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Essential / Main Keywords take too much time!


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Something I think about every time I drudge through a day of key-wording in Manage Images:

 

I keyword images BEFORE sending to Alamy as this makes a whole lot of sense for a lot of reasons. Keywording in Lightroom is a breeze, and is by far the quickest part of my workflow (proper captions and research take much longer!). I spend less than 30 seconds per image to keyword in Lightroom and then can send them to multiple agencies with all metadata (Location also!) in tact...

 

THEN, with Alamy, I must spend another 2-5 minutes PER image to move everything around and organize Essential and Main keywords from the full block of Comprehensive... Plus all the little tick boxes, enter location info (again!), etc, etc...

 

With declining revenues from Alamy and rising revenues from some other outlets I start to wonder just how much EXTRA time it's really worth to spend re-keywording in Manage Images. For a batch of 100-200 images I spend easily an entire day in Manage Images (some of you must undoubtedly do it much faster judging by your numbers!)- Whereas with other much higher grossing agencies, I upload and forget about it... the work is already done!!!

 

Any idea what effect leaving out Essential and Main keywords might have in terms of effort/return? Or just entering Essential keywords and leave everything else in comprehensive??? Anyone else out there who does this?

 

Just wasting some time here thinking out loud before returning to knock out the rest of this @$% batch!!! Could have finished another 4-5 images in the time I've typed this...  :huh:

 

-Jason

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I hear you Jason. I too add my keywords in Lightroom and then once images are uploaded here HATE having to effectively do the job again by splitting things up.

 

The images that are sent here are also sent elsewhere. That elsewhere doesn't require me to split the keywords into three groupings.

 

Can you imagine the problem though? Alamy have created this beast of a keywording system and if they suddenly stopped doing it what effect would it have on us? Could they just merge all three fields together or would it require us to have to go through everything again?

 

One of the microstock agenices does have along the lines of having the most important keywords at the top of the sort when they are imported. 

 

I can see both sides of the argument on this one. Our side and the fact that Alamy is trying to get the images that have been searched correctly placed.

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Jason, regarding all the check boxes, you may want to make better use of the batch process.  Select all images, drag down and fill in the location.  Again, select images with no people (for example) and annotate those in one go.

For the keywords, I just cut and paste my Comprehensive keywords into the Main box (usually less than 300 characters).  Pick 6-7 Essential keywords, starting with those in the Caption and you're done.

I agree it is a PITA. 

Still, you're ahead of me.  I wish I had a few other "higher grossing agencies".

Edited by Reimar
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Can you imagine the problem though? Alamy have created this beast of a keywording system and if they suddenly stopped doing it what effect would it have on us? Could they just merge all three fields together or would it require us to have to go through everything again? [...] I can see both sides of the argument on this one. Our side and the fact that Alamy is trying to get the images that have been searched correctly placed.

 

Yeah, but certainly Essential and Comprehensive would be enough! Would be so much easier and less time consuming... Other agencies don't seem to have this problem or have perhaps found a solution that does not place additional burden on contribs.

 

Jason, regarding all the check boxes, you may want to make better use of the batch process.  Select all images, drag down and fill in the location.  Again, select images with no people (for example) and annotate those in one go.

For the keywords, I just cut and paste my Comprehensive keywords into the Main box (usually less than 300 characters).  Pick 6-7 Essential keywords, starting with those in the Caption and you're done.

I agree it is a PITA. 

 

I use the batch as much as possible- Usually I do the entire batch marking everything the same (No people, no release, no property, no release, etc) then go back and change individually as necessary. Otherwise I inevitably end up missing something...

 

Essential keywords are not much of a problem... I usually have far more than 300 characters though, so I am left pulling a couple ESS keywords out, then pulling 300 characters more of Main keywords out from what's left and leaving the rest in COMP 

 

I can't slim down or make it any faster no matter how I try! Sometimes I can whisk through 20-30 images, and sometimes it just drags... but my average is 3-4min/image for the whole process for a batch of 100 from start to finish. Not the mention it's SO mentally draining! I need frequent breaks and my day feels so unproductive!

 

I feel really comfortable with keywording itself, and as I said in Lightroom it's SO easy- I just HATE manage images and the fact that what amounts to my lowest earning agency requires the extra hoops that others don't. So, more time = less money! Even more reason to be unhappy with 50/50 split or even worse the distributor split... Other agencies do more work so understandably take a bigger cut- OR IN COME CASES NOT!!!

 

-Jason

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I always put the essential keywords a the end of my list of keywords so when going into manage images I can just cut those and slap them into Essential. I have become very good at knowing when I have 50 characters.

 

I then just cut and paste the rest into Main. I'm down to about a minute per image if I have keyworded correctly. Have standard sets of keywords saved for certain types of pictures.  And I do batch process them all the same way as Jason and change where necessary.

 

Jill

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I always put the essential keywords a the end of my list of keywords so when going into manage images I can just cut those and slap them into Essential. I have become very good at knowing when I have 50 characters.

 

I then just cut and paste the rest into Main. I'm down to about a minute per image if I have keyworded correctly. Have standard sets of keywords saved for certain types of pictures.  And I do batch process them all the same way as Jason and change where necessary.

 

Jill

That's the way I keyword. Makes it all very quick.

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and thats why i use the alamy app in LR. Not perfect and still have to split but it is FAR easier to split and batch in it than the flash based manage images

 

Hi Julie-

Can you give a brief description of your workflow? How does this speed things up? I have looked at this option a number of times, but each time decided it was not worth it... Plus, I like to export JPEGS from Lightroom and give a final check at 100% in Photoshop and will sometimes adjust levels slightly, or catch a sneaky dust spot or two. From what I had understood from the FAQs on the plugin website, the images are exported directly Lightroom->Alamy? 

 

edit: Julie, found your workflow in another thread: http://discussion.alamy.com/index.php?/topic/2785-essential-keywords/?p=43322

 

---

 

In any case, I have finished this batch. Until next time! Just out of curiosity, I timed myself for the last 50 images, and at fairly breakneck speed with no breaks I averaged just over two minutes per image after all the tick boxes were ticked, and locations filled in; so JUST for rearranging keywords... Multiply by 200 images and this amounts to a considerable additional time investment for my lowest earning agency! Overall I think it comes to around 3 min per image, not including breaks, and my sanity just can't take much more than that!

 

Good news is this puts me finally over 3,000 images so I can open a bottle of Champagne now... And begin the next 3,000.

 

-Jason

 

 

PS>>>Jeff Greenberg (and all you other 5-digit-plus portfolio people): Just to make me feel bad, how long would you estimate to spend in MI on each batch of 100 images?!?

Edited by Reciprocity Images
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I always put the essential keywords a the end of my list of keywords so when going into manage images I can just cut those and slap them into Essential. I have become very good at knowing when I have 50 characters.

 

I then just cut and paste the rest into Main. I'm down to about a minute per image if I have keyworded correctly. Have standard sets of keywords saved for certain types of pictures.  And I do batch process them all the same way as Jason and change where necessary.

 

Jill

That's the way I keyword. Makes it all very quick.

 

 

Quick, sure- but don't you think you are leaving out a good number of relevant keywords in restricting to only 300 characters?

 

-Jason

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To be honest I can rarely think of much more than (say) 100 and I struggle at that! Probably why my sales are so crap.

Edited by ReeRay
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I rarely use all my characters as I find using obtuse unlikely keywords just brings me irrelevant views.  One could go insane trying to include every adjective and mood in every photo. Most searches are quite basic if you go over the past year of Alamy searches. 

 

I don't want to end up with a whole pile of non related views just so I can use up my 300 characters. 

 

Jill

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I use the cut and paste facility in new 2.4 batch saves a lot of time. You have some really great pics. Many are from a similar location and would lend themselves to this. At times I will build up the key wording progressively. i.e. first put in main details say Peru. Then subdivide by this up by town and then subdivide by location and then subdivide by subject. It works for me.

 

dov

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Jason:  You have described the situation perfectly.  Even following the method outlined by Reimar (which it sounds like you use too), my time is about the same as yours.  As for the suggestion of putting the most important keywords at the end, or even at the beginning, as far as I know you can't do that in Lightroom, since LTR automatically arranges all keywords in alphabetical order, with no way to indicate a preferred sequence based on priority.  This is the most onerous and tiresome aspect of putting images into the Alamy collection.  If they wanted to help photographers they would find a way to eliminate this three-tired keyword structure.  I did learn some years ago that there's no harm from duplication, so I save a few seconds by not bothering to delete the words in the comprehensive box when I'm moving words into the Essential or Main fields.

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Assembling the keywords in your preferred order in Lightroom has been discussed before and it is indeed possible to do this. What you need to do is ignore the "click here to add keywords" box and instead type directly into the larger box above this area. Your keywords will stay in the order you type or, indeed, can later be modified via cut and paste. This is what I do.

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I rarely use all my characters as I find using obtuse unlikely keywords just brings me irrelevant views [...] I don't want to end up with a whole pile of non related views just so I can use up my 300 characters. 

 

Jill

 

Not speaking of obtuse keywords and non-related views: Just a quick look at a number of your images; there are quite a number of keywords I can immediately think of to add that are relevant! 300 characters is nothing to fully describe a pic so that they can be found! Check keywording of G+C to see what I mean by 'relevant'.

 

Assembling the keywords in your preferred order in Lightroom has been discussed before and it is indeed possible to do this. What you need to do is ignore the "click here to add keywords" box and instead type directly into the larger box above this area. Your keywords will stay in the order you type or, indeed, can later be modified via cut and paste. This is what I do.

 

Just tried this... does not work for me though?  :huh: As soon as I click outside the box, or hit enter, the words rearrange alphabetically. Is there another setting somewhere I am missing? This would indeed be a huge time-saver for Alamy, though would require a bit more thought and a different keywording process than I am used to.

 

-Jason

Edited by Reciprocity Images
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Jason

 

Don't put any commas etc between the words. Alphabet recorded accurately

 

Thanks for that! Got it, but unfortunately that won't work for me either since I use Lightroom's keyword hierarchy, taking advantage of keyword sets, synonyms, suggestions, etc. Leaving out the commas forces input into one long keyword string. OK, for Alamy I guess, but doesn't work for anyone else (nor should it!). Once again, it comes down to having to change everything for one agency.

 

Still, I DO wish Lightroom could support custom keyword order!! Not sure why this couldn't be possible, though I assume it has to do with above (hierarchy and synonyms); ie, enter one keyword and all nested and synonym keywords are entered automatically... Would be totally neat to be able to drag and drop inside that window after they are entered to rearrange though!

 

Thanks,

Jason

 

lightroom_keywording_panel.jpg

Edited by Reciprocity Images
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