for example, I can look at a set of files I've exported from LR.

 

 

 

Thank you both. :)

 

I will stick with LR.

 

Allan

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I use LR. I work my way through the development panel, then open into PS. Use layers if needed. There are some things I do that are MUCH easier to do in PS.

Then keyword using my created templates when they fit, which saves much time. Templates allow me to never have to search for an old image to copy keywords.

 

My folder arrangement is good enough for me.

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I use LR. I work my way through the development panel, then open into PS. Use layers if needed. There are some things I do that are MUCH easier to do in PS.

Then keyword using my created templates when they fit, which saves much time. Templates allow me to never have to search for an old image to copy keywords.

 

My folder arrangement is good enough for me.

 

 

And I thought you were advocating "Bridge". Sorry. :(

 

Allan

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I

 

I use LR. I work my way through the development panel, then open into PS. Use layers if needed. There are some things I do that are MUCH easier to do in PS.

Then keyword using my created templates when they fit, which saves much time. Templates allow me to never have to search for an old image to copy keywords.

My folder arrangement is good enough for me.

 

 

And I thought you were advocating "Bridge". Sorry. :(

 

Allan

.

I am advocating Bridge, Allen. Bridge is a part of PS, and once I develop and save my final image in PS, all of my desktop folders can be viewed in Bridge. I open the folder I want to keyword those images.

I highlight an image, or if I have several similars, I highlight the set.

 

Here's where I use one of my created templates if any apply to the new images. If not, I keyword from scratch. My keywords when uploaded stay in the exact order I did them. That's why I love keywording in Bridge.

It's win-win for me. New images in today's MI, are then a breeze. Since I keyworded in Bridge in the order of importance, the first 10 tags are the ones I choose for supertags.

I can do a new image in a minute, including optional.

Betty

Edited to add: I develop in LR first, then open into PS where I do my cropping, spotting and any uses of layers. Then save. A copy goes back into LR.

Edited by Betty LaRue

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I

 

I use LR. I work my way through the development panel, then open into PS. Use layers if needed. There are some things I do that are MUCH easier to do in PS.

Then keyword using my created templates when they fit, which saves much time. Templates allow me to never have to search for an old image to copy keywords.

My folder arrangement is good enough for me.

 

And I thought you were advocating "Bridge". Sorry. :(

 

Allan

.

I am advocating Bridge, Allen. Bridge is a part of PS, and once I develop and save my final image in PS, all of my desktop folders can be viewed in Bridge. I open the folder I want to keyword those images.

I highlight an image, or if I have several similars, I highlight the set.

 

Here's where I use one of my created templates if any apply to the new images. If not, I keyword from scratch. My keywords when uploaded stay in the exact order I did them. That's why I love keywording in Bridge.

It's win-win for me. New images in today's MI, are then a breeze. Since I keyworded in Bridge in the order of importance, the first 10 tags are the ones I choose for supertags.

I can do a new image in a minute, including optional.

Betty

Edited to add: I develop in LR first, then open into PS where I do my cropping, spotting and any uses of layers. Then save. A copy goes back into LR.

 

 

That is close to how I do it Betty, except I don't use LR.  Keep thinking of it, since I do pay for it.

 

Most people having issues are those who keyword in LR.

 

Thank goodness I use Bridge.

 

Jill

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I

 

I use LR. I work my way through the development panel, then open into PS. Use layers if needed. There are some things I do that are MUCH easier to do in PS.

Then keyword using my created templates when they fit, which saves much time. Templates allow me to never have to search for an old image to copy keywords.

My folder arrangement is good enough for me.

 

And I thought you were advocating "Bridge". Sorry. :(

 

Allan

.

I am advocating Bridge, Allen. Bridge is a part of PS, and once I develop and save my final image in PS, all of my desktop folders can be viewed in Bridge. I open the folder I want to keyword those images.

I highlight an image, or if I have several similars, I highlight the set.

 

Here's where I use one of my created templates if any apply to the new images. If not, I keyword from scratch. My keywords when uploaded stay in the exact order I did them. That's why I love keywording in Bridge.

It's win-win for me. New images in today's MI, are then a breeze. Since I keyworded in Bridge in the order of importance, the first 10 tags are the ones I choose for supertags.

I can do a new image in a minute, including optional.

Betty

Edited to add: I develop in LR first, then open into PS where I do my cropping, spotting and any uses of layers. Then save. A copy goes back into LR.

 

 

That is close to how I do it Betty, except I don't use LR.  Keep thinking of it, since I do pay for it.

 

Most people having issues are those who keyword in LR.

 

Thank goodness I use Bridge.

 

Jill

 

Jill - if getting the order of your tags into Alamy is the most important thing in your workflow, then perhaps you are on the right track but there are far more important things in my book than getting keywords in the right order, moreover given that the significance of word/tag order is very dubious in any case.

 

I would suggest you try out Lightroom sometime as it is far faster and better for managing images than Bridge (and it does have metadata templates very similar to Bridge), the raw converter is identical to ACR and LR has lots of other goodies that are not available elsewhere.

Edited by MDM

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Thanks for clarifying things.

 

I am interested in a program that would keep my tags (keywords) in the order that I put them when sending to Alamy.

 

That is why I am interested in "Bridge". Just for that purpose.

 

So there is no way I can obtain a copy to try?  (Remembering I am using LR and PSE).

 

Allan

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Legally the answer is no. It only comes with Photoshop or other CC apps. You could, however, download the CC trial if you want to check out Bridge. Honestly though, given that keyword order appears to be irrelevant, is it really worth worrying about Bridge? Not that I would put you off upgrading to CC - it's excellent but probably not good value for you unless you decide to take advantage of full Photoshop. 

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Allan, if you should ever have use for layers, you can't do it in LR.

Occasionally when I can't tweak the sky color enough in LR, I make a layer copy in PS then lower exposure of the image until the sky looks bluer.

I then take a brush and brush out the effect on the foreground getting the brightness back. I can lower opacity of the brush for the horizon brush work to 40-50% or less so that I can't discern a tell-tale change there. Works a charm. Brush needs to be all the way soft.

You can do the same thing in reverse when you need to lighten the foreground while keeping the sky the same. Just have to flatten the layers when done.

I would say the adjustments I make in LR are basic. Usually that's enough. Until it's not, and I need to do critical work in PS.

And, of course, keywording in Bridge! :D

Betty

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Allan, if you should ever have use for layers, you can't do it in LR.

Occasionally when I can't tweak the sky color enough in LR, I make a layer copy in PS then lower exposure of the image until the sky looks bluer.

I then take a brush and brush out the effect on the foreground getting the brightness back. I can lower opacity of the brush for the horizon brush work to 40-50% or less so that I can't discern a tell-tale change there. Works a charm. Brush needs to be all the way soft.

You can do the same thing in reverse when you need to lighten the foreground while keeping the sky the same. Just have to flatten the layers when done.

I would say the adjustments I make in LR are basic. Usually that's enough. Until it's not, and I need to do critical work in PS.

And, of course, keywording in Bridge! :D

Betty

 

I've done it that way in the past. Nowadays though, I tend to prefer to apply a grad filter in Lightroom and use the brush tool (the one associated with the grad filter) to erase the grad filter effect where I don't want it.

No right way of doing it though.. just different people have different preferences.

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In RAW you can do a lot on skies with highlight recovery, then selective saturation if there isn't too much blue in the foreground. A bit of orange and yellow to spiff up stonework too.

I don't think LR5 has a brush with the grad.

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Adobe Bridge is apparently free.  I think you need to have an Adobe ID, but you can create one without spending any money.  http://www.adobe.com/products/bridge.html

 

Fascinating. I stand corrected. Allan will already have an Adobe ID as he has Lightroom.

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