Jump to content
chrumu

Strange AoA results - or I don't understand keywording

Recommended Posts

Hi

 

over the last few weeks I had several search results in All of Alamy which I don't understand.

 

 

 

1. F59CMG. This picture showed up in a search for "make a bird house", although the word make is neither in the keywords nor caption.

 

 

2. Two searches, one for "liguria sea", the other for "Liguria sea". Same day, 100 views (i.e., one page) each. On the two searches, different images of mine showed up. Are keywords case-sensitive after all?

 

 

3. A picture of mine showed up in a search for "erdnussöl", which is German for peanut oil. I only used English keywords. Is there an automatic keyword translation mechanism?

 

 

4. One of my pictures has, among others, the following keywords: "cow bell, cheese making". It showed up in a search for "cow bell making". Why? I thought by using commas to separate key expressions rather than individual keywords I could prevent such false results.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

search "make" = 0 hits,

"make" invisible to search engine

as are lots of common words;

(AND GET READY FOR THIS ------

MAKING IS NOT!!!  AH HA HA AAAAAAAAAAAHHH)

 

Well spotted!

 

wim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Checked these in June 2015:

 

NOT

 

all
also
an
at
be is are was were been
but
by
do does did
for
have has had
he
here
him
how
if
make
me
my
of
see
the
to
you
your
we
what
with
 

No guarantees: these have changed a lot over time, and will probably keep changing. maybe have changed since June, when I last checked.

There must be other keywords Not valid as well.

Some are really complicated like your make-makes.

 

Now is this wise? How about these?

make up            22

lots of make up     3

make up artist      3

no make up          2

heavy make up       2

make up woman       2

David Bowie make up 2

 

and lots more.

(all from AoA)

 

wim

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of my pictures has, among others, the following keywords: "cow bell, cheese making". It showed up in a search for "cow bell making". Why? I thought by using commas to separate key expressions rather than individual keywords I could prevent such false result

 

 

When you're entering keywords, commas and spaces are interchangeable - both are interpreted as separators between words. If you wish to have phrases such as "cow bell" treated as a single unit you need to put them in quotes... in theory. However, in practice I don't think Alamy have ever implemented this in the search engine (despite having promised to do so at least 7 years ago) so currently there's little point in doing so unless you think that one day they might do it.

 

The way the keywords appear in the list when you zoom an image bears little relation to what you enter when keywording.

 

Alan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I occasionally put phrases in quotes in case this ever happens. But using spaces and commas is just a waste of characters.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

When you're entering keywords, commas and spaces are interchangeable - both are interpreted as separators between words. If you wish to have phrases such as "cow bell" treated as a single unit you need to put them in quotes... in theory. However, in practice I don't think Alamy have ever implemented this in the search engine (despite having promised to do so at least 7 years ago) so currently there's little point in doing so unless you think that one day they might do it.

 

The way the keywords appear in the list when you zoom an image bears little relation to what you enter when keywording.

 

Alan

 

Yes, but not quite unproblematic to use quotes around phrases in the middle of other keywords entered without commas. If you have more than one phrase in this way I have seen many of the single key words sticking together with these quotes making a total mess (as if the system cannot tell they are two different phrases, but mix all up).

 

My answer to this is not to use commas between the normal keywords (never done so) but use commas instead of quotation marks (in the faint belief that keywords next to each other are stronger if searched so, but it may not be so) - and preferably put the phrases far from each other and not neighbouring. This seems to help, but I prefer to check  when the images have come online to see if any rearrangement is necessary. (Easily done, just hover the mouse along all the keywords, it takes a sec.). This may not be the final truth, but it works for me.

Edited by Niels Quist

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you use quotes around a phrase it shows up as such within the Stock Photo keywords associated with the image when it is zoomed, while if you don't the the individual words just appear in alphabetic order.

 

I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing, as it shows both the customers and your competitors how you have arranged your keywords, while it may or, probably, may not make any difference in a search.

 

I believe that Alamy has always said that the ordering of the words does influence the search results, whether or not they are in quotes.

Edited by Bryan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Key wording is definitely a black art,beyond my means, as are Alamy sales. I've changed a lot of mine as I know had too many, although I still probably have too many.

 

This was partly because, Initially, I key worded for my website, so I'd have "portrait photographer in Liverpool" in my Metadata, which became a keyword, when uploading to Alamy, but of course that was before I came on here!

 

I've also always put commas in, rather than spaces, because I presumed it kept two words together, which it does, because spaces just jumble all words up. I've just checked this on some I hadn't tightened up and it does jumble all the words up.

 

I've also just noticed, if you put words in quotations it does also keep them together, but if your search includes the quotations it narrows the search down!

 

So for example I've just searched for "pink evening sky", if you search without quotes over 11,000 appear, but if you search with quotation marks only 40 appear!

 

Therefore, should we put any two words together that fit, in quotation marks? Or is that a waste of time because we don't know if buyers search that way?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just for my experience in another agency.

There, it didnt matter the order of the keywords, actually they alway change them in alphabetical order, they use commas to separate the words, here I understand we use spaces and quotes means nothing.

By all means, there no words get ignored like the ones being ignored here, which in fact might be a good idea for words like, the words wiskerke checked.

But, there or here, the search engine is always a mistery and will always have some unexpected behaviour sometimes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've always used commas to separate words and phrases, never used quotes. A random check shows things just as I entered them, but in alphabetical order. I recall reading that the keywords are shown in that order, but that the order the contributor entered them is a factor in searches.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just for my experience in another agency.

There, it didnt matter the order of the keywords, actually they alway change them in alphabetical order, they use commas to separate the words, here I understand we use spaces and quotes means nothing.

By all means, there no words get ignored like the ones being ignored here, which in fact might be a good idea for words like, the words wiskerke checked.

But, there or here, the search engine is always a mistery and will always have some unexpected behaviour sometimes.

 

It's not true that "quotes mean nothing" when used in keywords (I assume that's what you mean, apologies if not) . . . I use quotation marks (aka quotes, inverted commas) to define multiple word phrases . . . and these complete phrases are therefore shown intact in the keywords (alphabetically listed of course).

 

For example: keywords on one of my images exactly as they were entered:

 

"australian flag" ashes, australia, australian "barmy army" competition, cricket, dustydingo, england "england versus australia" english "english flag" fans . . .

 

and how they appear: ashes, australia, australian, australian flag, barmy army, competition, cricket, dustydingo, england, england versus australia, english, english flag, fans,

 

I use quotes instead of just commas (   . . . ashes, australian, australian flag, barmy army, competition . . .  etc would achieve the same result) as I find it's easier to not inadvertently miss a phrase and have it appear as alphabetically arranged single words, and easier too to avoid missing a comma and having strange phrases crop up.

 

Using this system I'm always 100% confident that I know how my keywords will appear.

 

Edit: That does not mean I undestand some of the strange anomalies some searches appear to throw up of course, that truly is another kettle of fish, but the relationship between how I enter keywords and how they appear is consistent and no cause, for me, for alarm or confusion.

 

dd

Edited by dustydingo
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Checked these in June 2015:

 

NOT

 

all

also

an

at

be is are was were been

but

by

do does did

for

have has had

he

here

him

how

if

make

me

my

of

see

the

to

you

your

we

what

with

 

No guarantees: these have changed a lot over time, and will probably keep changing. maybe have changed since June, when I last checked.

There must be other keywords Not valid as well.

Some are really complicated like your make-makes.

 

Now is this wise? How about these?

make up            22

lots of make up     3

make up artist      3

no make up          2

heavy make up       2

make up woman       2

David Bowie make up 2

 

and lots more.

(all from AoA)

 

wim

 

I have a couple of pics of those 'You Are Here' tourist maps. Unfortunately 'you', 'are' and 'here' aren't picked up by the search engine - makes keywording a bit tricky.

And if you do a search (as some people have) for 'you are here map' or 'you are here sign', you just get hundreds of pictures of and maps and signs. Not great for customers.

Edited by Phil Robinson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Just for my experience in another agency.

There, it didnt matter the order of the keywords, actually they alway change them in alphabetical order, they use commas to separate the words, here I understand we use spaces and quotes means nothing.

By all means, there no words get ignored like the ones being ignored here, which in fact might be a good idea for words like, the words wiskerke checked.

But, there or here, the search engine is always a mistery and will always have some unexpected behaviour sometimes.

 

 

It's not true that "quotes mean nothing" when used in keywords (I assume that's what you mean, apologies if not) . . . I use quotation marks (aka quotes, inverted commas) to define multiple word phrases . . . and these complete phrases are therefore shown intact in the keywords (alphabetically listed of course).

 

For example: keywords on one of my images exactly as they were entered:

 

"australian flag" ashes, australia, australian "barmy army" competition, cricket, dustydingo, england "england versus australia" english "english flag" fans . . .

 

and how they appear: ashes, australia, australian, australian flag, barmy army, competition, cricket, dustydingo, england, england versus australia, english, english flag, fans,

 

I use quotes instead of just commas (   . . . ashes, australian, australian flag, barmy army, competition . . .  etc would achieve the same result) as I find it's easier to not inadvertently miss a phrase and have it appear as alphabetically arranged single words, and easier too to avoid missing a comma and having strange phrases crop up.

 

Using this system I'm always 100% confident that I know how my keywords will appear.

 

Edit: That does not mean I undestand some of the strange anomalies some searches appear to throw up of course, that truly is another kettle of fish, but the relationship between how I enter keywords and how they appear is consistent and no cause, for me, for alarm or confusion.

 

dd

Right on, dd. they all remain just how you meant them to.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Just for my experience in another agency.

There, it didnt matter the order of the keywords, actually they alway change them in alphabetical order, they use commas to separate the words, here I understand we use spaces and quotes means nothing.

By all means, there no words get ignored like the ones being ignored here, which in fact might be a good idea for words like, the words wiskerke checked.

But, there or here, the search engine is always a mistery and will always have some unexpected behaviour sometimes.

 

It's not true that "quotes mean nothing" when used in keywords (I assume that's what you mean, apologies if not) . . . I use quotation marks (aka quotes, inverted commas) to define multiple word phrases . . . and these complete phrases are therefore shown intact in the keywords (alphabetically listed of course).

 

For example: keywords on one of my images exactly as they were entered:

 

"australian flag" ashes, australia, australian "barmy army" competition, cricket, dustydingo, england "england versus australia" english "english flag" fans . . .

 

and how they appear: ashes, australia, australian, australian flag, barmy army, competition, cricket, dustydingo, england, england versus australia, english, english flag, fans,

 

I use quotes instead of just commas (   . . . ashes, australian, australian flag, barmy army, competition . . .  etc would achieve the same result) as I find it's easier to not inadvertently miss a phrase and have it appear as alphabetically arranged single words, and easier too to avoid missing a comma and having strange phrases crop up.

 

Using this system I'm always 100% confident that I know how my keywords will appear.

 

Edit: That does not mean I undestand some of the strange anomalies some searches appear to throw up of course, that truly is another kettle of fish, but the relationship between how I enter keywords and how they appear is consistent and no cause, for me, for alarm or confusion.

 

dd

Right on, dd. they all remain just how you meant them to.

 

 

Indubitably! :)

 

dd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.