Jump to content

Recommended Posts

The forum has seen various topics recently around the subjects of legality, accreditation, Alamy contract and changes thereto, making it clear that the buck stops with the photographer, not Alamy.

 

As I have come to freelance photography and photojournalism from the bottom up, I have yet to  join any professional body or taken out any indemnity insurance, but I am thinking I really should. My main concerns are getting legal help in the (hopefully unlikely) event of being subject to legal action and expertise and representation without having to dig deep into my empty pockets to hire a lawyer.  Also getting accreditation to the occasional ticketed event would be useful (I often visit agricultural shows, amongst other events).

 

What would the collective experience of the Alamy forum suggest. National Union of Journalists? A professional photography association? Free standing indemnity insurance? Something else? 

 

I am in the UK and only work in the UK.

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have self-insured and have no doubt saved a good bit over 35 years. That includes equipment. Not advocating the policy, just describing it. But I've rarely been near photojournalism as such. For stock photography I can't see the need, but it doesn't seem to be too costly.

Edited by spacecadet
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have self-insured and have no doubt saved a good bit over 35 years. That includes equipment. Not advocating the policy, just describing it. But I've rarely been near photojournalism as such. For stock photography I can't see the need, but it doesn't seem to be too costly.

 

By self-insured do you mean have bought some kind of insurance policy, or do you simply salt away some income into a fund for use if ever you are challenged  legally?

 

As to photo-journalism, well it may be stretching the term a bit to say that my occasional submissions to Alamy Live News makes me a photo-journalist, but it is what I do. In fact, all  images  I submit intended as secondary or soft editorial have a photo-journalistic element. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've always used specialist camera insurance and have had either standalone or bundled PL etc.  PL is my biggest concern with the client jobs I do, don't want to be forking out if something goes wrong and several million pounds of property is damaged through my actions. It's been around the same figure (the PL at £50-60 per annum) for many years and easily worth it for peace of mind.

 

As for equipment insurance, well we've seen first hand on the old forum the consequence of not being insured.

 

For about £400 a year you can get total cover for most equipment and situational protection which IMO is money well spent. PL is one insurance that also gets you access to many places. I've been asked on a few occasions when hiring places to show I have cover, without it.....they would say no.

 

If you think that's expensive... try UAV (drone) insurance.... :o

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I have self-insured and have no doubt saved a good bit over 35 years. That includes equipment. Not advocating the policy, just describing it. But I've rarely been near photojournalism as such. For stock photography I can't see the need, but it doesn't seem to be too costly.

 

By self-insured do you mean have bought some kind of insurance policy, or do you simply salt away some income into a fund for use if ever you are challenged  legally?

 

As to photo-journalism, well it may be stretching the term a bit to say that my occasional submissions to Alamy Live News makes me a photo-journalist, but it is what I do. In fact, all  images  I submit intended as secondary or soft editorial have a photo-journalistic element. 

 

I don't have insurance. I am ahead by 35 years of premiums and have never owned more than about £2000-worth of equipment at any one time. I don't see the need for legal insurance.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

As for equipment insurance, well we've seen first hand on the old forum the consequence of not being insured.

 

Can you remind me?

When I dropped a body a couple of years ago I just bought second-hand straight away, about £200, which I financed through surplus equipment disposals. Kit gets cheaper.

Edited by spacecadet
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

As for equipment insurance, well we've seen first hand on the old forum the consequence of not being insured.

 

Can you remind me?

When I dropped a body a couple of years ago I just bought second-hand straight away, about £200, which I financed through surplus equipment disposals. Kit gets cheaper.

 

 

A France-based photographer who had his entire kit pinched off a train whilst travelling. I don't find overall kit getting cheaper, camera bodies to some extent but pro lenses seem to always be £1-2k.

 

Art Wolfe is one famous photographer who had all his kit stolen - it was why he went from Nikon to Canon.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have one body and two kit lenses and that's about it. Thinking of stretching to a shorter zoom but most sales seem to be from the longer end anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Public liability is indemnity for damage to third party persons and/or property. Professional Indemnity (errors and omissions) is protection against legal action bought against you for negligence whilst engaged in your profession. It's the latter one that can ruin you. Expensive to acquire and usually dependant upon being a member of a recognised trade body. As such, the trade body quite often carry a "block policy" covering members. Inevitably underwritten by a Lloyds syndicate. Includes efficacy clause.

 

Well worth asking the question of said organisation before joining.

Edited by ReeRay
Link to post
Share on other sites

You can get professional indemnity insurance at reasonable prices without belonging to any trade body although some specialist photographic insurers (e.g Aaduki) offer discounts for members of professional bodies. I think professional indemnity is absolutely essential if working for clients and public liability is often required.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

My angle from a Freelance point of view is to hold insurance for all my equipment, wherever it may be, and, of course, Public Liability insurance. I normally work on my own and, as far as is practicable, think about what I am doing to negate possibilities of any legal action against me.

I do belong to an Association who offer advisory and mediation services. I've been a member for longer than I care to remember and, touch wood, have not yet had to recourse to seek advice but it is nice to know that they are there in the background.

 

Jim. :) 

Link to post
Share on other sites

^ and that's the essence, "peace of mind". You can gamble with self insurance on low value equipment but not on PL or PI cover where the claims can run into vast sums.

 

As a long since retired underwriter we always said " insurance is expensive... but cheap upon a claim"

Link to post
Share on other sites

My angle from a Freelance point of view is to hold insurance for all my equipment, wherever it may be, and, of course, Public Liability insurance. I normally work on my own and, as far as is practicable, think about what I am doing to negate possibilities of any legal action against me.

I do belong to an Association who offer advisory and mediation services. I've been a member for longer than I care to remember and, touch wood, have not yet had to recourse to seek advice but it is nice to know that they are there in the background.

 

Jim. :)

 

Thanks Jim. Are you, or others responding, allowed to mention specific trade/professional associations here. I guess they are not in competition with Alamy so it should  be OK.  

 

I've gone down the road of  'self-insurance' for a long time now but I'm getting more and more nervous about it as even here in the UK litigatious individuals and organisations seem to loom in every corner (and Alamy do their best to cover their own back rather than mine). I'm trying to make a judgement on what option, if any, offers the best of all worlds on public liability/professional liability with access to press accreditation being a bonus if it comes with the package. I know the NUJ goes some way towards meeting my needs but are they comprehensive enough on their own? Who else would people recommend (don't worry, I won't sue if anyone's recommendation turns out to be pants  :) )

 

Equipment insurance I think will have to remain a separate issue as  I can't see anyone offer a package which covers all these things.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Joseph, the 'Association' I was referring to is The Bureau of Freelance Photographers. I use it mainly for marketing opportunities for other than stock but, as I mentioned, they do provide access to advisory and mediation services.

Jim.   

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Joseph, the 'Association' I was referring to is The Bureau of Freelance Photographers. I use it mainly for marketing opportunities for other than stock but, as I mentioned, they do provide access to advisory and mediation services.

Jim.   

 

Ta Jim. I've not come across them before so I'll check things out. Any others, anyone?

Link to post
Share on other sites

The forum has seen various topics recently around the subjects of legality, accreditation, Alamy contract and changes thereto, making it clear that the buck stops with the photographer, not Alamy.

 

 

 

I am not sure what "the buck stops with the photographer" is supposed to mean. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The forum has seen various topics recently around the subjects of legality, accreditation, Alamy contract and changes thereto, making it clear that the buck stops with the photographer, not Alamy.

 

 

 

I am not sure what "the buck stops with the photographer" is supposed to mean. 

 

 

 

Regardless of implied safeguards the photographer is ultimately responsible for their images no matter what it/they may be used for.

 

Allan

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

The forum has seen various topics recently around the subjects of legality, accreditation, Alamy contract and changes thereto, making it clear that the buck stops with the photographer, not Alamy.

 

 

 

I am not sure what "the buck stops with the photographer" is supposed to mean. 

 

 

 

Regardless of implied safeguards the photographer is ultimately responsible for their images no matter what it/they may be used for.

 

Allan

 

 

 

 

Legally speaking this assertion makes little sense. Responsible for what exactly? Alamy cannot make us responsible for how an image is used, even though they may tell us that we are. 

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Allan is not asserting it as fact

 

 

 

 

The forum has seen various topics recently around the subjects of legality, accreditation, Alamy contract and changes thereto, making it clear that the buck stops with the photographer, not Alamy.

 

 

 

I am not sure what "the buck stops with the photographer" is supposed to mean. 

 

 

 

Regardless of implied safeguards the photographer is ultimately responsible for their images no matter what it/they may be used for.

 

Allan

 

 

 

 

Legally speaking this assertion makes little sense. Responsible for what exactly? Alamy cannot make us responsible for how an image is used, even though they may tell us that we are. 

 

Allan is not asserting it- he is answering the question you asked.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Allan is not asserting it- he is answering the question you asked.

 

 

 

I do  understand that. I did not write "your assertion" by the way, I wrote "this assertion" which really does not imply who is making it.

 

But-  makes no difference, and it still makes no sense from a legal point of view, at least to me.  

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.